skateshattrick

I understand where you coming from, but I'm not sure that I necessarily agree. I believe that there is fan support, just not support from the City, the Park Board and NDSU. You have to remember that 1/3 of the season ticket holders at Sioux hockey are from this area. Youth hockey is Fargo has great numbers, just a woefully inadequate number and quality of facilities. The Flyers and Raiders have 15 teams from Squirt to Bantam, the Patriots typically have 9, and there are also some rogue teams. However, these are all private organizations that receive no support from the Park District or City. Fargo recently built 2 rinks, which means there are now 4 public rinks for a city that is over 100,000. In other words, the number of sheets of ice are pathetic. I could go on all day, but there would definitely be support if: (1) Fargo would build a quality arena and (2) the Park District and City would provide some financial support rather than simply supporting golf and softball.

What is the attraction? Is it the ugly uniforms or are you just a masochist who enjoys seeing the Sioux spank your teams around?

Or with Steve DeBus and Dan Woog, 25 year old Gophers.

I agree, and I have never said that. Like any national championship, you have to have a little luck to win. The bottom line, however, is that you won it. There is no asterick next to a national championship. The Sioux caught a break in 1997 when they did not have to go to Michigan. They did not in 1998, and had to play in Michigan. Ironically, the 98 team was much more talented. The Gophers caught a break the last 2 years when Denver and CC had to go to Michigan. However, all they could do was take care of their own business by winning and they did that. They deserve recognition for winning the past 2 years. It's not easy to win a national championship. However, the fact that they won the past 2 does not automatically annoint them as the greatest program in the country, either now or over time. There are many programs that can make a legitimate case for being the best, including UM, UND, Michigan, Maine, BC, BU and even Wisconsin and Michigan State. It's a little like saying that Miami is the best in football. It depends on the era and one's perspective. I would think that people from Nebraska, Oklahoma, Florida State and others may feel differently. As I've said, the biggest problem that I have with Gopher fans and announcers is the arrogance---that they are the best, and they spin the facts to make that case---and the fact that whenever someone else wins, there is always an excuse---"its only because you use 25 year old Canadians," etc.

From my perspective, it has nothing to do with the players, and everything to do with the fans and announcers. The Gophers play a great brand of hockey that is the most similar to the style of UND and CC. However, the Gopher fans and announcers are a different story. As I stated in an earlier thread, Wisconsin fans always cheer for the Sioux and other WCHA teams when they are not playing Wisconsin. Minnesota fans do not. When the Sioux beat Wisconsin, I have never heard the excuses like: (1) the only reason the Sioux won was because they had 25 year old Canadians or (2) the academic standards are lower or (3) the Sioux are a Division II team and its easier to win when you only have to concentate on one D1 sport or (4) the only reason you win is because you recruit heavily out of Minnesota, etc. etc. Bottom line: it is the arrogance and excuses of the Gopher announcers, media and fans. Wisconsin and UND have mutual respect for each others' programs.

I have no problem with them being biased, except they have to remember that they broadcast outside of the Twin Cities into Grand Forks, Fargo, St. Cloud and UMD, etc., and constantly belittle other programs and their fans. The bigger problem, however, is that they have no objectivity (kind of like Wayne and Garth) and they are HORRIBLE. PA is 2nd only to the White Sox announcers in homerism and poor play-by-play, and he's better and more objective than Dubay. Dubay acts like he's about 18 with his immature comments and lack of professionalism. However, no one makes me listen to them, so I seldom do unless there is absolutely nothing else on. For the life of me, I don't know why anyone would listen to them, particularly if you are a fan of any team other than the Gophers or the Vikings. If they tick you off that much, don't listen! I have heard some on this board complain about Woog, but Woog is much more knowledgeable and objective than PA and Dubay. He can be a little bit of a homer, like Tim Hennessy, but I actually enjoy listening to him, particularly when the Gophers are playing someone other than the Sioux.

See my earlier posts. Kyle Hardwick is a junior in high school in Warroad. He has an older brother that plays for UMD, but he is much better. He is the real deal, probably further along than even Brian Lee and Jon Ammerman of Moorhead. The feeling is that he is good enough to come directly from high school next year to college.

Good point! However, some seem worse than others. I could live with Campion or Randy Schmidt. I've always felt that Shepherd is a Gopher homer, but maybe Gopher fans see what we see in him. Adams is just horrible.

Thanks. That may not be the best news for the Sioux. Shepherd and Adams have got to be the worst in the league.

Does anyone know the Referee for this weekend's series? It may be important, because the Gophers have a very good power play. As a Sioux fan, I would be happy with a split. It is difficult to sweep on the road, particularly against a very talented team that is playing with confidence and playing very well. For the Sioux to get a split (or hopefully, a sweep) they need to stay out of the box. If they play 5 on 5 and get decent goaltending, they should get a split. This is a scary series for both teams because a sweep against would be devastating.

Isn't it ironic that TC would find a website that is entitled "Gopher Hockey Arrogance"? If you click on the icon for "Reasons for Arrogance," it notes that "we're arrogant because we're the best. That's right, the best. Nobody else comes close." Unbelievable! TC thinks its "jealousy", but the disdain for Gopher hockey is clearly "arrogance."

I have also seen Moorhead play a number of times, and they are very talented. I don't know if I would go so far as to say they the most talented I have ever seen, but they are probably one of the top 3 AA schools in Minnesota, along with Eden Prairie and Centennial. Wayzata and Edina are also very good. Warroad, a class A school, is not far behind. They recently beat Roseau 15-1 and Crookston 15-0. They play Moorhead in Warroad this year, and I would not be surprised to see Warroad beat Moorhead if they can generate enough offense. Warroad is also good enough to win the Class AA this year. Ammerman and Lee are juniors, and considered 2 of the top defensemen in the state. Barta is also good. Gifford, Oliver, Deutz (all seniors forwards) are all good, but I like Matt Becker, a junior. He is small, but very quick with great hands. For Warroad, Kyle Hardwick is a junior defenseman and is excellent. Oshie is also a junior forward and is very good.

Hardly. I think the opposite is true. As I said, I don't need to troll other message boards to tell everyone how great my team is, but apparently you feel that is necessary to "spread the word" how great the Gophers are. Sorry, but I did not drink the Kool-Aid. You obviously have been drinking the Dubay/Sid/Mazzocco Kool-Aid. If you keep saying "The Gophers are better than the Sioux, the Gophers are better than the Sioux", maybe one day it will come true!

I don't need to go, nor have I ever visited, POI to tell everyone how great the Sioux are, how the Gophers suck or to generally stir up trouble. You cannot make the same claim, and reaffirm and validate why the Gophers are despised. CC has had great success for the past 10 years, and Wisconsin's program has historically been as successful as the Gophers, but you don't see similar loathing from Sioux fans. I wonder why that is? Have you looked in the mirror?

You are right, every school has them and you are Exhibit A. You are the classic troll with never anything positive to say, only trolling to stir up trouble.

You have echoed my sentiments precisely! As much as I want to like the Gophers because of reasonable fans like Greyeagle, Sagard and WPOS, I cannot get over the fact that the majority of Gopher fans cheer against the Sioux when I have been at national championships and regionals. The most recent was last year when the overwhelming majority of the Gopher fans cheered for Ferris State. By contrast, when the regionals were in Wisconsin in 1999, Wisconsin fans showed up and cheered for the Sioux against BC. Wisconsin fans did the same thing at the National Championship in Milwaukee in 1997, and in 2000 at the Regionals after Wisconsin was upset by BC. I also cannot stand the arrogance of so many affiliated with the Gophers from the announcers (Mazzocco, Woog), to the radio loud mouths (Sid, PA and Dubay) to the constant obnoxious Gopher fans that we constantly see in Fargo/Moorhead. BC is the same. In 1998 when they beat the Sioux they chanted "USA". Apparently, "USA" is only when its convenient because they won a national championship in 2001 in OT over the Sioux in which the 2 biggest stars were Canadians, Kris Kylanos and Chuck Kobasew. (Minnesota used to do the same thing, by the way). BC is almost universally hated out east by Maine, UNH and BU because of the arrogance of the fans and announcers who claim:(1) that the other schools only win because they recruit Canadians and Europeans (2) that the academic standards are lower at other institutions or (3) they recruit older players. This was almost a universal complaint of BU and Maine fans at the Frozen Four in Providence in 2000. Do these types of claims sound familiar Sioux and Gopher fans? The bottom line is that I cheer for the WCHA except the Gophers. My second favorite team will always be whoever is playing the Gophers.

I think that you are underrating Hockey East, at least Maine. Maine beat UM convincingly, and is a good team with a very good goaltender, Jimmy Howard. I saw BC when they played the Sioux, and they are very, very good. Additionally, BU, which is near the bottom of Hockey East, tied the Gophers twice at home. I also saw the Gophers easily handle UNH, but UNH has been struggling and is currently tied for 4th in HE. I agree that the WCHA is stronger, particularly UND, Minnesota and UMD, but I would expect that BC and Maine will be strong contenders for the Frozen 4.

I agree completely with your assessment. The Gophers are a very dangerous team, and may even be a Frozen Four team if they get sent to a different regional than the Sioux. From what I have seen, UND and BC look like the top 2 teams in the country right now, but you can never count out Minnesota, Michigan or Maine. UMD and New Hampshire may also have an outside shot.

Aaron Marvin is Mike Marvin's son, and yes, is related to Lee (all the Marvin's in Warroad are related and they own Marvin Windows, the Patch, etc.). Aaron is a sophomore. He's a good but not great player. The Warroad bantam team that he played on last year was mediocre. The Fargo Flyers went up and won their tournament last year. The Hasbargen's are also related. They also have an Olimb on the team who plays defense and is good. The best on the team are Kyle Hardwick and Oshie. Hardwick has an older brother that plays for UMD, but Kyle appears to be much more talented.

Time to revive this thread. These were my preseason predictions. I had UMD too low, as they look like a top 4 team, perhaps 2 or 3. Wisconsin is also low, although I expected them to be better, just not this fast.

A name to watch for is Kyle Hardwick of Warroad. He is a junior and reportedly, the Sioux and Gophers are very interested. He probably will come straight out of high school without playing juniors.

Why do you say that? The first year that Omaha started its hockey program, it was $1M in the black. It ended up supporting fledgling football and basketball programs. If a team can draw even 4-5,000 for 20 home games, the attendance is 80-100,000. It take 5 home football games of 16-20,000 attendance to rival that. Our myopic friends at NDSU could not recognize that because, like South Dakota, felt it would hurt its other programs when in fact it supports them.

Spin it however you like. The Sioux have 7 titles, the Gophers 5. They also have 5 since 1980. The Gophers have 3. If you want to compare even since 1997, which is about the past 6 years, the Sioux and the Gophers each have 2 titles. However, the Sioux have 4 WCHA titles and 2 WCHA tournament titles, the Gophers 1 WCHA title and 1 WCHA tournament title. How about head to head? 1996-97--The Sioux win 3-2 1997-98--The Sioux win 3-1 1998-99--The Sioux win 4-0-1 1999-00--The Sioux win 2-1-1 2000-01--The Sioux win 2-1-1 2001-02--The Gophers win 6-1 2002-03--The teams split 1-1 2003-04--The Sioux lead 2-0 The "many" Gopher fans who truly believe that the Gophers are "superior" are in denial and do not let the facts get in the way of their unsubstantiated beliefs. The Sioux had their down year in 2001, mostly because the pros decimated their team. This year is more reflective of the Sioux. By the way, which team has turned out more NHL players, now and over the past 20 years?

I suppose it does. The Sioux were also in back to back championship games in 2000 and 2001 and an OT away from back to back. Plus, the Sioux won it in 1997, 1987, 1982 and 1980, not to mention league titles in 98 and 99. Meanwhile, the Rodents didn't win since 1979. Time must have crawled for you then, huh?. Time must REALLY crawl this year when you are 4-7-1 in the WCHA, 7-8-1 overall and you know in your heart that your hated rival is back in front after a mere 2 year hiatus. The truth hurts, doesn't it? Whether you live in the past or the present, the Sioux beat the Rodents. Meanwhile, the Rodents truly are: BACK TO BACK TO BAD.

You can only take care of business by beating the teams that are on your schedule. Wisconsin is obviously better than expected. Minnesota, CC and Denver may have struggled, but they are all very good teams. Michigan and Michigan State are also very good. Give Wisconsin credit--they are in the hunt for the Final 5 of the WCHA.