Oil Booms in North Dakota

[Sioux>Bison]

20 minutes ago, Nodak78 said:

Obviously it’s used for a lot of consumer products as I’m not questioning that, but the question is how much will be turned into products here? If not consumed locally it will have to be shipped out to markets that use it and the cost of the rail transportation to the coasts is not cheap. It would be a different story if we started to make products right here in ND

[Nodak78]

1 hour ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Obviously it’s used for a lot of consumer products as I’m not questioning that, but the question is how much will be turned into products here? If not consumed locally it will have to be shipped out to markets that use it and the cost of the rail transportation to the coasts is not cheap. It would be a different story if we started to make products right here in ND

Same concept as wheat, Durum, Sunflowers, etc.  Value added.  opportunity.  UND best be gearing up to educate future employees for these plants companies.  

[ericpnelson]

The District 8 affair is a little more complicated than what may be portrayed outside the community. There are D8 voters that voted against this bond measure because they think it makes more sense for 8 to help fund expansion of the D1 high school instead of building a brand new one (+all associated admin, entire new school of teachers, etc...). There are definitely people who would prefer redrawing of district lines or some kind of combination of district 1 and 8. The school building situation here is a mess... and not easily summed up in a single post. I just didn't want people to draw conclusions on an inconclusive situation.

[Nodak78]

21 minutes ago, ericpnelson said:

The District 8 affair is a little more complicated than what may be portrayed outside the community. There are D8 voters that voted against this bond measure because they think it makes more sense for 8 to help fund expansion of the D1 high school instead of building a brand new one (+all associated admin, entire new school of teachers, etc...). There are definitely people who would prefer redrawing of district lines or some kind of combination of district 1 and 8. The school building situation here is a mess... and not easily summed up in a single post. I just didn't want people to draw conclusions on an inconclusive situation.

You are absolutely correct.

[SiouxVolley]

3 hours ago, ericpnelson said:

The District 8 affair is a little more complicated than what may be portrayed outside the community. There are D8 voters that voted against this bond measure because they think it makes more sense for 8 to help fund expansion of the D1 high school instead of building a brand new one (+all associated admin, entire new school of teachers, etc...). There are definitely people who would prefer redrawing of district lines or some kind of combination of district 1 and 8. The school building situation here is a mess... and not easily summed up in a single post. I just didn't want people to draw conclusions on an inconclusive situation.

Think D1 and D8 should have merged all along, but it’s getting late for that.

Eventually, the Williston City schools will have declining enrollment while D8 could grow for some time.  Even the new school locations are close to each other in different districts.  Having a merged district would allow school building growth to be smaller, instead of all at once by both districts (which both rejected).

Its just like Fargo-West Fargo, where some students could be best located at difference schools than where they are now.  Harwood could go to Fargo North, much of Eastern West Fargo to Fargo South, much of Horace to New Fargo HS, and that would leave West Fargo with two HS rather than three.

Williston will need two HS anyway even if the Districts merged.

[SiouxVolley]

5 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

Obviously it’s used for a lot of consumer products as I’m not questioning that, but the question is how much will be turned into products here? If not consumed locally it will have to be shipped out to markets that use it and the cost of the rail transportation to the coasts is not cheap. It would be a different story if we started to make products right here in ND

The costs of pipeline are not cheap and would run into the billions, especially since both ethane and ethylene are so cold as liquids.  Solids are so much easier to handle so a conversion to polyethylene to make resins is needed.  OneOK is already building a second line for NGLs to Kansas, but that wouldn’t include ethane, as those pipelines would be massively larger, insulated, and the pumps much larger.

Earlier, you stated that plastic production is so polluting.  That is not true for polyethylene, which pollutes less than nat gas electric generation.  Other plastic manufacturing are much more polluting, but those are mainly downstream.

The bankruptcy of Badlands NGL is probably a formality because Badlands owns all the rights to Continental Resouces’ ethane.  The progress might be closer that even I imagined and there is suddenly a barrage of info from elected officials.

A company financing a multi billion facility will not be a mom-pop outfit.

[Nodak78]

It is a mess.  Williston city District #1 will grow a huge amount in 5-6 years.

District #8 Williams county surrounding Williston is growing as well.

District #1 much higher tax base than district #8.  So the landowners don't want to combine for tax reasons.  The education believe there is a difference in quality of education between districts.

New people from other states new voters tell us other state pay for bldgs of schools.  I tell ND is different it is a local issue.  No computer.

Everyone in Williston says we give plenty to the state so help us.

A bill passed for Williston to get $3 million   it will go to help the High School.  It's a band aid.

Interesting time to say the least.

PS. Watford City and Ray both passed bond issues.  Dickinson no.  

[SiouxVolley]

4 hours ago, Nodak78 said:

Same concept as wheat, Durum, Sunflowers, etc.  Value added.  opportunity.  UND best be gearing up to educate future employees for these plants companies.  

UND already has the required branches of engineering, as chemical and mechanical would mostly be needed, of a ethane cracker.  Those student have gone out of state mostly to get fulfilling jobs.

 

[Nodak78]

3 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

The costs of pipeline are not cheap and would run into the billions, especially since both ethane and ethylene are so cold as liquids.  Solids are so much easier to handle so a conversion to polyethylene to make resins is needed.  OneOK is already building a second line for NGLs to Kansas, but that wouldn’t include ethane, as those pipelines would be massively larger, insulated, and the pumps much larger.

Earlier, you stated that plastic production is so polluting.  That is not true for polyethylene, which pollutes less than nat gas electric generation.  Other plastic manufacturing are much more polluting, but those are mainly downstream.

The bankruptcy of Badlands NGL is probably a formality because Badlands owns all the rights to Continental Resouces’ ethane.  The progress might be closer that even I imagined and there is suddenly a barrage of info from elected officials.

A company financing a multi billion facility will not be a mom-pop outfit.

There is too much ngl in ND.  A economical investment for huge companies to invest.  Profit to be made.

[Nodak78]

1 minute ago, SiouxVolley said:

UND already has the required branches of engineering, as chemical and mechanical would mostly be needed, of a ethane cracker.  Those student have gone out of state mostly to get fulfilling jobs.

 

Now an opportunity in ND.  Plus econ, acct, MGMT and sales.  UND over NDSU.  Just saying.

[SiouxVolley]

2 minutes ago, Nodak78 said:

There is too much ngl in ND.  A economical investment for huge companies to invest.  Profit to be made.

The ethane the Bakken produces/ well  is extraordinary. Texas and Pennsylvania/Ohio just have more Wells.  

And the Bakken produces more NGLs for decades, as oil production per well goes down rapidly.  The perfect case for building a cracker, so it wouldn’t soon be worthless.

[Nodak78]

The industry knows this

   Going to opens some eyes.

[Sioux>Bison]

5 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

The costs of pipeline are not cheap and would run into the billions, especially since both ethane and ethylene are so cold as liquids.  Solids are so much easier to handle so a conversion to polyethylene to make resins is needed.  OneOK is already building a second line for NGLs to Kansas, but that wouldn’t include ethane, as those pipelines would be massively larger, insulated, and the pumps much larger.

Earlier, you stated that plastic production is so polluting.  That is not true for polyethylene, which pollutes less than nat gas electric generation.  Other plastic manufacturing are much more polluting, but those are mainly downstream.

The bankruptcy of Badlands NGL is probably a formality because Badlands owns all the rights to Continental Resouces’ ethane.  The progress might be closer that even I imagined and there is suddenly a barrage of info from elected officials.

A company financing a multi billion facility will not be a mom-pop outfit.

I’m pretty sure the new Oneok pipeline will be transporting ethane with the rest of the NGLs so obviously new pipelines will be part of the solution to get ethane out of the state. Prices for ethane are also spiking at the hub in Texas so producers will want to ship their NGLs there to get the best price. Ethane isn’t trapped in ND, there just isn’t a market for it in the region so it is shipped out. Alliance pipeline also transports a considerable amount of ethane. Pipelines could be and currently are the sole solution to getting ethane out of the state. Pipelines are also the best way to transport goods as dealing with solid plastic pellets on train cars is so inefficient. These big plastic plants are located on the coast so that they can be shipped overseas on ships.

[Sioux>Bison]

5 hours ago, Nodak78 said:

Now an opportunity in ND.  Plus econ, acct, MGMT and sales.  UND over NDSU.  Just saying.

You guys are talking about a small portion of the jobs that will be needed for a plant. Most of these are  upper level jobs or management (typically engineers and not business majors...) The majority of the jobs will be the operators that need to be highly knowledgeable and trained. Trying to recruit those people to ND will be difficult.  

[SiouxVolley]

7 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

I’m pretty sure the new Oneok pipeline will be transporting ethane with the rest of the NGLs so obviously new pipelines will be part of the solution to get ethane out of the state. Prices for ethane are also spiking at the hub in Texas so producers will want to ship their NGLs there to get the best price. Ethane isn’t trapped in ND, there just isn’t a market for it in the region so it is shipped out. Alliance pipeline also transports a considerable amount of ethane. Pipelines could be and currently are the sole solution to getting ethane out of the state. Pipelines are also the best way to transport goods as dealing with solid plastic pellets on train cars is so inefficient. These big plastic plants are located on the coast so that they can be shipped overseas on ships.

You're wrong.  OneOK hasn't put in ethane recovery for its own ng plants yet.  Their NG plants stick the ethane with the NG goes and calls it a day,  but that can't continue forever as the NG will have to high a combustion value for consumers, making all the Nat gas from ND unusable. 

OneOK has tentative plans for ethane separation, but just needs a local user.  Shipping ethane via pipeline to Texas is just too expensive for the price received so its not worth it.  Propane and higher C’s are a different story.

Try again when you get educated.

[SiouxVolley]

2 hours ago, Sioux>Bison said:

You guys are talking about a small portion of the jobs that will be needed for a plant. Most of these are  upper level jobs or management (typically engineers and not business majors...) The majority of the jobs will be the operators that need to be highly knowledgeable and trained. Trying to recruit those people to ND will be difficult.  

NG gas plant operators would get a promotion and raise.  This isn't rocket science.  Have known tons of operators in the South and most of them could do the job without a college degree as they understand mechanics and fluids.  Even operating a drilling rig, one can't be stupid if one values his own life.

The engineers are responsible for giving safe ranges to operate in, operating procedures and quality.

[UNDBIZ]

6 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

You're wrong.  OneOK hasn't put in ethane recovery for its own ng plants yet.  Their NG plants stick the ethane with the NG goes and calls it a day,  but that can't continue forever as the NG will have to high a combustion value for consumers, making all the Nat gas from ND unusable. 

OneOK has tentative plans for ethane separation, but just needs a local user.  Shipping ethane via pipeline to Texas is just too expensive for the price received so its not worth it.  Propane and higher C’s are a different story.

Try again when you get educated.

This discussion was quite civil and interesting to read (for someone not involved in the energy business).  Please keep it that way.  The parting personal shot at the end was completely unnecessary.

 

[SiouxVolley]

Someone to claim that OneOK's Nat gas plants in ND separate ethane now is simply uneducated.

Simply reading OneOK's quarterlies would educate them.

[Sioux>Bison]

3 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Someone to claim that OneOK's Nat gas plants in ND separate ethane now is simply uneducated.

Simply reading OneOK's quarterlies would educate them.

They ship y-grade NGLs which contains considerable amounts of ethane in the mixed NGL stream. Yes they don’t separate ethane into a pure stream, but their pipelines are shipping ethane to KS and the gulf coast everyday as a y-grade product. Check out their tarriff if you don’t believe me.

Im sorry you can’t handle being wrong. 

[SiouxVolley]

1 hour ago, Sioux>Bison said:

They ship y-grade NGLs which contains considerable amounts of ethane in the mixed NGL stream. Yes they don’t separate ethane into a pure stream, but their pipelines are shipping ethane to KS and the gulf coast everyday as a y-grade product. Check out their tarriff if you don’t believe me.

Im sorry you can’t handle being wrong. 

You have flunked Y-grade NGL science.  OneOK’s Y-grade NGL’s from the Bakken don’t have appreciable ethane in them because OneOK doesn’t have cryogenic units in their natural gas plants  to get cold enough to remove ethane.  Ethane must see below -127 F before it separates out as a liquid..  Hess does have cryogenic units.  OneOk nat gas plants in Texas and Oklahoma have those units so it’s a different Y-grade.

You are simply not worth the time to talk about it because you simply don’t know enough.

But pretend that you’re an expert here.  I’m not even in the industry, but have followed OneOK and Hess and Targa  for investment reasons.

[NeutralObserver]

On 5/15/2019 at 11:46 PM, Sioux>Bison said:

You guys are talking about a small portion of the jobs that will be needed for a plant. Most of these are  upper level jobs or management (typically engineers and not business majors...) The majority of the jobs will be the operators that need to be highly knowledgeable and trained. Trying to recruit those people to ND will be difficult.  

That is where Bismarck State comes in. They have people from all over the country and even outside the country going there to attend their energy programs.  My daughter's boyfriend came up here from Texas, had an internship in Tioga last summer, and got a job at the Marathon refinery near South Heart lined up before he even graduated.  He's starting at $36 an hour. He has other friends that came from out of state and are staying to start their careers.  

[Nodak78]

1 hour ago, NeutralObserver said:

That is where Bismarck State comes in. They have people from all over the country and even outside the country going there to attend their energy programs.  My daughter's boyfriend came up here from Texas, had an internship in Tioga last summer, and got a job at the Marathon refinery near South Heart lined up before he even graduated.  He's starting at $36 an hour. He has other friends that came from out of state and are staying to start their careers.  

Better yet Williston State College.  

[SiouxVolley]

Tioga is getting excited about a plastics plant:

https://www.journaltrib.com/articles/tribune-news/plastics-plant-could-bring-200-jobs/

There are underground caverns between Tioga and Stanley where the ethane can be stored.

The construction phase would be massive and would be lead by Bakken Midstream.

This link might be more accessible:

https://www.journaltrib.com/articles/journal-news/plastics-plant-could-bring-200-jobs-to-tioga/

[SiouxVolley]

BakkenMidstream.com is the company that wants to build that ethane factory.  They have a select group as executives, including a Canadien, who helped build up the Alberta petrochemical industry, and a native of Stanley ND serving for legal and presumably PR advice.  That group also includes people that have tapped into investment bankers.  The company was just started this year.

[SiouxVolley]

McKenzie County now produces more oil than any other county in the USA.  The Permian Basin produces much more oil than the Bakken, but those counties tend to be much smaller.

https://www.kvia.com/news/new-mexico/report-2-new-mexico-counties-among-top-oil-producers-in-us/1079453769