Denver being forced out of Sun Belt Conference

[star2city]

Long-rumored, it is a reality:

DU Clarion: Denver in search of a new conference

The talk of changing conferences has been going on now for a few seasons but finally became a true reality when the SBC came out with a Wyatt Committee report.

The first point of the membership standards where that all member institutions had to sponsor a minimum of 15 sports that the conference offers a championship and that Denver and New Orleans were given a five-year grace period to reach the standard. Thus meaning that DU has until 2012-13 to find itself a new conference to join.

"What would make us attractive to other conferences? Certainly I would love to be in a conference that has like minded institutions that include our academic profile and geographic profile," said Bradley-Doppes.

Conferences that Bradley-Doppes mentioned that are currently on Denver's radar are the West Coast Conference, Mountain West Conference, Western Athletic Conference, Missouri Valley Conference and Big Sky Conference.

Denver would need to add five new sports to meet the 15 Sun Belt-sponsored sports requirement.

Here's the Sun Belt's Wyatt Report: Sun Belt Raises Academic and Athletic Expectations

New Sun Belt Membership Standards

1. Member institutions are expected to sponsor a minimum of fifteen (15) sports in which the conference offers a championship. There shall be a five-year (2012-2013) grace period for UNO and Denver to reach this standard.

2. Institutions considering candidates for head coaching positions in core sports shall insure that there is a diverse pool of candidates considered for the position.

3. Any future members must sponsor IA football, men

[Hammersmith]

WCC: <5% chance; If the WCC isn't interested in Seattle(a fellow Jesuit school), I doubt they'd accept the travel to Colorado for a secular college.

BSC: <1% chance; It's a Big Sky mandate that all schools participate in all sports. Denver doesn't have any running teams in addition to no football.

MVC: <0%; No way the Valley will look at a school as far away as Denver with a sub-250 MBB RPI.

WAC: 25%; Matchup in sports is pretty poor, but possible.

MWC: 35%; Decent, though not perfect, matchup in sports. DU is in the ballpark of what they like academically(strong grad programs; though DU is a bit small).

Independent: 35%; It's not who you want to join that matters, it's who's willing to have you(we're all familiar with that).

[GeauxSioux]

Somebody better tell the Sunbelt folks it isn't I-AA anymore.

Schools may not play more than one I-AA opponent each year and that must be at home.

I vote that Dave K tell them.

[bincitysioux]

BSC: <1% chance; It's a Big Sky mandate that all schools participate in all sports. Denver doesn't have any running teams in addition to no football.

I think they may have a little bit better chance than that for the Big Sky. The A.D.'s of the Big Sky are unhappy with having just 9 teams, although ideal for football, it is a headache for travel for all the other sports. I listened to a radio interview of Doug Fullerton this winter where he mentioned that they have at least discussed the possibility of adding a non-football member in order to balance things out. And we all know the Big Sky's thirst for adding small schools from huge markets. I'd think that DU is right up their alley.

I think that the Big Sky along with the WAC would be the two most likely possiblities. Agree about the WCC. Denver probably wants in that conference the most, but Seattle will be eligible by the time Denver has to leave the Sunbelt, and I'm of the opinion that the biggest reason the WCC refused to add Seattle last fall was because of their transitional status and that they will revisit the issue once SU nears the end of the transition.

Here's a related question: Would Louisiana Tech try to leave the WAC for the spot vacated by Denver in the Sunbelt?

[Hammersmith]

I could almost see the Big Sky working if DU had CC & T&F, but without those DU only sponsors 7 of the 14 BSC sports. On top of that, it would leave DU with 10 non-BSC sports. The WAC would be 11 of 20, and the MWC would be 12 of 21. Regardless, DU has such a wierd collection of sports that they'll always be members of a variety of conferences.

The reason I think the chance of the BSC is so low is because I seem to remember the conference forcing one of the western schools to add a sport a couple years back(tennis at Sac or PSU, I think). I doubt those schools would feel charitable towards a newcomer not sponsoring half the conference's sports.

Assuming New Orleans is also kicked out of the Sun Belt, LA Tech does seem like it would be a good fit for everyone involved. I suppose there might be other factors I'm not aware of, but I would think LA Tech would jump at the chance to greatly reduce its travel costs. On a side note, how is New Orleans even a DI school? By my count, they only have 8 out of a required 14 sports(adding a 9th next year). Did Katrina force them to drop sports or something?

[MplsBison]

DU should drop to DIII and join Colorado College in that conference.

They could play up in m/w ice hockey and would still be able to participate in the singular NCAA skiing championship.

They could even bring back football and restart the DU/CC rivalry.

[MplsBison]

By my count, they only have 8 out of a required 14 sports(adding a 9th next year). Did Katrina force them to drop sports or something?

Tulane only had 6 sports after Katrina.

I think they are slowly adding them back.

No on in the NCAA dare has the balls to call them out on not having the required 16 sports (14 for UNO) yet. Maybe in 5-10 years if they still aren't back up there.

[MplsBison]

So the Sun Belt is now down to (assuming that DU and UNO are gone):

Ark State football

Ark Little Rock no football

FAU fball

FIU fball

LA Laf fball

LA Mon fball

Middle Tenn fball

Western KY fball

South Ala adding fball

Troy fball

North TX fball

Looks like they could easily add TX State when they move up to FBS in the next couple of years and have a perfect balence of odd number of fball teams and even number of travel partner non football teams.

Doubt that LA Tech wants to reduce travel costs.

Look at WAC football last couple of years. All you have to do is win the conference and go unbeaten and you get to play in a BCS bowl.

[star2city]

WCC: <5% chance; If the WCC isn't interested in Seattle(a fellow Jesuit school), I doubt they'd accept the travel to Colorado for a secular college.

BSC: <1% chance; It's a Big Sky mandate that all schools participate in all sports. Denver doesn't have any running teams in addition to no football.

MVC: <0%; No way the Valley will look at a school as far away as Denver with a sub-250 MBB RPI.

WAC: 25%; Matchup in sports is pretty poor, but possible.

MWC: 35%; Decent, though not perfect, matchup in sports. DU is in the ballpark of what they like academically(strong grad programs; though DU is a bit small).

Independent: 35%; It's not who you want to join that matters, it's who's willing to have you(we're all familiar with that).

Have to comment.

WCC <10%: Agree with bincity that Seattle may still get in the WCC once their transition is over. But the second school the WCC may pick is Pacific, not Denver, as Pacific has a good basketball tradition. Then again, the WCC may be the most stable conference othe than the Ivy, so it doesn't need anyone else to share NCAA dollars.

BSC: 50%, As bincity mentioned, Fullerton has actively talked with Denver in the past (both on radio and on print) and basically offered them a position. If the BSC is going to make an exemption for a non-football school, it might as well make an exemption for a number of lesser sports. A 10 basketball/9 football scheduling arrangement is perfect. Southern Utah is attempting to position itself for a bid by adding all Big Sky sports, by they'll run into vehement opposition from the Montana schools.

MVC: < 2 % If Denver can get its RPI up in the next year or two, the private schools like Drake, Bradley, and Creighton would be interested. The MVC really wants schools like St Louis (which is eyeing a Big East split) or Butler. A Denver/UMKC addition, if both get their RPIs up, would really add to the MVC's television contract.

WAC: 10% WAC commissioner Benson has already brought up the 10/9 model (with Denver, or a Gonzaga, or a So Cal school like UC-Irvine or Pepperdine). Denver's RPI hurt their chances.

MWC: <1% The MWC is already loaded with Front Range schools (AFA, CSU, Wyo), so adding Denver wouldn't add anything media-wise. The MWC is attempting to become a BCS conference so it's targeting football schools like UTEP, Houston, (to partner with TCU) or Fresno St. Boise St is actively lobbying the MWC.

Summit: 25% Although this wasn't a preferred conference, if worse came to worse, the Summit would almost instantly grant Denver membership. Denver's a core member and the Summit has to protect itself.

Independent: <2% Denver's shooting for higher than the Big Sky and Summit, but one of those two would almost certainly embrace it.

[star2city]

Here's a related question: Would Louisiana Tech try to leave the WAC for the spot vacated by Denver in the Sunbelt?

La Tech leaving the Sun Belt caused a lot of bad blood (Sun Belt football was in its infancy). When CUSA chose Rice, SMU, and Tulsa from the WAC and then UTEP over La Tech for it's 12th member, La Tech was left as an island in the east. La Tech is holding out for CUSA, hoping that one or more of Memphis, ECU, and UCF go to the Big East. The SunBelt is likely actively discussing membership with schools like Georgia State, Georgia Southern, UT-San Antonio, and Texas State, all who have ambitions of IA football.

[star2city]

On a side note, how is New Orleans even a DI school? By my count, they only have 8 out of a required 14 sports(adding a 9th next year). Did Katrina force them to drop sports or something?

Following Katrina, the NCAA gave Tulane and New Orleans multi-year exemptions to get back to the required number of sports.

[FargoBison]

I'd love for the Summit to kick Centenary out and add Denver, UND, and USD. It would make for a much better conference and in my mind it would put the league in a better long term position.

West

NDSU-UND

SDSU-USD

SUU-Denver

East

ORU-UMKC

IPFW-WIU

IUPUI-Oakland

[MplsBison]

I'll take Denver and Chicago State over SUU and Cent.

But I doubt Denver ever comes to the Summit.

[dakotadan]

I'd love for the Summit to kick Centenary out and add Denver, UND, and USD. It would make for a much better conference and in my mind it would put the league in a better long term position.

West

NDSU-UND

SDSU-USD

SUU-Denver

East

ORU-UMKC

IPFW-WIU

IUPUI-Oakland

That actually would be a decent 12 team conference. The partners work out pretty well. Denver would help bridge SUU to the conference creating a better conference footprint. There are some football connections; 3 Gateway, 3 Great West. And Denver's status as a Core member would be very appealing to the Summit.

I'd be happy with UND playing in a conference that included the cities of Denver, Kansas City and Indianapolis.

[star2city]

I'd love for the Summit to kick Centenary out and add Denver, UND, and USD. It would make for a much better conference and in my mind it would put the league in a better long term position.

West

NDSU-UND

SDSU-USD

SUU-Denver

East

ORU-UMKC

IPFW-WIU

IUPUI-Oakland

Centenary Basketball close to post-season ban ...

This year among the BCS programs, only Colorado and USC were placed on public notice that their historical profile is lagging. Should their poor APR scores (<900) continue another year, then the Buffs and Trojans could face a scholarship and/or practice time reduction in the 2009-10 season. As an example of what not to do, the basketball programs at New Mexico St., Centenary and East Carolina are already one year away from facing a postseason ban based on three consecutive years of failing scores on the APR.

... or even banishment from DI men's basketball competition

Teams that fail to achieve an APR score of 900 in three consecutive seasons could be banned from the postseason, and a fourth consecutive offense could result in banishment from Division I competition.

Centenary did hire a DI assistant coach (who happens to be from Louisiana) after interviewing NAIA and high school coaches. They also just signed their first two recruits (JUCO) and need more players after one transferred to LSU-Shreveport. A DIII decision may still be possible.

[star2city]

I'll take Denver and Chicago State over SUU and Cent.

If both leave, the Summit loses an autobid based on lack of core membership continuity.

But I doubt Denver ever comes to the Summit.

Didn't you and other Bison fans say they'd never leave the Sun Belt?

[star2city]

UTPA AD resigns

The UTPA AD wasn't even a finalist for the UND AD position. Why would someone with Brian Faisson's experience accept the UND AD job if conference affiliation for UND wasn't likely?

Is the Summit going to take in UTPA?

Street's credited with several advancements over the past three years, including helping create the United Baseball Conference, a scheduling alliance with other Division I independents, and getting the Broncs' Hall of Fame off the ground.

There are also several ongoing challenges, not the least of which are conference affiliation - which he listed as a priority during his introductory news conference three years ago - and funding.

The athletic department couldn't afford to complete a media guide for the baseball team this season and turnout for the few home games at the school has been low. Less than 80 fans filled the stands before the Broncs' first game Thursday in the National Independent Tournament.

Street said he would continue working on those areas through Aug. 31. He hinted at having a lead on a possible conference affiliation but wouldn't say with which one or when that might happen.

"Again, it's too premature to talk about conference affiliation, those types of things," Street said. "I don't want to damage anything we have going on. What I've learned is saying more sometimes hurts the whole process."

Street was the ninth director of athletics at UTPA. Prior to joining the Broncs, he spent seven years with the University of Texas-San Antonio. He applied for the vacant University of North Dakota athletic director's job back in February, but said he currently has nothing lined up.

[star2city]

That actually would be a decent 12 team conference. The partners work out pretty well. Denver would help bridge SUU to the conference creating a better conference footprint. There are some football connections; 3 Gateway, 3 Great West. And Denver's status as a Core member would be very appealing to the Summit.

I'd be happy with UND playing in a conference that included the cities of Denver, Kansas City and Indianapolis.

For alumni and student recruiting purposes, I like this 12 basketball/10 football arrangement better (gives football the same rivalries as other sports):

Denver/UNC (easy drive)

Weber St/Idaho State (not difficult drive)

UND/Montana State (requires flight through MSP)

Montana/EWash (not difficult drive)

Seattle/Portland St (not difficult drive)

Sac St/NAU (more difficult than UND/MSU connection)

All the Sky would be pleased with Denver, the West Coast schools and Denver would love Seattle (and its academics), and Montana/Colorado schools would be pleased with UND. Basketball could actually play 22 conference games, helping minimizing scheduling issues. Football would still be one division of ten teams. The conference basketball tournament could be in Denver, Ogden, Seattle (Supersonics likely leaving), or even Phoenix.

It would hellp reconnect UND alumni in Denver, Phoenix, Seattle, and California and help with recruiting substantially. It wouldn't be great for locals or for travel, but DI is mostly plane trips anywhere. USD, SDSU, and NDSU could be played non-conference.

[FargoBison]

UTPA AD resigns

The UTPA AD wasn't even a finalist for the UND AD position. Why would someone with Brian Faisson's experience accept the UND AD job if conference affiliation for UND wasn't likely?

Is the Summit going to take in UTPA?

UTPA is not going to the Summit, members are having enough troubles with travel the way it is. Whoever gets added will need to help ease travel and be within the conference's footprint.

[Hammersmith]

If both leave, the Summit loses an autobid based on lack of core membership continuity.

Not quite. The two year grace period would almost surely be enough to keep the autobid until IPFW started counting. I think the window has passed for any changes to the Summit for next year, and it's also very unlikely that both schools would leave in 2009-10. I suppose it's theoretically possible for the Summit to lose its autobid, but I think the MVC accepting DU has a better chance of happening. I also doubt the Big Sky will make any decisions until after word comes out on what changes will be made to the FBS requirements. If Montana and Montana State are locked into the BSC for many years due to those changes, the conference will likely grow in a different direction than if there's a good chance of them bolting to the FBS at the first opportunity.

For now, I'm going to stand by assertion than DU is not Big Sky bound. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I think DU is headed for several years as an independent. In the west, I think the MWC's decision whether or not to accept Boise State will be the lynch pin for everything else.

[MplsBison]

Didn't you and other Bison fans say they'd never leave the Sun Belt?

I've always said that Denver should get out of the Sun Belt.

I've been advocating them going DIII for some time. As I said, they can continue participating in the sole NCAA skiing championship and they can play up to DI ice hockey, just like CC does.

[MplsBison]

For alumni and student recruiting purposes, I like this 12 basketball/10 football arrangement better (gives football the same rivalries as other sports):

Denver/UNC (easy drive)

Weber St/Idaho State (not difficult drive)

UND/Montana State (requires flight through MSP)

Montana/EWash (not difficult drive)

Seattle/Portland St (not difficult drive)

Sac St/NAU (more difficult than UND/MSU connection)

All the Sky would be pleased with Denver, the West Coast schools and Denver would love Seattle (and its academics), and Montana/Colorado schools would be pleased with UND. Basketball could actually play 22 conference games, helping minimizing scheduling issues. Football would still be one division of ten teams. The conference basketball tournament could be in Denver, Ogden, Seattle (Supersonics likely leaving), or even Phoenix.

It would hellp reconnect UND alumni in Denver, Phoenix, Seattle, and California and help with recruiting substantially. It wouldn't be great for locals or for travel, but DI is mostly plane trips anywhere. USD, SDSU, and NDSU could be played non-conference.

Big Sky will never expand to the Dakotas.

The rest of the conference could give a sh*t what the Montana schools want.

Montana schools are gearing up for a WAC jump anyway. Probably won't be in the Big Sky after 10 years.

Without the Montana schools, there is zero incentive for any Dakota school to join. You're a lier if you say playing schools like Northern Colorado, Weber State and Portland State is better for UND than playing NDSU, SDSU, etc.

[star2city]

UTPA is not going to the Summit, members are having enough troubles with travel the way it is. Whoever gets added will need to help ease travel and be within the conference's footprint.

I agree that UTPA's best shot is with the Southland when/if Texas St or UT-San Antonio go IA in football. But if worst comes to worst (SUU and Centenary leave), UTPA and Chicago State are the onlly ones out there .

[star2city]

Not quite. The two year grace period would almost surely be enough to keep the autobid until IPFW started counting. I think the window has passed for any changes to the Summit for next year, and it's also very unlikely that both schools would leave in 2009-10. I suppose it's theoretically possible for the Summit to lose its autobid, but I think the MVC accepting DU has a better chance of happening.

With the two-year grace period, the Summit is probably O.K. Even if Centenary drops to DII, it has to give a year notice.

I also doubt the Big Sky will make any decisions until after word comes out on what changes will be made to the FBS requirements. If Montana and Montana State are locked into the BSC for many years due to those changes, the conference will likely grow in a different direction than if there's a good chance of them bolting to the FBS at the first opportunity.

Because schools in the Big Sky could move to IA/WAC in 2012, the ones potentially left behind have an incentive to add more schools now to keep the conference viable. Only SUU and Denver (which are practically mutually incompatible) help with core membership.

For now, I'm going to stand by assertion than DU is not Big Sky bound. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I think DU is headed for several years as an independent. In the west, I think the MWC's decision whether or not to accept Boise State will be the lynch pin for everything else.

BYU and Utah are kind of the academic snobs of the MWC and look down at BSU's community college roots of 40+ years ago. BYU especially has a big fan base in Southern (mostly SE) Idaho and they don't want to help out Boise State. The MWC added TCU because of Texas recruiting grounds (and DFW media), and TCU has an expectation that another Texas school will be added. If Boiise St gets in, the MWC would almost have to go to 12 schools to keep TCU from leaving.

[star2city]

I've been advocating them going DIII for some time. As I said, they can continue participating in the sole NCAA skiing championship and they can play up to DI ice hockey, just like CC does.

If Denver dropped to DIII, they would no longer be able to offer hockey scholarships, which would practically destroy their program. CC's scholarship rights (as well as Clarkson, RPI, etc and Johns Hopkins in lacrosse) have been grandfathered into the DIII constitution. No other schools automatically get this privilege unless DIII votes on it. Besides, what about Denver's top 10 DI lacrosse program.