Awesome Letter

[aleah]

Oh yeah, racism is alive and well in America. You can fight it by raising your children to believe there is NO ONE better then they are because of the color of their skin, you can fight it through education, through example-living a drug free/alcohol free/violence free life. You can demand accountability from your tribal council and by doing so, provide your tribe with ALL the resources available to them, not just those not stolen by those in charge. I was sent a link to a website created by a SL tribal member. The things posted there, if even one tenth true, are shameful even more so because tribal members do nothing about the abuse of power by tribal officials. Don't blame a name and logo for the problems of Native Americans, blame your own 'officials'.

wow... so true. great paragraph

[fourwindsboy]

wow... so true. great paragraph

That is a good paragraph that should be aimed all americans not just NA's. Judging our tribal government by looking at a website, wow.

[fourwindsboy]

This past Christmas season I was working on a Sioux reservation. The tribal council voted themselves a $500. bonus, each, at the same time a woman was going to strangers' homes begging for food. This was relayed to me by a tribal member who knew the woman. She told me that the council was only taking care of themselves and not the people who were hungry and had no where to live. There are homeless, hungry people all across America and that is our shame. But, I do not accept that there is no abuse of power and resources on reservations when members tell me there are. As I stated in my previous post if even one tenth of that website is true that too is shameful. Even moreso because it's being allowed to continue. One of the members of this board was a friend of the murdered man. According to that member, the website is right on.

That may or may not be true. I am from the SLT and I have never heard of anyone begging for food. You will not find any people living on the streets either. Extended families are big on reservations and a family member will always open their doors for another. Oh wait, don't tell me, you heard it from some one that there was a homeless person on the SLN. Please. And by the way, there are homeless people people living 2 BLOCKS FROM THE US CAPITAL BUILDING, while congressman and senators give themselves bonus'. Get real and get a clue.

[Sioux-cia]

That may or may not be true. I am from the SLT and I have never heard of anyone begging for food. You will not find any people living on the streets either. Extended families are big on reservations and a family member will always open their doors for another. Oh wait, don't tell me, you heard it from some one that there was a homeless person on the SLN. Please. And by the way, there are homeless people people living 2 BLOCKS FROM THE US CAPITAL BUILDING, while congressman and senators give themselves bonus'. Get real and get a clue.

This happened on the Sisseton Wahpeton Oyate Reservation. And if you read my entire post. I said, "There are homeless, hungry people all across America and that is our shame. " Read the whole post not just parts that suit your purpose.

Yes, there are homeless people on reservations and no, they don't all have relatives or friends that will take them in. You may want to believe that "Extended families are big on reservations and a family member will always open their doors for another." but is not a reality. I DO KNOW THIS TO BE A FACT!

And about it "may or not be true", it is true. Why is it that you want us to believe that only you speak the truth? Why is it always the non Native American that tells lies? Why is it that only non Native Americans are racist? I've run into my share of racists and more than one of them is a Native American.

You have yet to answer any direct questions. You keep throwing out red herrings to confuse the issue but we're not so ignorant that we don't see your ploy. You decided because my avatar is 'Goon Squad', I'm a person you don't want to dialog with. How is that different than someone looking at the skin color of another and defining who they are because they are white, red, brown, black or yellow? Using skin color as an excuse for anything is a cop out, i.e. I didn't get the job because I'm black, etc., I can't get an education because I live on the rez., People hate me becasue of the Fighting Sioux name and logo.,Your evasiveness reminds me of a street hustler playing three card monty.

So, what happened to you in GF and at UND as a direct result of the Fighting Sioux name and logo??

How is changing the name and logo going to make life easier for Native Americans on the reservation?

[Goon]

So, what happened to you in GF and at UND as a direct result of the Fighting Sioux name and logo??

I am going with Sioux-Cia here. You come on this messge board you throw around a bunch of accusations but put forth no incidents to back up your claims only that you faced racism while your were at UND. I am interested and I am sure many others are as well what was your experience here at UND. In your opinion; why is UND such a horrible place? IF UND such a horrible place why do we have one of the top Native American programs in the COUNTRY.

Please tell us about incidents you talk about so we can see UND/Grand Forks from your perpsective.

[fourwindsboy]

I am going with Sioux-Cia here. You come on this messge board you throw around a bunch of accusations but put forth no incidents to back up your claims only that you faced racism while your were at UND. I am interested and I am sure many others are as well what was your experience here at UND. In your opinion; why is UND such a horrible place? IF UND such a horrible place why do we have one of the top Native American programs in the COUNTRY.

Please tell us about incidents you talk about so we can see UND/Grand Forks from your perpsective.

I could list the experiences I had at UND but what good would it do? You would just call me a liar anyway. I know what experiences I had while I was at UND and I don't have to prove it to you or anybody else! If you think there is not prejudice at UND then you need to wake up and smell the coffee, bro. By the way, I earned my Masters Degree at Montana State- Bozeman. Their NA programs and outreach to the reservations is tremendous. UND would do good to try to emulate their programs.

[Goon]

I could list the experiences I had at UND but what good would it do? You would just call me a liar anyway. I know what experiences I had while I was at UND and I don't have to prove it to you or anybody else! If you think there is not prejudice at UND then you need to wake up and smell the coffee, bro. By the way, I earned my Masters Degree at Montana State- Bozeman. Their NA programs and outreach to the reservations is tremendous. UND would do good to try to emulate their programs.

Wrong again, I am not going to call you a liar but I am waiting for you to stop tap dancing and give some examples of racism or incidents that you have experieced here at UND, maybe it would help the future students that come to study at UND.

Finally, I never said there wasn't prejudice at UND. I still don't understand why if UND is such a horrible place why does UND have such a high Native American student numbers. The name has nothing to do with racism long after the Fighting Sioux name is gone there will still be racist people at UND and in the world.

[Goon]

UND would do good to try to emulate their programs.

There you go again; UND is such a horrible place.

[Sioux-cia]

I could list the experiences I had at UND but what good would it do?

So many anti-name and logo students/former students say that they had horrible things happen to Native American students at UND, criminal things but no examples are given and none were reported to the police or to the University. I reiterate, there is racism everywhere. A racist is going to treat you differently if you are the 'wrong color, religion or race', be you African American, Native American, Jewish, etc. To blame a name and logo for racism is like blaming carbohydrates for diabetes. Do you propose getting rid of all the carbs?

You don't believe what I post even with examples and my first hand knowledge. Yet, you say something(s) happened to you yet why bother identifying them....

Regarding the U's Indian Studies programs, I don't know about Montana (you can fill us in) but I do know that UND has more Native American programs than any other school in ND, SD and Minnesota. The only reason many don't want to acknowlege or admit that it's more than 35+ programs/studies are 'valid' is because of the name and logo. It also had, perhaps still does, more enrolled NA's than any University in these states. Feel free to correct me, my stats are about 2 yrs old.

[fourwindsboy]

There you go again; UND is such a horrible place.

Dude, your'e gonna have to look at my previous posts. Not once do I call UND a horrible place. It's a different place from where I'm from and I had some negative experiences there. If you had to move to a reservation and live for an extended period of time, what would you think? Perspective, my boy, perspective. Keep arguing with me though, its actually amusing.

[aleah]

Oh yeah, racism is alive and well in America. You can fight it by raising your children to believe there is NO ONE better then they are because of the color of their skin, you can fight it through education, through example-living a drug free/alcohol free/violence free life. You can demand accountability

fourwindsboy, I was mostly referring to this part of the paragraph.

[Goon]

So many anti-name and logo students/former students say that they had horrible things happen to Native American students at UND, criminal things but no examples are given and none were reported to the police or to the University. I reiterate, there is racism everywhere.

I am hearing the same thing, YET, there are no police reports or any news in the Grand Forks Herald. No one can give us specifics.

Some how all of this is blamed on a sport team moniker. This will all go away when the name is changed? I am waiting for these examples but all we get is spin.

[Goon]

Dude, your'e gonna have to look at my previous posts. Not once do I call UND a horrible place. It's a different place from where I'm from and I had some negative experiences there. If you had to move to a reservation and live for an extended period of time, what would you think? Perspective, my boy, perspective. Keep arguing with me though, its actually amusing.

You said we could learn a lot from your previous school in Montana, I interpreted that as a slamb against UND. Again, enough with the spin lets hear your examples so we can learn about your experience at UND. Maybe the Univesity can learn from your experience at UND. I keep hearing how bad of a place UND is, and how it full of bunch of racists and how hostile UND is. Would someone please state some facts, not spin, not acedontal evidence.

[Sioux-cia]

Judging our tribal government by looking at a website, wow.

No, judging it from news articles about corruption of funds and resources, about rigged/illegal elections, high school drop out rates, teenage pregnancy, children born with fetal alcohol syndrome, scientific findings re. drug and alcohol abuse on reservations in ND, first hand knowledge about elder, child and domestic abuse on the rez, etc. in addition to that website authored by a Native American. Why is it that those evidence based reports are not valid yet your unsubstantiated allegations are to be accepted at face value?

Your not offering anything new to this forum that we haven't heard before. And like others before you, you avoid answering the 'sticky' questions.

I'm done.

[fourwindsboy]

No, judging it from news articles about corruption of funds and resources, about rigged/illegal elections, high school drop out rates, teenage pregnancy, children born with fetal alcohol syndrome, scientific findings re. drug and alcohol abuse on reservations in ND, first hand knowledge about elder, child and domestic abuse on the rez, etc. in addition to that website authored by a Native American. Why is it that those evidence based reports are not valid yet your unsubstantiated allegations are to be accepted at face value?

Your not offering anything new to this forum that we haven't heard before. And like others before you, you avoid answering the 'sticky' questions.

I'm done.

Who is this person who authors this website? Is this person a PHD or someone with any real empirical evidence other than hearsay? Oh, and who is the author? If the person who runs this website wants to be taken seriously, then they should make themselves known.

[dead_rabbit]

Who is this person who authors this website? Is this person a PHD or someone with any real empirical evidence other than hearsay? Oh, and who is the author? If the person who runs this website wants to be taken seriously, then they should make themselves known.

Someone get me some duct tape QUICK! I think my head is going to explode!!!!!!!

[Fetch]

Hey FWB - I really hate to hear what your saying

In your opinion is there anyway possible for UND to keep the name ?

Or are the majority really as affected & IMO Petty about all that has happened since 1492

Now I will agree NA's got treated terrible - But to win this small "Battle" now, does not seem rational

I truly believe we Fans & Players use the name with the utmost respect

I only see relations being set back (Regionally) as in a lot of folks not wanting to patronize the two Casinos after the name is gone

This has to be one of the worst Public Relations blunders both Tribes could make

I really like the SL Casino & Marina

I wish it could be voted on by all members of both tribes

Then if we lose the vote - then I could let it go & not hold a petty grudge of my own

& by petty (might not be the right word) but a grudge that does not make sense in 2008

[Goon]

I wish it could be voted on by all members of both tribes

I think it is the best way to solve this.

[Fetch]

But not honoring old agreements ....

IT IS NICE TO KNOW THAT A FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE SIOUX TRIBE BACK IN THE DAY IN 1939, APPROVED THE LOGO AND NICKNAME ALONG WITH THE NCAA, HIS DAUGHTER TRULY DISSAPROVES OF GETTING RID OF THE LOGO AFTER HIS APPROVAL , AFTER A SUPPORTIVE ARTICLE TO KEEP IT WHEN HE GAVE THE NCAA PERMISSION TO ALOW THE LOGO AND NAME, ALONG WITH THE NCAA.

would be like us (USA Gov.) not honoring the treaties or agreements, last made, that gives lots of tax dollars to reservations because they are old & were done by leaders that are no longer around

We really want to honor you - maybe you should honor old agreements too

& maybe the NCAA should not have as their main sponsor (Pontiac)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Pontiac

I'm not sure I can let this go

[dead_rabbit]

Who is this person who authors this website? Is this person a PHD or someone with any real empirical evidence other than hearsay? Oh, and who is the author? If the person who runs this website wants to be taken seriously, then they should make themselves known.

So, a person with a PHD would be assumed to be as credible as another person with "real empirical evidence other than hearsay?" Case in point, just look at all the PHD holders that are preaching global warming (without "real empirical evidence" btw).

[Goon]

So, a person with a PHD would be assumed to be as credible as another person with "real empirical evidence other than hearsay?" Case in point, just look at all the PHD holders that are preaching global warming (without "real empirical evidence" btw).

I know a lot of people with PHD that shouldn't be allowed to teach. Most of the stuff that comes out of their mouths isn't back up with imperical evidence.

[Darth412000]

It's not up to Myra or RHHT to vote. If the PEOPLE want to put it to a vote, it would happen. Let me tell you if it were put to a vote today it wouldn't pass on Spirit Lake. I've been talking to alot of family and freinds about this issue and most really didn't have an opinion until I expressed my point of veiw and my experiences in GF when I was going to school at UND. Take my word as someone who has lived on Spirit Lake all of my life: IT WILL NOT PASS!!

This seems strange to me considering I have a residence in Devils Lake and fail to see this as the popular attitude of the young Native Americans I run into around town.

Last November (I believe it was November) when the settlement decision between the NCAA and North Dakota was announced my husband and I headed downtown to watch some Fighting Sioux hockey at a local bar. I found it reassuring to run into numerous Spirit Lake Tribal members wearing Fighting Sioux hockey jerseys and UND apparel. In fact, I even struck up conversations with a few them referencing the newly announced settlement. The overwhelming consensus from those that I spoke to that evening (and other evenings since that one) was that the young people of the Tribe support the Fighting Sioux name and logo at UND. In fact, I will always remember one young gentleman telling me that he specifically wore his Fighting Sioux hockey jersey that evening to show the community that he and his family support the name and logo and everything they stand for.

Ask yourself this question - If the Fighting Sioux name and logo leave UND, will the ignorant racists leave with them? I'd be willing to bet the answer to that is NO. This name and logo don't cause racism, ignorance does.

[Siouxmama]

This seems strange to me considering I have a residence in Devils Lake and fail to see this as the popular attitude of the young Native Americans I run into around town.

Last November (I believe it was November) when the settlement decision between the NCAA and North Dakota was announced my husband and I headed downtown to watch some Fighting Sioux hockey at a local bar. I found it reassuring to run into numerous Spirit Lake Tribal members wearing Fighting Sioux hockey jerseys and UND apparel. In fact, I even struck up conversations with a few them referencing the newly announced settlement. The overwhelming consensus from those that I spoke to that evening (and other evenings since that one) was that the young people of the Tribe support the Fighting Sioux name and logo at UND. In fact, I will always remember one young gentleman telling me that he specifically wore his Fighting Sioux hockey jersey that evening to show the community that he and his family support the name and logo and everything they stand for.

Ask yourself this question - If the Fighting Sioux name and logo leave UND, will the ignorant racists leave with them? I'd be willing to bet the answer to that is NO. This name and logo don't cause racism, ignorance does.

I agree with your comment of many people being in support of the name and logo. I am also from Devils Lake and have many native american friends there. I have yet to hear an opposing view from any of them. There are so many people from the Spirit Lake Tribe that wear UND clothing and hats. Just go to the nearest baseball diamond or Walmart and take a look around.

[Chewey]

Hey FWB - I really hate to hear what your saying

In your opinion is there anyway possible for UND to keep the name ?

Or are the majority really as affected & IMO Petty about all that has happened since 1492

Now I will agree NA's got treated terrible - But to win this small "Battle" now, does not seem rational

I truly believe we Fans & Players use the name with the utmost respect

I only see relations being set back (Regionally) as in a lot of folks not wanting to patronize the two Casinos after the name is gone

This has to be one of the worst Public Relations blunders both Tribes could make

I really like the SL Casino & Marina

I wish it could be voted on by all members of both tribes

Then if we lose the vote - then I could let it go & not hold a petty grudge of my own

& by petty (might not be the right word) but a grudge that does not make sense in 2008

Agreed that this is one of the absolute worst PR blunders that the tribes could possibly make. To people like RHHT, David Gipp, BRIDGES etc., it's not about what is rational or good long-term for the tribe. They are not interested in constructing bridges, working to end racism, etc. They are for simply striking back in this fashion.

[Goon]

& maybe the NCAA should not have as their main sponsor (Pontiac)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Pontiac

I'm not sure I can let this go

Pontiac is the sponser of the NCAA isn't it?