Interesting thought...

[Bisonfan1234]

LOL! Get this: the UND fans are complaining about a level playing field.

WHY then..do you schedule schools like Crookston and Newbury? LOL LOL LOL!!!

Sign the contract for 2 more years!!

Our "advantage" will take probably 4 years before it is in full affect.

[UND92,96]

I'm not saying that UND should or shouldn't play NDSU next year, but the difference between the schools you mention is that they choose to be in division II while not offering the maximum scholarships allowed, and/or choose to be in a conference that doesn't allow 36. They are, in effect, choosing to operate on a non-level playing field. If UND went I-AA but continued to offer 36 scholarships, then they would be choosing to be disadvantaged. But so long as UND is in dII, they shouldn't have to apologize for the fact that some of the teams they play are handicapping themselves by being in a division they probably don't belong.

[Bisonfan1234]

I'm not saying that UND should or shouldn't play NDSU next year, but the difference between the schools you mention is that they choose to be in division II while not offering the maximum scholarships allowed, and/or choose to be in a conference that doesn't allow 36. They are, in effect, choosing to operate on a non-level playing field. If UND went I-AA but continued to offer 36 scholarships, then they would be choosing to be disadvantaged. But so long as UND is in dII, they shouldn't have to apologize for the fact that some of the teams they play are handicapping themselves by being in a division they probably don't belong.

Right, so you're saying it's OK for UND to play schools that have less scholorships than you, but not OK to play schools with more scholorships than you.

What about this scenario: lets say NDSU decided to stay D2. Now lets say that UND is running low on money so instead of offering 36 scholorships they will only offer 32. NDSU still offers 36. So, if that were the case, you would still not play NDSU because it would be an un-level playing field?

[UND92,96]

Right, so you're saying it's OK for UND to play schools that have less scholorships than you, but not OK to play schools with more scholorships than you.

What about this scenario: lets say NDSU decided to stay D2. Now lets say that UND is running low on money so instead of offering 36 scholorships they will only offer 32. NDSU still offers 36. So, if that were the case, you would still not play NDSU because it would be an un-level playing field?

Debating you is really an exercise in futility. As I said, when both teams are in the same division, it's as close to a level playing field as you can get. If one team chooses not to be fully funded, that's their problem. When two teams are NOT in the same division, then the playing field is per se not level. To claim otherwise is essentially stating that there's no point in moving up in the first place. That's not to say that the lower-division team can't win on occasion, but when that does happen it doesn't speak very well for the team with the big scholarship advantange. Why don't we just boil all this down to as simple of terms as possible: you are bothered by the fact that NDSU has not done well at all against UND over the past decade. You very much want that trend to reverse. What better way than an extra 27 scholarships?

[PCM]

When will this silly arguement end? NDSU fans belittle UND for playing smaller, lesser-known schools, but then act is if the world's coming to an end when D-II UND refuses to play D-IAA NDSU.

Maybe I should point out the the mighty Bison, victors over the Montana Grizzlies, were on Saturday defeated by the Sioux, victors over UM-Crookston.

Who NDSU and UND have played and will play has nothing to do with whether the two schools should continue to play.

[Bisonfan1234]

[jimdahl]

UND IS CHOOSING NOT TO BE FULLY FUNDED!!! They could EASILY move up to D1AA as well, but they CHOOSE not to be.

What a ludicrous claim. NDSU chooses to change its classification, putting the two schools in different classifications; yet somehow in your twisted perception, its actually a choice by UND because they didn't simultaneously change their classification? Your anti-UND bias apparently does prevent any modicum of logical reasoning.

[Bisonfan1234]

What a ludicrous claim. NDSU chooses to change its classification, and in your twisted perception its actually a choice by UND because they didn't simultaneously change their classification? Your anti-UND bias apparently does prevent any modicum of logical reasoning.

Your hatred of UND apparently does prevent ANY modicum of logical reasoning.

I could say the same about any UND fan who actually believes the GF Herald's properganda that NDSU is at fault for ending the rivalry.

It is a choise by UND. Back when NDSU proposed a move to UND they checked into it (like all the other schools) and choose not to move up at the time being.

It doesn't really matter, D2 is a sinking ship that will soon merge with D3 and the D2 teams will wither join D1-AA or drown.

[jimdahl]

Let me try an analogy -- Bison fans seem to like using those to try to understand situations that confuse them. If Airmail's neighbor Jim moves to Russia, it's Jim's action that led them to no longer be neighbors; whereas you would claim that it's Airmail's fault that they're not neighbors anymore because Airmail chose not to move to Russia.

It was indisputably NDSU's decision to reclassify that caused NDSU to be in a different division from UND.

[Bleed Green]

Let me try an analogy -- Bison fans seem to like using those to try to understand situations that confuse them.  If Airmail's neighbor Jim moves to Russia, it's Jim's action that led them to longer be neighbors; whereas you would claim that it's Airmail's fault that they're not neighbors anymore because Airmail chose not to move to Russia.

It was indisputably NDSU's decision to reclassify that caused NDSU to be in a different division from UND.

I think even a Thundering Turd fan could understand that analogy

[CoteauRinkRat]

NDSU can spin it any way they want to, but in no way is this ball totally in UND's court, like Gene Taylor keeps telling the media.

Ever notice how every year Bison fans always say that UND has played a soft schedule and that their schedule has been the toughest played. They can keep thinking that................28-21!!!!!!!!

[BisonMav]

I don't really care who's fault it is.

I am just glad the Bison are moving to I-AA, and Divison I in all other sports.

The two schools should only play if they are both Divison II or both I-AA.

[redwing77]

I don't really care who's fault it is.

I am just glad the Bison are moving to I-AA, and Divison I in all other sports.

The two schools should only play if they are both Divison II or both I-AA.

Apparently the DIII Council feels the same way as you do. That's why they cut funding for scholarships for the schools who feature DI hockey or other sports and all the rest, DIII.

So, to that end, UND will NEVER EVER EVER go DIII with football even if DII goes the way of the Dodo. You need to realize that DII isn't all that screwed up. Look at the DIII Conference leadership committees.

So, yes, I think it is wise that NDSU is moving everything D I-AA instead of piecemealing it. However, it is a choice that NDSU made. Just because they made that decision shouldn't mean that everyone should follow suit.

Except for some bison fans that post here, would NDSU stand up to support UND's DI hockey program if it were put into jeopardy like Colorado College, RPI, and Clarkson (just to name 3 of the 6) have been since they are DIII schools with DI programs (We are a DII school with DI programs)?

What I'm saying is: It could be worse. Let's get over this finger-pointing about NDSU and UND's football division decision making. I think, so far, the only sane person in this argument has been PCM (Gee, what a shocker )

As for the schedule making, let's put it this way: NDSU goes D I-AA and plays the conference schedule as per the usual course. For its non conference and exhibition games, they bring in what you would call "real" opponents and not "cupcakes" like UMC. So in come Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, and let's just throw in Northern Illinois University for kicks. Now, that's a tough schedule. Especially since every exhibition and non conference opponent in that schedule will annihilate the Bison. UMC is scheduled to come here to play us because sometimes each team needs a "pickmeup" in the schedule to boost morale (or if the team comes in and beats us, a reality check). Every team in every sport will schedule cupcakes to play for that reason. You shouldn't be questioning UND for scheduling games with UMC. You should be questioning UMC for scheduling games with UND.

[BisonMav]

redwing77 Posted on Oct 19 2003, 06:45 PM

  Apparently the DIII Council feels the same way as you do. That's why they cut funding for scholarships for the schools who feature DI hockey or other sports and all the rest, DIII

I don't see anything wrong with a school having a NCAA classified non-major sport in Divison I, and the rest of the sports programs in a different level, ie DII or DIII. I was saying, I don't like a I-AA NDSU playing a DII UND. If NDSU moved back to DII or UND moved to I-AA, then they should renew the rivalry. IAA NDSU vs I-AA UND or DII NDSU vs DII UND.

As for the schedule making, let's put it this way: NDSU goes D I-AA and plays the conference schedule as per the usual course. For its non conference and exhibition games, they bring in what you would call "real" opponents and not "cupcakes" like UMC. So in come Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, and let's just throw in Northern Illinois University for kicks. Now, that's a tough schedule. Especially since every exhibition and non conference opponent in that schedule will annihilate the Bison.

If NDSU played a Big 10, Big 12 type team, it would be an away game. Divison IA teams usually pay I-AA schools for these games. Between $100,000 and $300,000, and I have heard higher. There are plenty of I-AA teams to play to fill a non-conference schedule, and the Bison would be competitive with them. It also will take the Bison 3-4 years to become eligible to play a I-A team.

[redwing77]

BisonMav,

It appears I misread your post. My apologies.

To reply to schedule making, alright. I see that this isn't an overnight change. Remember, I thought NDSU going D I-AA was a reasonable move (honestly, I didn't really think of the rivalry when I made up my opinion of the move, but even so I still support it). However, I am sure NDSU will play a D I-AA team or two that will be just as "cupcake" as UMC or Moorhead State. As for why it happens, I still stand by my reasoning.

BTW- I'd LOVE to watch a Bison-Gophers Football game.

[BisonMav]

redwing77 Posted on Oct 19 2003, 09:25 PM

However, I am sure NDSU will play a D I-AA team or two that will be just as "cupcake" as UMC or Moorhead State. As for why it happens, I still stand by my reasoning.

I am sure there are some cupcakes in I-AA too. St Marys, a possible member of the new I-AA Western Conference that is being talked about, is having trouble being competitive with anyone this year.

[bisonguy]

I think NDSU has St. Mary's on the schedule next year.

[Bisonfan1234]

Let me try an analogy -- Bison fans seem to like using those to try to understand situations that confuse them.  If Airmail's neighbor Jim moves to Russia, it's Jim's action that led them to longer be neighbors; whereas you would claim that it's Airmail's fault that they're not neighbors anymore because Airmail chose not to move to Russia.

It was indisputably NDSU's decision to reclassify that caused NDSU to be in a different division from UND.

Nice try.

Using your analogy, it is not required to be a "neighboor" to play each other. Just because one guy moves to russia and the other guy stays doesn't mean that they can't compete against each other. While it is true that in Russia allows you to give more scholorships to your player, that won't take affect for at least 4 years. Thus, a 2 year contract between them is perfectly fine (something that the russian guy's old neighboorhood would LOVE to see for 2 more years). Not only that, but the russian guy has offer the otehr guy a completely fair contract to play for 2 more years but the guy who stayed is so scared about the russian guy now that he's a russian...that he won't sign. He really is acting like a scared little boy.

[bisonguy]

Let me try an analogy -- Bison fans seem to like using those to try to understand situations that confuse them.  If Airmail's neighbor Jim moves to Russia, it's Jim's action that led them to longer be neighbors; whereas you would claim that it's Airmail's fault that they're not neighbors anymore because Airmail chose not to move to Russia.

It was indisputably NDSU's decision to reclassify that caused NDSU to be in a different division from UND.

At least Airmail's flowers could grow without nightly "watering" sessions.

[Bisonfan1234]

Very good point. I hadn't thought of it that way before, but it makes perfect sense. I don't know why UMC wants to keep getting their butts kicked every year.

The Sioux pay them to do so. They like playing schools that have less scholrships than they do, schools that (realistically) are in lower divisions than them.

[UND Fan]

PLEASE SEE MY COMMENTS UNDER RYAN BAKKEN AT 8:42 ON 10/20 AS THEY RELATE TO BISONFAN1234.

LET'S IGNORE HIM AND HE WILL GO AWAY....