Chief Illiniwek Supporter

Hope one of the neighbors says the color of his house is insulting, and demands that he repaint it. After all, what right does he have to tell the neighbor not to be insulted? From the article...

I guess the NCAA was out in front on this issue. Apparently, about 100 college presidents are at least giving some indication that they're open to the idea of making the drinking age 18 rather than 21. Exactly. Why lay down a winning hand? The guilt trip-thing has been a terrific boon to them. IMHO if they make you lose the nickname, then suddenly their problems will all be caused by how long it took you to eliminate "racism" on your campus. Edit: my use of the word "them" might have been a little overreaching. While some minorities will claim victim status for as long as it pays off, there are many, many others who will not just go along with the knee-jerk reaction by blaming everything that's wrong in their lives on society's ills and perceived slights.

In this case, it would be micromanagement by a very large organization (the federal government) to correct micromanagement by an organization that is merely large (the NCAA). Personally, I am always suprised to see the number of private action bills passed thru Congress for a particular person's citizenship, marriage, etc. Does it make it right? No, but it also means its not unknown to happen. An interesting editorial that makes a lot of points already mentioned: namely, words like Sioux, Cherokee and Seminole are a part of the public domain and cannot be owned any more than a word like "French". But a private organization like the NCAA can do as it pleases-unless a powerful Congressman from Louisiana decides that Tulane is being jobbed on a bowl invitation: then hearings are scheduled and the rules of the organization are changed.

Not a story on your nickname: but the language here mimics some of the language from the lawsuits filed by our former Chiefs: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=Ak...p&type=lgns ...the NCAA has wrongfully, arbitrarily and capriciously denied Mr. Mauk

You would think that if there were hundreds-if not thousands!-of University Presidents just outraged at this, then certainly one of them (say, the guy at Hartford who was wildly offended that anyone would use Indian "totems") would step up and make a motion. For that matter, the current President of Syracuse is our former Chancellor: she actually burst into tears when the Trustees failed to get rid of Chief Illiniwek when she wanted them to. Upon moving to Syracuse, one of her first actions was to change their nickname from "Orangemen" (& probably "Orangewomen") to simply "Orange". I guess that gender-specific garbage was grating on her from the very start. IMHO she'd be another candidate to put her money where.... er, I mean to practice what she preaches. (Off this subject: The Chicago Blackhawks logo is "Proud, traditional and iconic" according to the Hockey News. The Hockey News ranks the NHL logos: Hawks are #1 )

I wonder why the NCAA presidents who attend the convention just don't make a motion to ban alcohol ads and pass it despite the objections of the committee and Brand? After all, this was the rationalization behind the dropping of the lawsuit: the bylaws would just be changed.

Any mention of sponsorship by Pontiac? Is the Jeep Cherokee banned?? I don't think Mr. Brand will have to worry about this issue for much longer. Bud's new parent is going to cut advertising buys significantly; and many people think that action will allow Miller, Coors, et al to also cut their budgets.

I found the original article on the net: between this guy, Mr. First Amendment and the one who thinks there's a single corporate "Sioux Nation" you have quite a collection. But my favorite was another quote from the story... Yes, since you've been there 30 days its long since past the time that you started this crusade: people just hadn't thought of it before. (You should wait longer than 30 days before posting to a message board, much less running for office.) Again, the entire state of North Dakota was just waiting for an enlightened person like you to light a single lamp. Uh, the majority had to elect you in the first place-if you don't retain that majority, you're going to lose. Its kinda simple. Another good one-I was stuck between the fillings, tinfoil hat brigade and a Star Trek fan convention reference. I really think that if you had a college full of (white, black, your choice of a single race) nutcases who embraced any and every sort of wild conspiracy theory, you would be immune from charges of racial discrimination. (At least from the academic community, that is.) Finally, another quote from the article: Ethinic reference!! Racism!! BURN THE NEWSPAPER TO THE GROUND WHILE THE PUBLISHER IS IN THE BUILDING!! SHOOT ANYONE WHO HAS EVER READ IT!!!

It's frightening to think he's a college graduate, much less a law school grad.

So he's a law school graduate (if not a lawyer): and not only does he throw in a Nazi reference for no discernible reason, he also thinks that someone owes him personally a history of this statue??? Wow. This guy has quite an entitlement complex.

I appreciate the kind words. While the most likely "next" competition would be in basketball, I will mention that if your school has a club hockey team we could give them a run for their money. Illinois is the reigning National Champion of club-level men's hockey. We have had a strong program for years but it seems like very recently the organizers have put a little more emphasis on organization. We enjoy a home ice advantage for a number of reasons, but opponents often mention that our rink approaches a square shape rather than a rectangle. (BTW, our hockey team used the Chief symbol long after the offical teams dropped it in deference to political correctness.)

First, what is this "Sioux Nation" to which you refer? AFAIK, there are several federally recognized Sioux tribes-some totally within the state of North Dakota, but at least one of which straddles a state border. And while each of those tribes elects their own government, that's the end of the elections. There are no worldwide elections beyond the tribal level: no "UN" of these tribes. Simply put, AFAIK these tribes are quite separate entities and no "official capacity" unites them all. The Seminole nickname is heard outside of Florida (and the United States for that matter), so why is only one tribe permitted to vote it up or down? Same thing with the Utes, and of course, the Aztecs (who have NO say in the events at San Diego State because they're at least 6-7 miles away over the soundproof US/Mexico border). Your question needs to be asked of the NCAA and/or the UND Administrators who agreed to this settlement. Again, I don't understand your concept of a single "corporate Sioux Nation" beyond the tribes. And as long as you think its dumb for the Irish, Trojans, Spartans, Sooners, Cornhuskers, Vikings, Braves, Seminoles, Aztecs, Rainbow Warriors, Cavaliers, Demon Deacons, Giants, Saints or any other group of people to be a "totem" then I believe you'll find a lot of people on this board agreeing with you. IMHO, most people posting here will be satisfied with simple consistency on this issue. And for that matter, you will find many people who don't want the Tigers, Bulldogs, Blue Hens or any other animal to be used as "totems" either. Perhaps not here, but there are people who do think that way.

I believe your school would be wise to start selling some "North Dakota" shirts with a distinctive typeface. That way, it would be a symbol (and I think with the typeface it could be trademarked AFAIK) and the school could claim some sort of royalties from the sale. Lets face it, anyone can market a green and white shirt with the words "North Dakota" on it and the school would get nothing from sales at Wal-Mart, truck stops, etc. (And of course, today nothing prevents a store from marketing a green and white shirt with a generic drawing of an Indian and "UND". But that's a different subject.)

Well, why stop there? How about the unanimous consent of everyone registered as a Sioux Tribe member? Maybe those who also have some Sioux blood should be able to vote. And how often should we have these elections? Is once a year really often enough "morally"? Maybe monthly polls would be more morally acceptable to those who set themselves up as the ultimate arbitrers of morality? How about if we spend government money to equip everyone worldwide who even claims the tinest bit of Sioux ancestry with a secure wristwatch style voting mechanism to allow him/her the ability to veto the use of the logo on a minute to minute basis?

Agree. You'll never please everyone, why not just say "we're North Dakota" and let people expand that as much or as little as they wish? (Personally, I have zero desire to ever see another symbol at Illinois.)

I found out something today: the Washington Times was founded (and may still be owned) by the Rev. Sun Myung Moon. It's certainly not your typical newspaper-regardless of your political leaning.

You

In another thread I was talking about when the zealots would give up. On this board, we have one anti-nicknamer who views any court of law which he disagrees with as totally illegitimate: and another poster who has famously (and repeatedly) claimed that for this issue, he is perfectly willing to overturn the "freedom of speech" that Americans have been constitutionally guaranteed for about 220 years or so. Extremists? Perhaps. But they're out there.

Quite simply: never. I really believe that they're a classic example of the "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" type of people. They see compromise and appeasement as weakness. I think all you need to do is go to the other burning question on this board to see this in action. You have a dorm incident which could have a thousand and one explanations, yet some are drawing a definite cause-and-effect relationship to your nickname.

Please do not interrupt the agenda!! If this is pursued on appeal, the results will either be justice (the entire dorm full of kids will be jailed for life and your President will be mowing the plantiff's lawn from now on) or continued discrimination (undoubtly caused solely by your nickname). One has to wonder if this case is pursued all the way to the Supreme Court, will Ruth Bader Ginsburg be allowed to comment? And for that matter, does anyone know the religion of the judge who dismissed the case?

D'oh! Ya got me good on that one! I looked at it, kinda thought "huh?", surfed away on the web: and then I finally understood the pun and came back here.

A bit off topic, but here's another example for those who think the PC zealots will be satisfied at some point. Like many others, our school has various levels to group contributors into for the purposes of getting better tickets, etc. Before, we had names for these levels like Chief, Brave and Tomahawk. But this year, we now have new PC names. Olympian, Champion and All-American. So not only do they own the words on the field, they own words like "Chief" and "Brave" anywhere else too. As noted, its a brave new world out there.....

Interesting quotes:

Yep; when all of the textbooks, websites, etc. talk about this tribe or that tribe being "victims" of smallpox blankets and cavalry charges you need to keep that name if you want to keep on claiming problems 150 years later. I wonder why this referendum wasn't linked to a party given by young women in their late teens or early twenties.