Chief Illiniwek Supporter

Here are a few other links I posted the other day.... http://forum.siouxsports.com/index.php?sho...&start=2629 FYI: Toews is getting plenty of ROY support. I don't know what his personality was like in college, but he seems fairly quiet here. Kane gets far more interviews, etc. BTW, I did look at the comments: I'm suprised an expert in Constitutional law and freedom of speech issues hasn't advocated drawing and quartering anyone who dares to wear the t-shirt. And of course, we'll need to sew Denis Savard's mouth shut.

Offered for your approval- Commit to the Indian. Denis Savard's comments in the Chicago Tribune T shirts available

I am sure "someone" has the power to do this, the question is will it be done? Seriously, if you or I were somehow "banned" from a high school or a civic center merely for the words we had written (as in the case of the blogger) or banned from doing our job as a health care professiona,l there would be an ACLU-supported court case filed before the ink was dry on the so-called banning. Is the reservation is beyond the United States (or North Dakota) justice system? If I had to guess, I'd say the answer is yes. Beyond that, the banning of a doctor/nurse/other health care professional can only backfire in the long run. I certainly hope this case is remembered the next time the total nutjobs who tie poor health on the reservations to a symbol on a hockey jersey yap away.

That's pretty accurate IMHO. Has anyone else besides Goetz ever seen/mentioned/heard of the enrollment issue? Or the "student perceptions" issue? I think those are simply the wishes of one side of the debate. When you elevate these harebrained "its doing this" assertions that are unsupported in the real world into a statement of fact, your objectivity is questionable. If its true that protesters are being bused from city to city, that's very sad. But I wonder what the posters who talk about the money "wasted" on the lawsuit and how it could be better spent would say to this use of money. I'll resist the urge to comment on other people's stupidity. But I will say that this sort of Pollyannaish "oh if you just eliminate the nickname then the controversy will go away" attitude is common among those who want the nickname to go away. They never mention FSU or Utah. Aside from the above, I have a question on the so-called "nation to nation" negotiations: who gets to vote in the tribal elections, and is that the only "nation" those people can vote in? I certainly can't vote in a British election, or a Mexican election. One nation and one nation only as far as voting for a US citizen AFAIK. Seems to me that if you can vote for people who are on both sides of a negotiating table it becomes a moot point.

This should have been where YOUR AD and President stepped in and told the other school that they expected better security-use the old "open letter" and athletic conference meetings agenda gambits. And of course this is why the protesters want to link your nickname to a universally recognized symbol of hatred. Logic doesn't matter, just that emotional first reaction. They would put your school on a level with baby-killers if they could figure out a shorthand, visual way to do it.

A quote from the newspaper: Negative impact on student enrollement: Can you prove this? Can you quantify this? And IMHO if this was in any way true, the nickname would have been dropped long ago. Negative impact on student perception: Student perception of WHAT? Divisive environment perpetuated... : And either eliminating or keeping the nickname will do what? Are "devisive environments" automatically bad? This smacks of groupthink to me. Impact on Alumni-Foundation relations: I'm going to go way out on a limb here and translate this as really saying that "the alums are sitting on their hands and not kicking in enough". So eliminating the nickname is the preferred solution here? IMHO, a lot of hot air to say what everyone already knew. You have empowered idiots, the vast majority of people don't like it and you're trying to please a tiny number of academic PC zealots and "activists" without actually losing dollars contributed by the overwhelming majority of people who realize this "insult" is a non-issue. That's not going to happen. Either you accept the lower income or you actually tell some of your friends to get a life.

Not trying to get too far off the subject here; nor am I going to engage in a Constitutional debate. But in the last few days I have heard of two Supreme Court cases: one in which a person (using the term loosely) is trying to say that he doesn't deserve the death penalty because all he did was rape an eight year old girl: he didn't kill her. Another person is trying to convince me that the current execution method is "cruel and unusual" (and of course, by extension say he shouldn't be put to death), and his crime was killing a couple in front of their children. I can't even begin to give any weight to the opinions of these people. I certainly refuse to be lectured to by these sub-humans. The larger issue is that the inmates have been running the asylum for way too long already. Only in America could silliness like this prevail. We've virtually solved hunger, health care is more than adequate and general comfort issues are generally back-burnered these days. Last year a headline that should have gathered more interest had to do with the developing economic giants like India and China telling us that they couldn't support pollution control until they "caught up" to us in comfort issues. We're far and away the country with the most time to even consider this garbage (and that's where we return to the whole PC craze and the nickname "insult" idiocy of this thread).

Oh no!! You're making fun of religion!! A fan of North Dakota is taking advantage of the name of a rival college to discriminate and insult!! This cannot be!! The ONLY solution for this outrage is for Saint Cloud State to immediately change the name of its entire college. Why, I remember when I was marching in the North Dakota band at SCSU's homecoming; people were holding up pictures of skinned Saints. They were probably someone's grandmother, and I know if it was my wonderful grandmother...

Here's a story about how there are only three people left in the Onieda nation (near Green Bay, Wisconsin) who speak a dialect of their language: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/c...2&cset=true My question is this: obviously this removal of their proud, dignified culture is solely caused by those ignorant, bigoted white European-American types who STILL (despite all our efforts at re-education) insist on using words like "Sioux" (but not Seminole or Ute) to describe sports teams on the University level. But how??? FWLIW, the tribe of 15,000 members has found time time to open a casino and multi-story parking deck in Green Bay. And that undoubtedly would have been accomplished far sooner if only the Sioux nickname would have been eliminated when we first demanded it.

I can hardly claim to be the first person to decide that Jesse has a bit of a credibility issue. Hey, anyone here enjoy a cold Budweiser now and again? Did you know that Bud was entirely discriminatory and prejudiced according to Jackson? But then, Jesse suddenly had a revelation and decided that they weren't so bad after all? And just about the time of his revelation his son (Yusef, not the congressman) was "allowed" to purchase the highly profitable River North Bud distributorship here in Chicago? Yes, if you drink a A-B product in most of Chicago's tourist/convention neighborhood bars, the person serving that to you is the son of the famous activist. And totally off the subject: Jesse and his son (the congressman) are on opposite sides of the Democratic presidential primaries. One is for Hillary, the other for Obama. Probably makes for some lively debates, but also ensures that someone in the family will be friends with the winner.

BTW, here's a few photos of people at the Rose Bowl. You may have seen some of these people on television. In spite of the First Amendment guarantees that all people (including Poli Sci grads) simply will not be offended, somehow they snuck in. Also: not photographed here but seen on local TV was one person who was wearing a "Chief Illiniwek"hat at the game. That would be the popularly elected Lieutenant Governor of the State of Illinois. (No word yet on impeachment proceedings.) http://www.news-gazette.com/scene/gallery/331/?photoID=95 http://www.news-gazette.com/scene/gallery/331/?photoID=125 http://www.news-gazette.com/scene/gallery/331/?photoID=25 http://www.news-gazette.com/scene/gallery/331/?photoID=33 http://www.news-gazette.com/scene/gallery/331/?photoID=72

IF (and IMHO, that's a huge if) that is truly their opinion, then they should be criticizing FSU, Utah, SDSU and probably a few others. And they should also be identfying what qualifies a school as "native" and why Pembroke is off their list. Then they should tell us why Notre Dame, St John's and all the rest who use any sort of ethnic nickname should be protested. Personally, I think they're protesting just to protest.

Ah, but what IS possible (and actually works in the Western world of the 20th-21st century) is to keep claiming victim status as well as demanding money from those people who conquered-er, I mean "victimized and oppressed" you and your people. The rejection of the avenues to success generally resulted in the extinction of cultures in the past. Lately its more like the people who were not keeping up are celebrated and/or exaulted.

Interesting that the picture depicts some of the early adopters of the "Big Lie" theory.

But, the nickname is still there. And, ND hasn't exponentially expanded its victims studies programs (along with an expansion of needed "teachers" who will draw a generous state salary and benefits package to do little more than what they're already doing: spouting nonsensical blather and the wildest of broad-based conclusions based on almost non-existant evidence). And of course, the ever-popular apology is certainly going to be demanded here. So yes, your school isn't on the NCAA's list anymore. But you'll be on the PC protesters S-List at least until your great-grandchildren are in college. You got that right. And if the reason isn't there, well why not just make one up? See the letter to the editor about the "skinned" photos if you need any more evidence. Want to bet the North Central Accreditdation Committee won't even consider this before giving the college an A+ for its "socially progressive programs"??

I certainly don't know all of what is required in order to be a teacher. (For that matter, I'm not even sure what Praxis is.) But I do know that the "their/there" confusion (or misuse) is all too common among the teachers I do know. (And that's both elementary and high school-level teachers.) I personally find that very sad. Just as with Praxis, I don't know what a McDonald's manager makes. However, I can tell you that I'm acquainted with someone who holds a doctorate degree in his field-he teaches at a "University of" state college. He makes low-mid six figures; and believe me, he works FAR less hours than fast food mangers. Not to mention the extended summer breaks they spend in Europe. And as a side note, there are several subjects where I would trust the McDonald's manager's opinion more than his.

(emphasis mine) I have to admit that while it would be sad (on many different levels) if you had said you were employed as a teacher I certainly wouldn't have been surprised. The education required of what passes for a "teacher" these days is utterly shocking and disappointing. And with that said, all readers should feel free to insert your their (!) own lawyer joke here.

This one will be a bit out of order compared to the original, but I'm sure everyone will be able to follow along. I did find the place where I came to the conclusion you were a student. It was a bit earlier than this summer, but still-I think its reasonable to say that someone who claims to have "classmates" in the spring is still a student in the fall. http://forum.siouxsports.com/index.php?sho...8082&st=101 So, now we all know-yes, you are a graduate. Can I ask if you are either teaching or involved in politics? I'll be honest, so far just about everyone I've ever run across in politics is either a lawyer or a marketing person of some sort. I've yet to find either an elected/appointed official or even someone who runs a campaign who has a PoliSci degree. Two can play that game. Here it is, mark it down-on Christmas Day, the sun will rise in the east. I'll be back on the 26th to accept congratulations from all. (BTW, here's a long-term outlook one for free-we'll elect a new president in 2008.) Ah, this old chestnut. Lemme guess at the next one: if you haven't directed a movie then you can't be a movie critic-right? Okay, everyone who isn't a UND grad get out of the pool. -Except for the Sioux themselves. The can stay in the debate. -And the AD at the University of Minnesota, he stays too. We like him. -Oh, and whoever writes a newspaper editorial I agree with. -Hmmm, one more, sympathetic professors and Native American "activists": they can stay too. -Wait, student protestors at Dartmouth are okay: its good to have their voices heard. -And.... I saved the best one for last. The claim of VICTIM status. "Oh, look everyone (hey, is this bullhorn on? Testing....) I'm being persecuted for my beliefs." Simple answer-no, there's no attacks on people just because they say something. I can't claim to have read all the posts, but most of the time people here seem to be talking about ideas rather than personalites. And that's the key. When YOU spout astoundingly simplistic, moronic ideas that are simply breathtaking in their incredible failure to even come close to having a tenuous grasp on reality, those posts are going to be shot down. You need to separate the ideas from the person. One thought from the other thread-if someone is consistently being accused of being a flamer/troll, and they aren't trying to do that: its time that they leave the forum. And trust me, its not because he's the smartest guy in the room and the rest need a little time to catch up with his intellect. When you keep on insisting that you (and you alone) have the correct interpretation of the First Amendment-and its one that the Supreme Court hasn't quite gotten around to issuing yet-well, people tend to ignore the rest of your ideas.

Not an answer; but you aren't the only school with lyrics that don't translate well from the time they were written. Our school has "...for we know you have sand..."

Wait a minute. His interests NATURALLY led him to nicknames? Which part is natural? An undergrad in Computer Science? (The fact that he took that undergrad and went on to grad school for sociology is interesting in and of itself.) The grad work in Sociology? Are we to assume that everone with a BS from North Dakota in Computer Science who go on for a Masters or doctorate in Sociology should study "American Indian sports nicknames"??

For some, there will simply never be "enough". And its not as if that situation is unique to either North Dakota or to your particular American Indian population. Its just that you have given this group of complainers not only a bullhorn to scream out their nonsense all night, but also a sledgehammer to whack you over the head with.

No, no, no. Not a writer. Still in school at some level. Don't forget, this poster informed us over the summer that he and his classmates had already discussed this (presumbably, that was so the rest of us would be spared the heavy lifting of actually thinking for ourselves); and they concluded that Sioux had to go and something "nice and neutral" should be adopted instead. You know, like "Pork Chop". Something everybody can get behind. Non-controversial. A name nobody can say is demeaning.... BTW, you can read this week's Sports Illustrated for some absolutely priceless rationalization about Pork Chop. Apparently the minor league team thinks its absolutely okay to just rename their mascot at any time. So their new nickname will be rotated out any day now I guess.

Many years ago, I first heard the saying "if you give someone an inch he'll take a mile". The PC zealots have given and given and given. This is merely one of the latest attempted "takes".

As noted several times before, the NCAA has done nothing but empower self-important clowns. However, since the Aztecs of San Diego State get a pass because they're not within the boundaries of the lower 48 states, maybe this should be taken up as an identical case?

Did anyone see the article in today's Wall Street Journal? It was about a man (a Native American) who is trying to be a judge in the tribal court on an Arizona reservation (the same tribe that now has a walkway partially over the Grand Canyon). I hope the nitwit who wrote the letter to the editor, imagining the horror that some Indian SUPPOSEDLY endured upon seeing his own grandmother's picture somehow photoshopped into a skinned cutout and displayed at an opponent's homecoming parade reads it. No comment on grandmothers, but three cases were highlighted: A) Man chokes his own mother B) Man knifes his own mother C) Man "attacks" his own mother in a dispute over a television. All of these incidents apparently took place hundreds of miles away from either the University of North Dakota or any of their homecoming opponents. But I'm sure he would find a way to blame this on a nickname and a copy of the Blackhawk's logo... A little off that subject, but related to this article and something to think about: this man graduated from Stanford undergrad, and subsequently attended Harvard Law as well as the Kennedy Government School at Harvard. His studies were interrupted by a request from his Tribal elders to return home and help out, so ultimately he recieved his law degree from Arizona State. But the point remains: I'd say this person could easily have done something far more lucrative than become a tribal judge for an (impoverished) Indian reservation. But he went back. The people who are asking for more programs at North Dakota for Native Americans coming from reservations need to find a way to make sure the graduates (and their education) return to the reservation, to benefit the tribe.