Chief Illiniwek Supporter

Just pointing out that there's more than one possibility as far as motivation. I personally am with the "are you kidding? Someone called their Saturday night drinkfest a "cowboy" party: and people here are calling them stupid because they did this within some unnamed radius of a group of hyped up radicals mad at the world? They have no more or less rights than anyone else on any campus. There is absolutely NO proof that anything illegal happened. Now we have idiots wasting newspaper space on not only this non-story but someone here who called a themed party a nail in a coffin?" crowd. I don't know when the photos were actually placed on line. If they've been out there for four months, then maybe the protesters had other things to do, like earn a living. Don't really know or care. I'm just astounded at the people here who are all over kids on their own campus doing the exact same thing that goes on LITERALLY in all fifty states. There is absolutely no proof of any damage except to the "you hurt my feelings" brigade who would tell you that sunshine is discriminatory if you were to waste five seconds of your life listening to them.

(emphasis added) OTOH, it could be that they were well aware of the uber-PC people who would find "controversy" and "prejudice" upon seeing a dandelion and they actually INVITED this sort of garbage by dressing this way at a Halloween party. (I think this is the first time on this thread that someone has mentioned the idea that it could be anti-nickname people who not only found four month-old pictures, but also could have been the subject of those pictures. If not, sorry for the rehash.)

I'm guessing the answer is yes, at least on most college campuses. I think you might be able to get away with it at FSU and Utah (among others). Halloween left the building long ago. Want to dress up as a hobo or bum? Sorry, you're "making fun of the homeless". If my neighbors wanted to paint their garage door with either a swastika, a picture of Christ, a picture of Lenin or a peace sign there is nothing I can do about it. However, on a college campus if you find some on-line pictures of an event that took place months ago and which didn't affect you in the least, you've got a "cause of action" with some PC committee. Go figure. How this type of thing prepares anyone for the real world is beyond me. Just keeps up the "entitlement mentality" that we see on this board....

Well, now who is to say exactly what a cowboy does and does not look like? Let's not stereotype....

Only in the PC-obsessed world of academia could this possibly be an issue. Can you imagine going to your neighbor's house and demanding that they change their wallpaper because you're offended? The best part is that nobody even knew about it until someone found PHOTOS on line after months had gone by. I'd wager that you can find pictures like this of parties at DOZENS of campuses. Yet people want to try and tie this into a nickname? And I'm utterly shocked to see some of the usual drivel... Yes, only a flamer or someone with a titanium-reinforced concrete agenda could run with a cause and effect relationship here. A person with blinders that stretch to infinity is the likeliest to say "the sky is blue: change the nickname!" "It's raining: lets move on to a nice neutral name!" (In the spirit of slowing down to look at a train wreck, I'm kind of interested to see how this will be worked into a utterly hilarious "interpretation" of the First Amendment. No freedom of how you dress will be tolerated in our Brave New World! )

There's a quote (and I think its attributed to Winston Churchill) that goes something like "when a young man is not a liberal he has no heart: and when he becomes an old man if he is not a conservative he has no brains".

Exactly. First you weren't happy because you couldn't control what North Dakota did with a word from the English language that you claimed "ownership" of: now you're unhappy because you DO have control? Be careful what you wish for....

This is my own long-held favored solution. It would really put the NCAA into a corner: how could they tell a federally recognized tribe it doesn't control its own (federally-registered) name?

Not really suprising, but at least its official: yes, the students do support Chief Illiniwek- http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/200...rning_ui_symbol A little ammo for the knee-jerk "the younger generation understands: its just the old-timers hanging on to an outdated, racist mascot" crowd.

I don't know the answer to that question, but I do know that some tribal spokespersons have been particularly disinclined to have others "blame" the tribe. See the article referenced in this post: http://forum.siouxsports.com/index.php?sho...9502&st=227 And specifically, this quote: It certainly doesn

I think Goetz would have to get the tribal leaders to actually turn down the option of a full-tribe referendum before he could pin more blame on them. I remember the leaders remarks about "how this will be blamed on us (meaning the Indians)" but IMHO if Goetz wanted to pin them down even more he would keep floating the idea of the referendum rather than the painfully obvious "but the next group may not like the Sioux nickname" blather. Marginally related to this line of thinking is this... How much do you want to bet that the "stakeholders" committee will most certainly be composed of multiple members who's ideas reflect those of the people like ..His Horse.. but no one who considers his "stake" to be "there's absolutely nothing wrong with our current name and logo"? BTW, current popunder ad for this site is for the Grand Casino Tunica.

Why agree? To get out of the lawsuit. Florida State, Utah, et al. are also in the same boat. However, no one there has been saying that their nickname & logo has "little or no value" (which is EXACTLY what your leader is saying here IMHO). Agree. The minute a "committee" is formed, you should interpret it as nothing more than a way to share blame. Absolutely correct IMHO. See "committee" above. IMHO, the tribes hope that your University leader will take the blame. Which he seems to be doing.

Here are the key words IMHO.... If the current nickname and logo were to be retained, what value would be added by this group? No, this is just a way to spread the blame and try to "cushion" the blow.

Yep, they can link this thread and use it as some sort of proof that they're being threatened with economic retaliation. But I will add this: even if this thread didn't exist, or if any other internet/printed/taped statements were NEVER made about how UND supporters were threatening an economic boycott unless a vote was in favor of the University, I think that some of the loudest screamers on the other side would simply say "I heard...." and it would be irrefutable. You've seen people here talk about some sort of homecoming at another school with pictures of skinned Indians. The hyperbole of "I heard that the hockey fans were organizing a boycott" is mild by comparison.

They were there. On television last night they refused to show them; however, they did show the large blue tarp that counter-protesters were holding up to shield the church and the family. And in the paper today they mentioned that the village had "coincidently" parked large snowplows between the protestors and the church. The newspaper interviewed one of the people. Her "God hates fags" sign was a leftover from when she went to the funeral of one of the people shot in the Omaha department store.

One more thing that's not necessarily from this thread, but was mentioned in the various "free speech" posts: remember the so-called church who has people picketing at the funerals of veterans with the message that "God hates fags"?? They showed up at the funeral of one of the shooting victims of Northern Illinois University.

You may be correct, but I think the tribes realize there will be some sort of backlash. And on a personal level, I know that if I went out for an evening of entertainment, just realizing that several people in that tribe were being turds just for the sake of being turds would turn me off. I'd seriously consider if I was getting enough entertainment for my money by going to that casino. But what is "fair"? People weren't going to go to the Atlanta Falcons' games after Micheal Vick: certainly that wouldn't have been fair to the vendors, parking lot people, etc. Advertising was pulled from Cleveland Municipal Stadium after the Browns announced their move: that wasn't fair on some level. In both cases, simply carrying on in the usual way wasn't what people were going to do and a choice was made to "hurt" some people rather than do something that was against one's principles. Finally, But OTOH, they do owe rational thinking to themselves IMHO. To listen to the people who are saying things like "this doesn't begin to make up for 150 years of history..." and think that they're getting back at "the man" with this is just as vengeful. (And no, two wrongs don't make a right.)

Thats true, but AFAIK it would make no difference once your name/logo is gone. I think once you give it up, you can't get it back. I'll admit I haven't read the "settlement" closely but that's the way I understand things. The "anti's" only have to win once. The "pro's" have to win EVERY TIME. From the article: Exactly who is the "they" you refer to?? And can you imagine the reaction if somehow "they" took this OUT of the hands of the tribes? Omigod, you're disrespecting OUR culture; we own this, remember the smallpox blankets, ..... Also from the article: Good-now they want to set up a two-tiered voting process. Someone ought to ask her if there needs to be a ranking based on how long you've visited the campus: one day, one vote: three years, one thousand votes... Finally: Yes, its quite unimaginable that the Seminoles and the Utes and the Chippewas did exactly this. Here's someone who's very used to getting his own way and isn't afraid to lecture you if you disagree.

Student vote on Chief Illiniwek: (beware, this link takes FOREVER to load) http://media.www.dailyillini.com/media/sto...s-3200266.shtml IMHO, its interesting to see the reactions to a vote being taken: the comments section has someone telling the students that since they're at an educational institution they need to educate themselves-and this person proceeds to list out every single anti-Chief link they can find. And the main article has comments saying that the students have already had an opportunity to speak. (Of course they did, and the faculty did too-but nobody tried to prevent the faculty from holding THEIR vote.)

Sorry, I typed the word "you" and meant it as a universal "you" rather than a specific personal reference. Instead of saying "how do you tie them to your nickname" I would have been more accurate to say something like "how does anyone tie them to any nickname" so I apologize for using your post to quote. (And not that it makes a difference, but I was impatiently waiting for the entire article to come up in a new window. Once I saw it I quoted it. But that's no excuse for the bad typing and references.)

Certainly there are comments here, and in other forums. But how do you tie them to your nickname? From the article:

That I don't know: I'm sure someone else who lives closer can help out with that one. But here's one thought off the top of my head-does this third tribe have a reservation that is entirely within North Dakota, or does their tribal land straddle a state border?

I'm guessing; but I'd say that if you only got one of the two, then the other tribe would come back and say "isn't OUR opinion just as important?" putting you right back in the same situation that you have right now. That, and of course the NCAA bent over backward to make this as favorable to the disadvantaged minority as possible. I'll re-raise a point I made a while back: how about if you change your name to "University of North Dakota Spirit Lake Sioux" and keep the logo??

(emphasis mine) I'm glad this is happening-an important first step IMHO. However, I'm not too happy with the couched, unknown-time-frame tone of the tribal council member. I have to wonder if a referendum would be binding according to the tribe's constitution? IIRC, that was part of your NCAA settlement. I would think that if the referendum is held, no matter what the outcome it would pressure the other tribe towards holding a similar referendum. However, if it doesn't pass you can expect the "how much should we spend to hold an election that will be meaningless" argument to be raised. Also, the "we want to hold an election, we just don't know when" language of the original article makes me curious as to whether the two tribes are trying to get together on a decision on holding the referendum-and if so, will it be held on the same day. Perhaps I'm reading too much into that.

This was predictible; the only suprise was that the backlash took so long. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/slezak/7645...carol29.article I simply LOVE the condescending attitude here.... Ah yes, Notre Dame doesn't count. And why would that be? And the Irish are the ONLY exception? Please.