Anti-Semitism at UND

[sioux7>5]

Sounds to me like you're putting the victim on trial rather than the perps. Why? I get the feeling you attitude is the same as UND's, make the victim prove he was terrorized rather than have the perps prove they are innocent. Another blackeye for UND. I am a UND grad and I always wanted m kids to go to UND for college but incidents like these and the nickname issue have changed my mind. I can't stop them from going there but I certainly won't encourage them. Go ahead, let the potshots begin! I put on my mental kevlar.

OK Fourwinds I have a question for you. Then where will your kids going to go to school at? There are idiots no matter where you go in life. I think this nothing to do with UND as a whole and nothing to do with the nickname. You are looking for reasons not to like UND anymore, that is fine it is your right. But everything that you post is negative. You have a degree from a great school, that is great. My point is if you look for negatives you will find them anywhere you look. I am sure at UTTC there are negatives too.

[fourwindsboy]

OK Fourwinds I have a question for you. Then where will your kids going to go to school at? There are idiots no matter where you go in life. I think this nothing to do with UND as a whole and nothing to do with the nickname. You are looking for reasons not to like UND anymore, that is fine it is your right. But everything that you post is negative. You have a degree from a great school, that is great. My point is if you look for negatives you will find them anywhere you look. I am sure at UTTC there are negatives too.

Yes there are negatives everywhere but UND seems to be dragging its feet on one of the major issues of our country and that is racism. A major university like UND needs to be a positive force and not tolerate incidence like these but their reaction has been poor at best. I actually feel bad for my alma mater.

[Sal Atticum]

In a letter to UND administrators, Weinstein linked the West Hall and Noren Hall swastikas with the Gamma Phi Indian party, suggesting that the UND administration had compromised its moral authority by defending for so long the school

[Sal Atticum]

Even if RE had Nazi parties (which, if proved, is abhorrent conduct), the reflection is on him and not UND. How about Obama accepting money from the terroist that came (or is he yet to come?) to UND? How about Obama going to church and listening to racist vitriol for 20 years? I guess Obama is responsible for the conduct of his pastor and the conduct of that rube who has appeared, or is going to appear, at UND. Obama is not responsible for the conduct of idiots who have expressed support for him. Neither is UND responsible for idiotic conduct by RE.

You got this part right.

For the record, Bill Ayers (if that is the "terroist" [sic] to whom you are referring) already came in early April. He gave an interesting and informative talk.

[sioux7>5]

Ok I think people are making way to big of deal of UND is doing or is not doing. Some people are just aholes and that is all there is to it. I do not think that this makes UND some bad school as Fourwinds states, or they are dragging their feet. Maybe they are doing a lot more then you know. What should be the proper response be? Should they close campus and interview every student. Should everyone over react, just relax and let them do their jobs.

[Sioux-cia]

Yes there are negatives everywhere but UND seems to be dragging its feet on one of the major issues of our country and that is racism. A major university like UND needs to be a positive force and not tolerate incidence like these but their reaction has been poor at best. I actually feel bad for my alma mater.

The name and logo are respected on the UND campus.

That said, I totally agree that there should be zero tolerance for the actions against this student. The fact that the University had still not taken a stand on this is disgusting!! I am ashamed of the schools non action on this matter. When this happens over at St. Clown U, we are all over them, we should also be all over our own for the same reason!

[Goon]

The name and logo are respected on the UND campus.

That said, I totally agree that there should be zero tolerance for the actions against this student. The fact that the University had still not taken a stand on this is disgusting!! I am ashamed of the schools non action on this matter. When this happens over at St. Clown U, we are all over them, we should also be all over our own for the same reason!

The Student that drew the Swastika should be thrown out of school.

[Goon]

You got this part right.

For the record, Bill Ayers (if that is the "terroist" [sic] to whom you are referring) already came in early April. He gave an interesting and informative talk.

This is the same guy that said he wished he would have done more acts of Terrorism. Sounds like a great guy...

[Hambone]

Sounds to me like you're putting the victim on trial rather than the perps. Why? I get the feeling you attitude is the same as UND's, make the victim prove he was terrorized rather than have the perps prove they are innocent. Another blackeye for UND. I am a UND grad and I always wanted m kids to go to UND for college but incidents like these and the nickname issue have changed my mind. I can't stop them from going there but I certainly won't encourage them. Go ahead, let the potshots begin! I put on my mental kevlar.

Isn't that how it is with the laws of the United States? Innocent until proven guilty? A defendent doesn't have to prove innocence.

Not that I condone what was done to the individual. But if you're saying that everywhere but UND the perps have to prove they're innocent, I'm just correcting you. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your post.

[Sioux-cia]

You are correct, innocent until proven guilty.

What I wish the U had done was move the victim to another dorm or apartment while conducting their investigation. I also wish they had communicated with the victim so he was not left with the belief that nothing was being done. If infact something was being done. You don't leave a victim with a suspected abuser(s). That's not right.

[Stromer]

From what I understand from reading the email, the university was not going to give him a refund if he moved out of the dorms (a poor decision by the housing people). However, it sounds like they did offer to move him to another room, which was found to be unacceptable by Jack and likely the student. Thats how I am currently reading it.

According to the Dakota student, the student wasn't allowed to change rooms after asking for a switch. This wasn't the impression I got from reading the email conversation. What to believe? I also knew of someone last year who got into an argument in which his roomate hit him. The victim was the one who moved out and was easily accomodated by the residence hall organization. If it is indeed true that a new room was asked for, why was this incident not as important as getting hit?

[SoCalSiouxFan]

The Student that drew the Swastika should be thrown out of school.

http://www.forward.com/articles/13290/

Here is a picture of the drawing. See if you can see the Swastika?

Can't see it? Then you must be Anti-Semitic too, just like the university president.

when they presented the university president with photographic proof of one of the incidents, he refused to acknowledge that the image depicted was a swastika.

Someone has now been charged in one of the incidents, but several other episodes are still under investigation. The Jewish students say they are waiting for an apology from the university.

Maybe the student should be thrown out if he or she plans to be an art major.

[Sioux-cia]

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure someone will, but I thought the 'artist' admitted to drawing the swastika.

[Chewey]

What the hell is it anyway?

[Goon]

http://www.forward.com/articles/13290/

Here is a picture of the drawing. See if you can see the Swastika?

Can't see it? Then you must be Anti-Semitic too, just like the university president.

Maybe the student should be thrown out if he or she plans to be an art major.

After looking at the picture; that is a swastica?

I am also not sure how they can tie that in to the UND nick name?

[sIoUxPeRsTiTiOuS]

I have a good idea. Maybe the anti-logo and nickname protesters on campus should stop vandalizing school property with this crap. It is so painfully obvious what is going on here. This is their vehicle in getting the spotlight on the campus in order to have the name and logo removed. Despicable.

[fourwindsboy]

You know what's scary and chilling about this whole issue is you people are making excuses and rationalizing that these things aren't happeneing at UND and they are! That sends a chill down my spine. Wow!

[siouxlove]

There you go again, making sweeping generalized statements based on what a few members have posted. I know you 'don't have the time' to read whole threads but then in that same vein, don't make blanket statements like

you people are making excuses and rationalizing that these things aren't happeneing at UND and they are!

Of course they are and the majority of people are disgusted with what happened to this student. The last few posts are directed at what is suppose to be a picture of a swastika. It looks more like a kite to me. But no one has said the things that happened to this student are acceptable and shouldn't happen to anyone. What is confusing is how does this tie in with the Sioux name and logo? It doesn't. A racist is a racist whether he had a symbol to look at or not. The lack of the name and logo does not irradicate racism or resolve rascism.

A swastika, noose, KKK, are all used to intimidate, frighten and denounce a group of people. The Sioux name and logo are used as signs of pride, strength, respect, perserverance, family, and more.

[siouxcanoe]

Why is it that every year when I go to Maricucci, St Cloud, or the Kohl Center, going on 10 years now, There are protestors against the Fighting Sioux Name only on the nights that the media is present and then the next night nothing but a few people shouting demeaning slogans about the vikings and what if you called yourself the fighting white people or Wascu, which is a moniker on the Bridges Website. These groups bring out Nazi flags and draw swatikas on posters and shout things in the same demeaning way that they are protesting against. The true nature of this whole issue is legacy for both the University and the Sioux people of the prairie. It is one that will fade away if the name is allowed to disappear and all that will be left in North Dakota is the image of Indian Casinos and reservations with auto salvage yards in the front yard. I for one do not agree with the Sioux Tribes stance on the removal of the wonderful legacy that is the Fighting Sioux of North Dakota. I am of Native American blood and although that I am not 100 % or in the words of the Bridges Community, "NOT INDIAN ENOUGH." I will raise my nieces and nephews all of whom are mixed tribe Native Americans that HONOR, INTERGRITY, and LOYALTY are true values and that when they speak, or give, they can not just take it back! That is the taboo that Native Americans hate to be used in american culture, "Indian Giving," and no matter what they say or how they spin it! The Native Americans of North Dakota gave North Dakota the Fighting Sioux Name, they inducted the current president of the time into the tribe, and started a family relationship with North Dakota that has benefitted not only Indian Students but MANY, MANY, MANY, non Indian Students. The groups raising cain about the anti jewish stuff have stood idle for many years and not once defended UND in the use of these Nazi symbols against the name of the Univeristy but now for their benefit they are using shame politics to gain attention for alterior motives. These groups are just jocking for power with the new president.

[redwing77]

Why is it that every year when I go to Maricucci, St Cloud, or the Kohl Center, going on 10 years now, There are protestors against the Fighting Sioux Name only on the nights that the media is present and then the next night nothing but a few people shouting demeaning slogans about the vikings and what if you called yourself the fighting white people or Wascu, which is a moniker on the Bridges Website. These groups bring out Nazi flags and draw swatikas on posters and shout things in the same demeaning way that they are protesting against. The true nature of this whole issue is legacy for both the University and the Sioux people of the prairie. It is one that will fade away if the name is allowed to disappear and all that will be left in North Dakota is the image of Indian Casinos and reservations with auto salvage yards in the front yard. I for one do not agree with the Sioux Tribes stance on the removal of the wonderful legacy that is the Fighting Sioux of North Dakota. I am of Native American blood and although that I am not 100 % or in the words of the Bridges Community, "NOT INDIAN ENOUGH." I will raise my nieces and nephews all of whom are mixed tribe Native Americans that HONOR, INTERGRITY, and LOYALTY are true values and that when they speak, or give, they can not just take it back! That is the taboo that Native Americans hate to be used in american culture, "Indian Giving," and no matter what they say or how they spin it! The Native Americans of North Dakota gave North Dakota the Fighting Sioux Name, they inducted the current president of the time into the tribe, and started a family relationship with North Dakota that has benefitted not only Indian Students but MANY, MANY, MANY, non Indian Students. The groups raising cain about the anti jewish stuff have stood idle for many years and not once defended UND in the use of these Nazi symbols against the name of the Univeristy but now for their benefit they are using shame politics to gain attention for alterior motives. These groups are just jocking for power with the new president.

I'm not sure which organizations you mean, but if you mean the Jewish Student Organization, then it really has changed a lot since I was the President. All we ever did was talk and go out to eat. We were basically a social club. Whenever we came down to talking campus business, most of it revolved around Jewish holiday events, getting funding to attend Jewish conventions, and wondering who the flipping heck our Advisor was (no, I'm not kidding. To this day I don't even know what he looks like, what his voice sounds like, etc. All he is to me and was to us back then was a name. For all we knew, he could have been fictitious). If the JSO suddenly became a political entity, then it is entirely on the Advisor.

[Goon]

There you go again, making sweeping generalized statements based on what a few members have posted. I know you 'don't have the time' to read whole threads but then in that same vein, don't make blanket statements like

Of course they are and the majority of people are disgusted with what happened to this student. The last few posts are directed at what is suppose to be a picture of a swastika. It looks more like a kite to me. But no one has said the things that happened to this student are acceptable and shouldn't happen to anyone. What is confusing is how does this tie in with the Sioux name and logo? It doesn't. A racist is a racist whether he had a symbol to look at or not. The lack of the name and logo does not irradicate racism or resolve rascism.

A swastika, noose, KKK, are all used to intimidate, frighten and denounce a group of people. The Sioux name and logo are used as signs of pride, strength, respect, perserverance, family, and more.

I am disgusted as well what happened to this student. After looking at the I believe picture it looked like a kite as well. This act of stupidity has nothing to do with the logo. These people would have done this racist act no matter what the sports team logo was.

[siouxcanoe]

I'm not sure which organizations you mean, but if you mean the Jewish Student Organization, then it really has changed a lot since I was the President. All we ever did was talk and go out to eat. We were basically a social club. Whenever we came down to talking campus business, most of it revolved around Jewish holiday events, getting funding to attend Jewish conventions, and wondering who the flipping heck our Advisor was (no, I'm not kidding. To this day I don't even know what he looks like, what his voice sounds like, etc. All he is to me and was to us back then was a name. For all we knew, he could have been fictitious). If the JSO suddenly became a political entity, then it is entirely on the Advisor.

That sounds like a typical student organization, but that is what a student organization is, supporting each other and relieve some of the everyday pressure! What worries me is when organizations go outside the community to call in outside organizations to defend something that they are not directly apart of and defend with only one aspect. Spineless graffiti to offend a group of people is wrong, but it seems to me that the jewish community at UND had a pretty thick skin and was not phased by stupidity but now they are making a big todo about a few stupid kids and if that is the advisors doing, then the faculty at UND should be the first overhaul in the community. Thanks for the incite into this issue.

[redwing77]

That sounds like a typical student organization, but that is what a student organization is, supporting each other and relieve some of the everyday pressure! What worries me is when organizations go outside the community to call in outside organizations to defend something that they are not directly apart of and defend with only one aspect. Spineless graffiti to offend a group of people is wrong, but it seems to me that the jewish community at UND had a pretty thick skin and was not phased by stupidity but now they are making a big todo about a few stupid kids and if that is the advisors doing, then the faculty at UND should be the first overhaul in the community. Thanks for the incite into this issue.

My point is that this no named Advisor Wettstein(? I still don't know his name.) is making an issue of it. Maybe this finally got him involved with the JSO. Who knows what the JSO members feel about it. They were probably ticked off that it happened and very sympathetic to the student, but I'm also not sure they wanted to make a big deal of it.

There's a LOT of Jewish history that makes a BIG DEAL about remaining anonymous. Every time, historically, that Jewish people made a "big ruckus" it ended bad. Everyone knows about the Holocaust or the Pogroms, but here is a lesser known example:

If you go to Europe, you can tour your choice of ancient and beautiful Catholic churches and cathedrals. Search as you may, you will not find a similarly aged Synagogue. Why? Because Jews historically did not show their wealth by building expensive churches that are stone and ornate on the outside. In fact, they were made of wood. They almost had a Quonset style to them. The elaborateness comes on the inside walls where many had painted murals from wall to wall, ceiling to floor (not on the floor itself though) of every part of the Torah. So, once could start at the doorway, walk around the entire perimeter of the Synagogue and have, by the time they reached the door again, walked through the entire Torah. Why did none of them survive? They were all burned to the ground. EVERY ONE OF THEM.

So, when you drive around towns that have a Jewish community in them, that doesn't have a separate suburb known as the Jewish part of town (for example, Minneapolis has St. Louis Park, which houses the largest of MSP's Jewish community), 90% of the synagogues (especially those built before 1979) will be built deep in residential neighborhoods. They are not found on major drags or roadways.

"To remain hidden is to remain safe" seems to be the historic motto of Jewish society.

[Siouxman]

My point is that this no named Advisor Wettstein(? I still don't know his name.) is making an issue of it. Maybe this finally got him involved with the JSO. Who knows what the JSO members feel about it. They were probably ticked off that it happened and very sympathetic to the student, but I'm also not sure they wanted to make a big deal of it.

There's a LOT of Jewish history that makes a BIG DEAL about remaining anonymous. Every time, historically, that Jewish people made a "big ruckus" it ended bad. Everyone knows about the Holocaust or the Pogroms, but here is a lesser known example:

If you go to Europe, you can tour your choice of ancient and beautiful Catholic churches and cathedrals. Search as you may, you will not find a similarly aged Synagogue. Why? Because Jews historically did not show their wealth by building expensive churches that are stone and ornate on the outside. In fact, they were made of wood. They almost had a Quonset style to them. The elaborateness comes on the inside walls where many had painted murals from wall to wall, ceiling to floor (not on the floor itself though) of every part of the Torah. So, once could start at the doorway, walk around the entire perimeter of the Synagogue and have, by the time they reached the door again, walked through the entire Torah. Why did none of them survive? They were all burned to the ground. EVERY ONE OF THEM.

So, when you drive around towns that have a Jewish community in them, that doesn't have a separate suburb known as the Jewish part of town (for example, Minneapolis has St. Louis Park, which houses the largest of MSP's Jewish community), 90% of the synagogues (especially those built before 1979) will be built deep in residential neighborhoods. They are not found on major drags or roadways.

"To remain hidden is to remain safe" seems to be the historic motto of Jewish society.

Thank you RW77 for that educational piece. I appreciate it. I spent two years in England and a little in Europe and I did tour cathedrals (and castles and other historical places), churches, etc. Being an amateur history buff (and I hated history in high school) my favorite TV channels are History, International History, Discovery, etc. I enjoy learning about cultures and historical significance. It is enjoyable and educational to get past some of the blustery pontification and learn the background. Thanks again.

[Sioux-cia]

Let's not forget that the problems this particular student encountered went beyond a picture scrawled on a wall. There was a picture of a swastika with the works, ......is a Jew, he was verbally taunted for being Jewish, he was shot at with a pellet gun, there was something about using ice cream to draw a swastika on a wall.... This kid went through a lot. And because one picture doesn't look like a swastika does not diminish what this student had to endure at the hands of a few racists.