One-time UND/NDSU game

[VMeister]

When all the pissing and moaning is done, UND and NDSU will be playing football on a (semi?) regular basis. If both sides can look at the big picture, I think it can be played this year, a one-time agreement and work on the future later.

Here's my current assumptions:

1) UND and NDSU both have 10 games scheduled. Neither has a common open date. This leaves money on the table and makes both AD's look foolish.

2) If they don't find an 11th game by May 15, they're probably not going to. Everyone agree on that?

3) Let's say a Fargodome game grosses $400,000 less $75,000 expenses, $325,000 net. (Gate plus concessions, etc).

Important note: Let's not argue about money...just what sounds fair to me:

The first $25,000 goes to commissioning and producing a new trophy to replace the Nickel in the future.

The remaining is split 3 ways:

$100,000 to UND. More than they would get from staying home. Same as NDSU might pay to bring someone else in.

$100,000 to NDSU. At least as much as they'd get from playing an away FCS guaranty game, again more than not playing.

$100,000 to be applied to Coach Bohl's buyout. (I kid, Bisonville. NDSU keeps it and gets even further ahead of UND!).

Here's the part I need some backup on. (Hammersmith?)

Last year UND played Central Arkansas Thanksgiving weekend. The FCS playoffs started that day. There wasn't anything stopping the game except the playoffs, and neither was eligible. At least that's how I understood it. The Ivy League maybe also plays that weekend?

So here's the proposal:

1) If by May 15 neither team has an 11th game, the AD's sign an conditional agreement to play the day after Thanksgiving. Bison get in the playoffs, the game disappears. Bison getting in the playoffs would be the only way the game doesn't happen.

2) On Black Friday, the women go shopping at 5:00 a.m. The men start tailgating at 5:30 a.m. Some Bison run to Best Buy to "pick up a few things" (Sorry).

So assuming this would be allowed, who would have a (rational) argument against it? Both teams get 11th game, NDSU gets 6th home game, $100,000 for UND, $200,000 for NDSU, huge party (with economic activity) all weekend in Fargo. I'll even be nice to Lakesie (after he recovers from his breakdown).

Gene Taylor, Brian Faison: You're welcome.

[SiouxMD]

Answer Guy/VMeister

I have a question...

If the game is played on the same day that the 2010 FCS playoffs begin...can NDSU claim it as a home playoff game?

SiouxMD

[MplsBison]

When all the pissing and moaning is done, UND and NDSU will be playing football on a (semi?) regular basis. If both sides can look at the big picture, I think it can be played this year, a one-time agreement and work on the future later.

Here's my current assumptions:

1) UND and NDSU both have 10 games scheduled. Neither has a common open date. This leaves money on the table and makes both AD's look foolish.

2) If they don't find an 11th game by May 15, they're probably not going to. Everyone agree on that?

3) Let's say a Fargodome game grosses $400,000 less $75,000 expenses, $325,000 net. (Gate plus concessions, etc).

Important note: Let's not argue about money...just what sounds fair to me:

The first $25,000 goes to commissioning and producing a new trophy to replace the Nickel in the future.

The remaining is split 3 ways:

$100,000 to UND. More than they would get from staying home. Same as NDSU might pay to bring someone else in.

$100,000 to NDSU. At least as much as they'd get from playing an away FCS guaranty game, again more than not playing.

$100,000 to be applied to Coach Bohl's buyout. (I kid, Bisonville. NDSU keeps it and gets even further ahead of UND!).

Here's the part I need some backup on. (Hammersmith?)

Last year UND played Central Arkansas Thanksgiving weekend. The FCS playoffs started that day. There wasn't anything stopping the game except the playoffs, and neither was eligible. At least that's how I understood it. The Ivy League maybe also plays that weekend?

So here's the proposal:

1) If by May 15 neither team has an 11th game, the AD's sign an conditional agreement to play the day after Thanksgiving. Bison get in the playoffs, the game disappears. Bison getting in the playoffs would be the only way the game doesn't happen.

2) On Black Friday, the women go shopping at 5:00 a.m. The men start tailgating at 5:30 a.m. Some Bison run to Best Buy to "pick up a few things" (Sorry).

So assuming this would be allowed, who would have a (rational) argument against it? Both teams get 11th game, NDSU gets 6th home game, $100,000 for UND, $200,000 for NDSU, huge party (with economic activity) all weekend in Fargo. I'll even be nice to Lakesie (after he recovers from his breakdown).

Gene Taylor, Brian Faison: You're welcome.

Sorry, too reasonable.

Thanks for the idea though, I like it!

[WYOBISONMAN]

That is an interesting thought. I wonder if there is any MVFC rule prohibitng us from playing in a game during the playoffs? I have no clue, but the thought is indeed interesting. It would b a way to extend the season if there are no playoffs and another excuse to tailgate...... Personally I am not in favor of any regularly scheduled meeting between the two schools due to limited OOC options for us, but this scenario really has no impact on that.

[Hokahey]

Sorry, too reasonable.

Thanks for the idea though, I like it!

How about making it a charity game. Profits go to worthy cause, Substance Abuse Programs, Cancer, Childhood Diabetes Big Brothers/ Big Sisters whatever. Hard for either school to say no to a worthy cause. I know the Packers do it for a couple of their pre season games.Everybody wins, the schools, the fans, the people of North Dakota. Just a thought.

[gjw007]

How about making it a charity game. Profits go to worthy cause, Substance Abuse Programs, Cancer, Childhood Diabetes Big Brothers/ Big Sisters whatever. Hard for either school to say no to a worthy cause. I know the Packers do it for a couple of their pre season games.Everybody wins, the schools, the fans, the people of North Dakota. Just a thought.

Ah, too much pressure on the schools. It sounds like one-and-one every other year proposal should have been taken but it still doesn't answer how this helps NDSU's goal of 6 homes games as by default one game every other year is away. The idea of a game after the playoffs start with the teams that don't make the playoffs should be considerdc. I would add USD and SDSU in the mix as well (NDSU already plays SDSU and UND already plays USD) with the winner getting a new trophy as the Dakota Champion. Just a thought and with the games being charity games, everybody wins.

[summitfever]

how about und just move on, ndsu already has. thats the most novel concept. if und is so great, do it on your own like ndsu did without ndsu's help. cmon I dare ya.

[krangodance]

how about und just move on, ndsu already has. thats the most novel concept. if und is so great, do it on your own like ndsu did without ndsu's help. cmon I dare ya.

and herein lies the problem. too many bison viewing the game as a favor to und rather than an opportunity to revive one of the best football rivalries outside of fbs football.

call me naive, but i'm confident und football would thrive for decades to come without this game, but c'mon, this game was awesome when it existed and it would be awesome again.

[gjw007]

how about und just move on, ndsu already has. thats the most novel concept. if und is so great, do it on your own like ndsu did without ndsu's help. cmon I dare ya.

Seems like it already has to the same extent that NDSU has but that doesn't change the fact that the rivalry in football stopped when NDSU moved up and UND didn't and the NCAA rules penalized teams for playing in different divisions at the time. Being in the same division and after the end of the transition period, there is no real reason not to play other than arrogance (and both NDSU and UND fans have this in spades). UND does need to recognize that NDSU, given its conference affiliation, can't be as flexible as UND but that isn't to say it isn't in NDSU's advantage to play the game. If in doubt about this, think of the fundraisers and the donors and what they want. The early years of fund raising when the move up was new was easy but it gets harder to keep the momentum going as time goes by. Just a thought

[MplsBison]

and herein lies the problem. too many bison viewing the game as a favor to und rather than an opportunity to revive one of the best football rivalries outside of fbs football.

call me naive, but i'm confident und football would thrive for decades to come without this game, but c'mon, this game was awesome when it existed and it would be awesome again.

Please....don't mistake the crap you read on bville as representing the majority of NDSU alumni. They wish they did...but not even close.

Most NDSU alumni want the game back.

[DI IN FARGO]

Seems like it already has to the same extent that NDSU has but that doesn't change the fact that the rivalry in football stopped when NDSU moved up and UND didn't and the NCAA rules penalized teams for playing in different divisions at the time. Being in the same division and after the end of the transition period, there is no real reason not to play other than arrogance (and both NDSU and UND fans have this in spades). UND does need to recognize that NDSU, given its conference affiliation, can't be as flexible as UND but that isn't to say it isn't in NDSU's advantage to play the game. If in doubt about this, think of the fundraisers and the donors and what they want. The early years of fund raising when the move up was new was easy but it gets harder to keep the momentum going as time goes by. Just a thought

A thought that is way off the mark. Season ticket sales are steadily rising each year. Teammakers keeps setting fund raising records. That last part of your comment wasn't very well thought out.

[FargoBison]

Please....don't mistake the crap you read on bville as representing the majority of NDSU alumni. They wish they did...but not even close.

Most NDSU alumni want the game back.

There is a poll on Bisonville with 151 votes, 66% want the game back in some form, most as an every other year game.

[gjw007]

A thought that is way off the mark. Season ticket sales are steadily rising each year. Teammakers keeps setting fund raising records. That last part of your comment wasn't very well thought out.

You highlighted my point exactly. You have not been having any problem during the early years, the excitement level is still high and the move is still fresh It is still too early for the last part to play out but give it 10 or 15 years before this can be ruled correct or not but consider this, how many schools have made the jump in divisions, got a nice increase in fund raising when the jump was made, and then jumped back down in division because they could not sustain the necessary expenditures giving their ability to generate funds. While I'm not saying that it can't be sustained, only that it becomes harder as the excitement level plateaus. Certain games, rivalry games, have a highly sustained interest level year after year.

Personally I think UND and NDSU can reached a sustainable level but I'm not quite so sure about USD.

[DI IN FARGO]

You highlighted my point exactly. You have not been having any problem during the early years, the excitement level is still high and the move is still fresh It is still too early for the last part to play out but give it 10 or 15 years before this can be ruled correct or not but consider this, how many schools have made the jump in divisions, got a nice increase in fund raising when the jump was made, and then jumped back down in division because they could not sustain the necessary expenditures giving their ability to generate funds. While I'm not saying that it can't be sustained, only that it becomes harder as the excitement level plateaus. Certain games, rivalry games, have a highly sustained interest level year after year.

Personally I think UND and NDSU can reached a sustainable level but I'm not quite so sure about USD.

Thanks for not jumping down my throat because I didn't agree with you at first. I see where you are coming from but as you point out you just sort of contradicted yourself. You say at the end of this post you do think we can sustain it. I think no matter when it is during the transition or how long after raising funds takes the right kind of people to do it. I also think there are so many things outside of any schools control ie. the economy where those factors play a huge role. But given how NDSU has generated the funds all the while during a less than stellar last couple of years in football and with a bad economy I'm not worried about NDSU's long term sustainability at the DI level. I think the room for growth for NDSU is huge. It doesn't hurt that the FM area has weathered the downturn in the economy as it has. I just don't see the excitement level drop you reference being a problem either. Until UND finds a better conference home though I can see that being a problem for UND. I think the numbers in the stands at football and Basketball bear that out.

[Bison Dan]

You highlighted my point exactly. You have not been having any problem during the early years, the excitement level is still high and the move is still fresh It is still too early for the last part to play out but give it 10 or 15 years before this can be ruled correct or not but consider this, how many schools have made the jump in divisions, got a nice increase in fund raising when the jump was made, and then jumped back down in division because they could not sustain the necessary expenditures giving their ability to generate funds. While I'm not saying that it can't be sustained, only that it becomes harder as the excitement level plateaus. Certain games, rivalry games, have a highly sustained interest level year after year.

Personally I think UND and NDSU can reached a sustainable level but I'm not quite so sure about USD.

This next year UND has to win a BIG game. We had ours in FB with MN, Ball State and C.M. and BB wins against WI and Marquette. You have to have some big wins to keep the base energized.

[gjw007]

Thanks for not jumping down my throat because I didn't agree with you at first. I see where you are coming from but as you point out you just sort of contradicted yourself. You say at the end of this post you do think we can sustain it. I think no matter when it is during the transition or how long after raising funds takes the right kind of people to do it. I also think there are so many things outside of any schools control ie. the economy where those factors play a huge role. But given how NDSU has generated the funds all the while during a less than stellar last couple of years in football and with a bad economy I'm not worried about NDSU's long term sustainability at the DI level. I think the room for growth for NDSU is huge. It doesn't hurt that the FM area has weathered the downturn in the economy as it has. I just don't see the excitement level drop you reference being a problem either. Until UND finds a better conference home though I can see that being a problem for UND. I think the numbers in the stands at football and Basketball bear that out.

It's actually a hedge as I think that UND and NDSU can find a level that is sustainable but I think there will be more difficulty as time goes by. I think UND and NDSU both made a mistake by not going D1AA in the late 70's along with the Montana schools and Northern Iowa. And true, the Fargo area has grown tremendously from when I lived in Grand Forks so that market still has some potential given the growth rate that other areas don't have.