Teeder11
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Posts posted by Teeder11
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The only reason anyone uses the phrase "green and white" is simply to avoid repetition of UND when referring to the team throughout a story. Journalism 101 has been to avoid repetition and to flip flop between team name and location when writing. Since Fighting Sioux is no longer available, "North Dakota" and "green and white" are good and acceptable replacements for using UND over and over.
When Wayne, Tom, Brad etc. write an article, they aren't thinking about the psyche of their readers and how this could affect their long-term thoughts about a particular nickname, they are simply trying to not sound poorly when writing on deadline. "Green and white" and "North Dakota" only give them flexibility. Period.... end of story.
^^^^^^^^^^This. Bingo!
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I like it. I thought it was fun. And if the players like and it gets them pumped, so be it.
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I don't think there is a conspiracy about it, but when a prominent media outlet like the Herald uses a term enough, it will develop a place in our minds and in our psyche and it could develop a life of its own. That is all I am concerned about. I want our new name (whatever it is) to be able to stand the test of time and to give us a solid identity so that marketing the athletic department and school are easier.
Point is they've been using it for years, even decades. It is nothing new. You just are noticing it now because of the loss of the nickname and the emotions are still so raw.
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Has anyone noticed that Wayne Nelson of the Grand Forks Heraldo has been calling UND the "Green and White" since the nickname retirement took effect? I honestly wish he would knock it off. If he keeps calling us that, people will get the hairbrained idea to make that our new nickname. I can just picture opening up my Sunday Herald and turning to the Insight section and seeing Mike Jacob's mug next to the "Matters at Hand" column with the headline "Green and White Solid Choice for UND's New Name" or some other garbage like that.
Any talk about a new name should wait until the cooling off period is over. I don't want to end up with "Green and White" or "Sundogs" or anything stupid like that.
Relax. There's no vast conspiracy taking place before your eyes. Wayne, Tom Miller, Schloss, Virg before him, and Kevin Fee, when he was there, and countless other sports writers that have been at the Herald have been using the term "Green and White" for decades as a substitute for "Fighting Sioux" and "UND" in their writings. Before you might have read right over it without even thinking about it; now you are more sensitive to it, and rightly so.
My access to online Herald archives, which go back to 1995, show more than 4,100 references to the term "Green and White," and many of them are instances where "Green and White" was used as a substitute for "Fighting Sioux," or "Sioux." And I would wager a bet that I would find thousands more examples if the archives went farther back than 1995.
"Green and White" also is the common term that is associated with the annual spring football game at UND, as in the "Green and White intersquad game."
Below is the earliest example that I can find in the Herald archives. It is from a UND hockey game story about a series with Alaska Anchorage. Notice the quote from then-UND coach Dean Blais. I never knew Blais as someone who was anti-nickname or someone who wanted the name change to something else.
BY Herald Staff Report
November 20, 1995
If Alaska Anchorage ever has any thoughts of playing somewhere else than in the Western Collegiate Hockey Association, the Seawolves would probably get UND's vote to move on.
For the eighth straight time, the Seawolves beat the Sioux in Anchorage late Saturday night, this time tacking a 7-3 victory on top of Friday's 4-2 win over UND. Last year, the only team Anchorage swept all year was UND. The weekend sweep this time marked Anchorage's first of this season. ``They like playing against the Green and White, evidentally,'' UND coach Dean Blais said.
Take the usage of "Green and White" for what it is: something that Herald reporters have been doing for years. Not some silly plan to sneakily and subliminally plant the seed for a new nickname in the collective mind of the public that reads their sports stories.
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Chris Wiseman decides he wants to be a Yote afterall.
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We need to get the message to Faison that UND fans do not want to play School of Mines and that doing so could hurt our chances of making the playoffs next year. He needs to be reminded that only D1 wins count in the eyes of the selection committee. Do you part and send him a message to encourage him to schedule a game against ANY FCS school. Sending him the link of the open dates would be good too. You can email him at brian.faison@athletics.und.edu I just emailed him. Lets get him the message that us a s fans are serious about this issue.
I am sure he knows this already. He wouldn't be worth his salt as an AD if he didn't. But, it might be good to show him how important this issue is to UND fans. All that said, if you feel the need to remind him of the importance of having an FCS opponent vs. a lower division visitor, please, please, please, be respectful.
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This should be filed under a thread called "Media Stories NOT on the Sioux name," but there isn't one, so I highjacked this one. The first link below is about the most important meeting of the year for the NCAA, which is going on this week, when they talk about the most pressing issues facing the organization and its members, and nary a mention about American Indian team nicknames. I realize that the NCAA isn't going to discuss pending litigation out in the open in a setting like this, but the point is, the story linked below goes through a litany of major challenges that the NCAA faced in 2011 and will face down the road, and the Spirit Lake lawsuit doesn't even appear as a blip on the national radar screen. I've also included the full agenda in the second link below. This controversy has been a major flare up, at least regionally, for the past three years, and it still has not resonated with the national public to even merit a brief mention in a nationally respected higher ed trade publication in a story about major concerns for the NCAA. There's still a lot of work to do if the nickname is going to be saved.
http://www.insidehig...nual-convention
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I am extremely happy with what seems like a quality "get" for UND. After looking at his UNC career bio, it looks like he was used in a limited number of situations and didn't really fair that great, not many attempts and yet a couple of picks against lesser competition, such as Georgia Southern. He's stuck behind a to-be junior QB with another to-be sophomore waiting in the wings. His high school credentials look solid, you could even say stellar. I really like his size (6'6" 215 pounds) and the potential maturity he'll bring to the young QBs. At least, with that kind of size, he'll be able have good down field vision and be able to throw over the O-line without bonking the ball off their helmets or allowing the D to get a hand on it. Looks like he has roots in Kansas City and likes playing pick-up basketball on the side. He was a business major at UNC.
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Fair point, but I think there's a big difference between taking a chance on a local kid with some baggage, and adding a juco quarterback from California who may have some maturity issues, and who may not have a grasp on reality. Hopefully he was kidding when he tweeted that he could have started for any college he's seen this bowl season.
Well, he doesn't suffer from confidence issues. That's at least one thing he's got going for him.
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Frank B.C.'s allegations are supported by the emails and documentation obtained by the FOIA. He's not making them in a vacuum. This isn't created out of whole cloth. The reason for the scare tactics is that they know the petition process will likely have enough signatures. The documentation/emails is right there. Do you really think Frank B.C. would make such allegations if there was no support? How would that be for the side he supports? He's a smart guy.
But my question still remains. What would be in it for the Big Sky to enter into this alleged chicanery? The nickname is cool with them, right? Then why would they come out and say stuff that is contrary to their position, if that is indeed their position? Why not just let UND deal with it and move on unaffected? No one has shown me the reason why it behooves the Big Sky to make unnecessary waves on an issue that "is really no big deal" to them. Just doesn't add up.
The e-mails Frank cites prove nothing. The whole thing reminds me of religious zealots citing Bible versus, stretching and revising contexts and adding their own interpretation, all to fit their own particular ideology.
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Frank Black Cloud said Wednesday that Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton was spreading "deception and half-truths" about potential consequences for UND.
Black Cloud says Fullerton's words are "designed to scare and create fear" and are "strong words from a man who is the commissioner of a struggling DI conference."
Assistant Big Sky Commissioner Jon Kasper says the Big Sky has not lost any institutions during a period of conference transition, and has actually added two schools for all sports, and two others for football.
Why would the commissioner of the Big Sky want to "deceive" and "scare" people if the nickname, as Frank contends, is really no big deal to the Big Sky? Why would it even matter? Why would he even comment on it at all if it didn't matter to his conference? Why not just ignore the whole thing playing out in North Dakota?
Where is the payoff to the Big Sky for such tactics? If it doesn't matter to them, then why would they need to scare anyone about it? Just for shits and giggles, I guess.
And if you suggest the Big Sky is doing it as a favor to Kelley to get rid of the nickname, then I still have to ask why would the Big Sky go along with it if they could care less about the damn nickname? I just don't see how a quid pro quo scenario makes sense in this case. They'd (Big Sky) just look at Kelley and say, "Ya know, Bob, the nickname's cool with us, so we're gonna continue to stay out of that whole mess you've got brew'n over there."
Please update me on the conspiracy so I can connect the dots as well as you and Frank are.
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My apologies up front if this is already posted somewhere. Ran across this on my Facebook, even though it says it was published back in July.
UND is rated #2 by this independent ranking.
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Smith Hall? Put the shovel down. You're only making it worse.
Real men live in WALSH: Where All Ladies Seek Happiness.
Hey, what can I say? I was a late applicant so they stuck me in Smith with all the frosh. I swear I was the oldest student in the hall. They called me "grandpa" and the like. But I made a killing bootlegging booze and overcharging for my services. I hope the statute of limitations has run out on that little admission.
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Not a former UND player, but a nice story nontheless about someone with local connections.
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I believe I heard that the arena has a policy not to allow ANY petitions on-site, as allowing one group in with petitions would open the door to many others... It says nothing about their stance on the Fighting Sioux name.
I am sure is Sic is very aware of this. His point about this whole thing creating "strange bedfellows," and in this case, somewhat estranged bedfellows, is spot on.
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1993? Rookie.
Yeah, that's when I enrolled at UND (after 3 years of fruitless efforts and successful partying at another school -- NOT NDSU), and was introduced to the Pepper two days before classes started. A bunch of guys and I Rollerbladed there (the original, on University Ave.) from Smith Hall, and I fell in love with the place even before I got there from all of the stories my more Pepper-experienced pals told me along the way.
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Read the 1st comment :
Scare tactics is all this is. As a UND student-athlete, I hope and pray that these petitions get enough signatures to completely mess EVERYTHING up. It will be a disaster, and something big will change. UND doesn't need to be in the Big Sky. If we are going to move forward, we should at the very least go to the Summit League/Missouri Valley where USD, NDSU, and SDSU are. How stupid. My teammates always get on my case because of my ideas. They say we need to get rid of the nickname so we can get into better tournaments against better teams and so we can get better recruits. Frankly, I don't give a rip about good tournaments or better recruits. We did just fine for 80 years with the nickname, it's not the end of the world as we know it just because a few babied, scholarship-covered kids from California won't come up and play. Good. It gives more of an opportunity for NORTH DAKOTA people to participate in athletics at the University of NORTH DAKOTA. Don't give me crap about how the Indians don't want the nickname, they do. Don't kid yourself. This whole process is crap. I'm not even allowed to bring a water bottle with a Sioux logo on it on the bus to our tournaments. A WATER BOTTLE. If somebody got offended by my water bottle, I would laugh at them. What should be offensive is that we have a bunch of PC morons dumping 80 years of tradition down the toliet. I'm sick of it. Sign the petitions people!
A UND student-athlete can get behind this effort, but not some of you alleged fans. Your really should be ashamed of yourselves, being so willing to roll over and be submissive. Grow a pair!!!
Don't believe everything you read on a blog, especially that one. People troll and sock puppet on there all the time. Plus, if he/she is a UND athlete, I feel sorry for him/her on their lack of knowledge on how conference invites and membership works.
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WTH? TRUE believers have the ham grinder. Turkey? Are you from Edina?
You must be a reformed Red Pepper customer.
I am an orthodox customer!
No but I went to summer hockey camp once with a bunch of cake eater brats from Edina. That's as close as I've gotten.
No offense intended to C. Gaarder. That kid's gonna be a stud here.I was introduced to turkey grinders back in 1993 and never deviated from it. I'll have to get daring and try the ham sometime.
And about the quality of the food vs. the ambiance. It's mostly the tradition and ambiance and legend of Bruce Tellman that drives the nostalgia and so-called "pimping." If your not from Grand Forks, an alum of UND or a UND athletics fan, you probably will never get it.
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I've never understood the infatuation with the Red Pepper..................
I'd take a microwavable Flatlander/Pugsley's Taco Grinder over one of their's any day.....................................
Sacrilege! The white sauce alone is worth the trouble. I'll take a whole turkey grinder with taco meat heated right now, please!
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Damn liberal, PC WDAZ!!! Now they got a guy that sounds exactly like Big Sky commissioner Doug Fullerton on the phone and made him say negative things about UND's nickname and the school's future in the conference. Damn it to hell! First the Herald makes up quotes and attributes them to Fullerton and now DAZ ups the ante and hires a voice imitator to stoop even lower.
See for yourself.
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Have you ever seen the quote where Mr. Douple actually said this? This is from the Kolpack article that started this:
"The University of North Dakota asked an athletic conference it once considered joining to publicly come out against accepting the Fighting Sioux as a member until the controversial nickname and logo issue was resolved, according to Summit League Commissioner Tom Douple."
No actual quote. Or real proof. And later:
"Commissioner Douple did not want to go into further detail on the issue, but when asked why he agreed to UND’s request – that the Summit League would publicly forward this idea – he said, “In support of the (UND) president. He thought it would help them and the board move quicker.” "
We don't have a quote, just Kolpack's interpretation. And Douple went along with the idea to support a school that wasn't a member of the conference, even though it was going to put the conference in the middle of a PR mess. That doesn't make sense to most people. I would need actual quotes with some other evidence before believing that article.
"Journalism is long gone out the window. 'Journalists' are just people. They shouldn't really have any more influence than me and you. They get things wrong a lot. They control the message of the country. I have learned many things about this country thanks to youtube that the MSM doesn't ever talk about." -- Cratter.
^^^^Couldn't have said it better myself, and I speak from personal experience.
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I think people just want the truth as to what is happening in this situation.
Fair enough, no media is totally unbiased ... but you've got to ask yourself, do you want to get your information from an off-the-cliff biased political blog that cares nothing about UND and UND athletics and that is using the popular and devisive nickname issue (something that the public can easily identify with) as a means to achieve its (and Al Carlson's) true ulterior goal -- to bring down and restructure the State Board of Higher Education? It all depends on what flavor kool-aid you want to drink.
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Oil Booms in North Dakota
in Community
Posted
Nice move by UND and the State Board! This is a clear example of UND serving the state's current needs.
Meanwhile, down south....
http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/347821/ Not a good sign for the nanoscale industry.