Chewey

Maybe Kelley, Goetz and the others heeded Sic's advice. Of course, who ever doubted where they stood on the issue anyway?

Assume that the stars align properly and SR grants approval - perpetual approval. Does anyone think the SBoHE would still be crazy enough to adhere to its 30 year timeline? That was never part of the settlement agreement, even the AG is opposed to it, Summit League has no position on it, etc.. Could anyone imagine the grinding and gnashing of the teeth that would occur? Could Dorgan, Chairman of the Indian Affairs Committee, actually redeem himself from 30 years of political graft (my opinion, even though he's a public figure) and broker a deal now that he no longer has to worry about impressing the PC police? Not likely but stranger things have happened, like the parting of the Red Sea.

Isn't the gutter (or, maybe, the plugged up toilet bowl) where he's always been?

Now that is VERY well said, indeed. Do I have your permission to post this on my refrigerator? I'm serious. The only thing is that the troll will not possess the ability to process those insights.

The collective spirit of the native people has been broken for a very long time and the victim and overtly racist mentality promoted by RHHIT, David Gipp and various effete white elitists (see holier than thou college professors, NC00 officials and administrators) only serve to continue that tragedy. It is cloaked in things like "racist epithets really are being directed towards NA's at sporting events" and "appropriation of culture" etc but the victim mentality is really all it is. How is the NA collective spirit resurrected? I don't know but I am sure that it starts at the grass roots level and it does not involve either simply throwing money at it or continual racist propagandizing courtesy of RHHIT, various white professors, etc.

Hmmm. Against the Fighting Sioux nickname but likes the Washington Redskins because of the team's affiliation with NA's? Wow, nothing contradictory there.

Ok, I'll have at you. It's a stupid name suggested by the same PC rejects (and I'm not suggesting that you're one of them simply because you like this particular abomination) that want to retire the present nickname. So, if the "Sundogs" nickname is selected, we'd be known as "the Dogs" like Duluth, Ferris State, SCSU, etc. etc.......Wonderful!!!!!! If the present nickname is ditched, the "North Dakota" is all we'll need and I bet Sicatoka would let the U use his avatar, for a small yearly fee, as a logo; it would look nice, I think. Why not let the sports teams serve as marketing tools for and make money off of the state identity itself rather than via some stupid replacement logo/nickname?

That's a very good point. Unless there is some very clear indication that the Summit will choose someone else, the damages from delay by virtue of an appeal are not there. Conversely, the damages incurred by not letting the process play out (i.e. spending 1M - estimate - to "clean" the Ralph of those "offensive" NA images - how stupid, right?) are very apparent. The harm of waiting 10 months and letting the process play out and, possibly, saving 1M in costs is < than the unknown consequences relating to the Summit issue that would occur during that time.

It is very quiet and I am very sure that's been quite purposeful. I am sure the ones involved have been told to keep their mouths shut. The PR people for the Summit have probably advised them to stay silent; it's obvious that they did not have PR people earlier this year. The PR people for the SBoHE are probably trying to keep their jobs following the deadline fiasco and they're probably trying to find a way to "diplomatically" drop the bombshell but they know that there will be huge backlash. So, they're probably in consultation with the Summit saying that they'll get the name thing resolved by November, 2010, especially now that the SR attorney has come out with the conclusion that the vote to prevent the vote was unconstitutional. They're probably in consultation with some members of SR who are indicating that a vote will happen. I think the Judge dismisses the suit and that the SBoHE gives another "deadline" by which SR is to have a vote. If the vote approves the name in the same manner as SL, I think the 30 year thing is gone. If the SBoHE wanted a 30 year agreement, it should have included it in the surrender with the NC00. If both tribes approve, the conditions are satisfied. What can you do when 70% of the NA's and 98% of the alumni and student body approves of the nickname? Politically speaking and as a matter of common sense soothe the masses, you stick to the original terms and you convince the Summit (perhaps not much convincing is necessary) to give you some cover/cushion -- this means "Summit, please ease your own ill-advised deadline and let this matter play out." If the SBoHE truly believes it is in the best interests of the university and the athletic programs to truncate the process just to lock in to the Summit (ostensibly necessary for the benefit of the athletic department and school) while really, really angering 98% of UND backers/alumni, they are either very shortsighted or they're being given some extremely bad advice. The reality will be very sobering and fallout from that decision will be around for decades, at the very least. 98% of those who went to UND for the last 60 years and who are not dead will vehemently oppose how the process was conducted and that opposition will manifest itself in terms of money/support. It's just a simple reality. Plus, the "Dartmouth" effect will befall the school, in my opinion.

Hockey brings in all of the attention and money. I am sure football and basketball are doing ok but hockey is what basically underwrites the whole athletic department.

I did not know we were in English class. Maybe he said it that way for effect. One has to consider the audience he was addressing.

The 30 year thing is something that is not supported by the ND AG and it could just as easily be rescinded or some lesser time frame could be suggested. That time frame was not part of the agreement. If the school gets the tribes' "perpetual" approval (and it already has one tribe's approval), the name stays, in my opinion, and the 30 year business goes out the window. As to #3 (as well as virtually everything else), your obtuse makeup probably would preclude any kind of insight. Nonetheless, it's manner in which it would be changed (early deadline, jelly fish for administrators at UND, etc., view of collusion between the NC$$, the Summit, the SBoHE, etc.) that would piss people off. If the original deadline were followed and the nickname did not receive approval, as per the terms of the surrender agreement, then fine change the name. However, imposing terms not stated in the agreement, parading the psuedo-exigency regarding the Summit League, acquiescing to collusion between the NC$$ and the Summit League = no respect for the surrender agreement or for the fans and alumni. This is exactly how it looks to the vast majority of people, in my opinion. Like it or not, if people are pissed their pocket books are going to close up. They don't teach you this at the PC asylum but it is a harsh reality.

You presume that there are not going to be negative repercussions by simply caving in right now. If you want to see an athletic department with serious deficits, stay tuned if the nickname goes in the next month. If you think revenue negative programs are suffering now, stay tuned if the nickname goes in the next month. If the SBoHE really lacks the discernment capacity to figure out that simply dropping the nickname without allowing the process to take place, as per the agreement, UND is SOL both ways. RochSioux is exactly right. If the SBoHE thinks that 98% of the fan base and alumni are just going to get the nickname issue crammed down their throats and be told to "just deal with it" and that there will not be lingering bitter feelings for decades (which will result in a ton less $$$$ for ALL sports), then there may as well be a bunch of monkeys on that board. Everyone knows that this Summit business is just cover and it's all VERY transparent. If the SBoHE has any wisdom or political acumen at all, it will stick to the November, 2010 deadline. If the deadline comes and goes and the nickname goes with it, the transition will be MUCH less bitter. With the Tribal attorney coming out now and saying that the previous Tribal Council's action was/is unconstitutional and with the SBoHE knowing that the new council will abide a vote showing that the majority of the people support the nickname, does anyone in their right mind think the SBoHE will do anything other than follow the original deadline? I don't think so, personally. Like I've said before, anyone with a scintilla of sense would let the original deadline play out if one were truly concerned about negative consequences. If you anger die hard fans/alumni, you have no athletic department.

Hmm. Well, troll, it's kind of basic stuff that goes all the way back to a little case known as Marbury vs. Madison. But, troll, you don't even need to know about that. Just recall 7th or 8th grade civics, if you weren't baked the whole time, and you might recall something about 3 co-equal branches of government. Congress drafts legislation, the President signs it into law the Courts review it for constitutionality, etc. At the very least, you may remember the "I'm just a Bill" episode of "Schoolhouse Rock" on Saturday mornings but you are either too young for that or, more likely, were baked at the times it was on. Court's should not have the power of review?? If ever there was a walking, talking, breathing case for educational reform, I think we have it.

Jesus, understand civics much?

Besides, since 1992 the Fighting Sioux own the Bison in just about everything. Moo U has always envied UND's law school, med school, flight school and D-1 status. As far as Fargoans are concerned, how can arm pit Grand Forks have that?

Curious that no one outside of the curious clique of usual whiners notices all the allged tumult on campus. The "tears and heartbreak" must be reserved only to that crowd for, up to date, not getting their way.

Great news! Say what you want about the "Redskins" nickname but this is not surprising. It's a bit hard to cram PC down on private enterprise. There are no twit administrators without backbones and no NCAA/college system dominated by resurrected 60's hippies. If one wants to effect change in that regard get people to not go to the games or buy the clothing, etc.

Isn't this Lurch from the Adams Family? It's truly remarkable how well preserved that man is. http://www.stcloudstate.edu/athletics/spor...nMarvin_000.jpg

Better watch out. The PC idiot brigade may send the FBI after you. I have a WWII book on the SS with a bunch of pictures of Himmler, Heydrich, etc. in it. I had better watch out, too.

Frank Sage said he and fellow American Indian students at UND are being ignored by the board. "Why aren't they answering to the Native students and the incidents that are happening? The hate crimes? They are violating our civil rights," Sage said. "It's pretty upsetting to me." Where do they come up with this stuff?

Ok. So, if one reads between the lines, what is Kelley saying? Maybe someone who lives around GF can tell us. Is it: Door #1 -- "I've been directly informed (or they've told me in euphemisms with nods and winks) by the SBoHE that the deadline will not be extended. All of you nasty, racist nickname supporters had better keep it in check because we all need to focus on the school's core values." OR Door #2 -- "I think or have been informed (again with euphemisms with nods and winks) by the SBoHE that the deadline will be extended. All of you (I could probably count the # on 4 hands) civil, enlightened and respectful nickname opponents had better not call me a racist and Nazi support at the homecoming parade."

Great article! This is so true. Let's hope that the SBoHE reads it. Steve Fool Bear hits the issue right on the head and he pulls no punches about the make up of the few anti-nicknamers.

Methinks that the SBoHE will meet on 10/01 and summarily consider the issue and refuse to extend the deadline, regardless of what happens on SR. If the SBoHE were going to extend the deadline, it would have had its conference call or whatever by now and we would have heard of the extension. Anyone else see how all of the SBoHE double-speak these past few months is now coming to fruition? Any other predictions? Any other insights? I tend to agree with Sic that the fix is in. There is no way that the SBoHE did not realize that the SR elections were going to be held on 09/30. They have had their minds made up from day one and are going to drop the bomb soon and let the "process of reconciliation and healing" begin.

If all of the politicos have meant what they've said (i.e. "let the tribes have a voice," "we need to see something definite from the tribes," etc., etc.), this is the last thing that they'll do. I hope they're not that stupid. I can not imagine all of the work of the pro-nicknamers and alumni and others going for naught. They must know something that the rest of us don't, I would think. I can not accept that the Board would just be arrogant or stupid enough to do this. Grant Shaft said that the Board would defer to the anaysis of the AG and the AG said that what the SL Tribe did (before the very most resolution) suffices to satisfy the NCAA agreement and he said that the Board should extend the deadline. The SL Tribe gave exactly more than what the Board asked for, namely, "perpetual" permission to use the nickname and logo. With 95% of the people in favor of keeping the nickname and 67% of the SL Tribe and probably the same percentage of SR Tribe wanting the school to continue using the name, would the Board really be that pig-headed (dare I say stupid)?