star2city

Other reasons: - Because Sac State or Portland State could leave, the Big Sky is practically forced to add schools within a year. - The Great West gets a potentially mortal blow, certainly to their auto bid. (Sac State would like this, as it would damage Cal-Davis’ football, with whom they are both competing long-term for a WAC bid). - With the Great West damaged, Big Sky stability improves (it becomes much less likely that Sac State or Portland State would leave for the Great West/Big West.) - It’s probably less time consuming and cheaper to travel to Denver for most schools than it is to each other. - As travel partners, UNC and Denver would be the most convenient combo in the Big Sky. - Since their are a lot of alumni of Big Sky schools in the Denver, those alumni can go to a game (and reinvolve themselves with their school), when they wouldn’t have the time to go back to Bozeman or Pocatello. - Denver media: i.e. press in the Rocky Mountain News and Denver Post - UNC is similar to existing Big Sky schools. - Only one school, UNC, is a provisional Div I team. This is not the logistic problem that two provisional teams are. - Denver metro is a recruiting area for all the Big Sky teams. Coaches can now promise that a Denver high school athlete will be able to play in front of friends and family during his college career. -Denver basketball is on the rise, and their winter sports are more than respectable. - UNC football is more than respectable. - The Big Sky Conference tournament in the Pepsi Center - Corporate sponsorships will be more attainable because of higher media visibility

Yeah, and if the Big Sky is moving into the eastern Dakota's, Altitude's coverage area certainly doesn't anticipate it:

Fans of our two former conference mates are getting all lathered up again, with the recent statements by the Big Sky Commissioner and the Forum and Argus-Leader articles. NDSU's odds increase for Big Sky: But the Forum, Kolpack, Taylor, et al. fail to take a deeper look at what has been transpiring behing the scenes for the last two months. In addition to the Denver/UNC rumor to the Big Sky posted on the Bisonville site by a UNC fan, take a look at these items: First this story from Denver: Altitude Sports - New Cable Satellite Network Then, the Big Sky announces that their games will be on Altitude Sports: Altitude Sports & Entertainment and Big Sky Conference Reach Multi-Year Telecast Agreement Now, Altitude Sports has signed a distribution agreement with DISH Network, practically assuring that it will survive (unlike Victory Sports in Minnesota): DISH Network First Major Distributor to Broadcast Altitude's Network So, a new sports network based in Colorado, that only has been signing up Colorado-based sports teams (including deals with Division II Metropolitan State basketball and the RMAC), also signs a deal with the Big Sky Conference, that has no Colorado exposure? Behind the scenes, the University of Denver has known to have been working on television deals to get into a new conference and out of the SunBelt. Putting two and two together, it is rather apparent that Denver and UNC are going to be added to the Big Sky. The Big Sky last had a non-football playing team with Gonzaga, and will allow it again because of the publicity and money Denver will bring. Fullerton has not mentioned Denver as a candidate because it is poor etiquette among conference commissioners to mention a school belonging to another conference as an expansion candidate. The whole expansion discussion by the Big Sky is August is likely a farce, as the real decision was made on June 3rd when the Big Sky signed the agreement with Altitude Sports. So what does this do for NDSU/SDSU? Screws them big time. Not only will the Big Sky not be inviting them, but the Great West Conference will lose a founding member, UNC, and be down to five. The Great West will not be an auto bid conference unless Sac State leaves the Big Sky and joins the Big West/Great West. In the meantime, the MidCon, who was hoping to unload Southern Utah to the Big Sky, is still stuck with them. Their choices now seem be to adding one team, or adding Utah Valley State for a SUU travel partner and two other teams. It would be highly improbable that they would add Utah Valley and NDSU/SDSU, as that would mean three teams in the conference on Div I probation. A more likely approach is that they will add one team (TxAM-CC ?), and wait to see if SUU gets in the Big Sky if/when Sac State leaves. If chances of conference affiliation seems low for the the ‘SU’s now, their situation by the end of August is likely to be much less hopeful.

Tony: Your posting is incredibly magnanimous, suspiciously so. In education, all parties can and should be winners. Same as in macroeconomics: the US standard of living has been rising almost continuously. But in sports, there are winners and losers. That’s part of the joy (or agony) of it. As far as UND vs NDSU athletics, a rivalry will continue, only the form has changed to a business rivalry. When NDSU left the NCC, it dissolved what business partnership there was. NDSU has stated it wants more regional and national publicity. That means it wants more sports coverage in, for example, the Bismarck Tribune, which is one of only two newspapers in ND that has statewide influence. Unless the Bismarck Tribune goes to smaller print or more pages, some other subject will get less press if NDSU gets more. It’s that simple. You seem to fault my competitive argument as a character flaw, when it is a natural and proper outcome of a business rivalry. There is only so much discretionary income available for entertainment spending. If you think I wish NDSU evil or something, you’re sadly mistaken. I have no problem stating that NDSU’s (and North Dakota’s) deal with Alien Technology can be a economic turning point for the state. (BTW, the NDSU collaboration with the well-respected combinatorial chemistry company Symyx could be another important beginning, IMO.) As far as NDSU’s athletic teams, I certainly hope they don’t embarrass North Dakota. A really fertile ground to preach this message would seem to be Bisonville (ever heard of it? ), as there seems an inordinate proportion of its populace holds completely irrational and destructive views of UND. They need an example in mature discourse.

OK, I’ll be the heavy here. How much of TB’s issues has been his demeanor compared with his lack of flattering boosters’ egos? I know DB had his issues with him, but if TB is such a problem, shouldn’t TC and ES be getting more flack? After all, as REA board members, they hired him and the buck stops with them. Didn’t the REA Board, TC, ES, and an Engelstad family rep included, approve (or even mandate) the annual financial goals for the REA, including financing the Betty, that TB has to meet? Wouldn’t a lot of the grumbling about REA prices be directed at any REA manager, no matter who he was? Perhaps it is a job requirement that TB take some flack, which few UND insiders could stomach, rather than the board. I personally have tremendous confidence in TC and ES, and I also believe that they have quite aggressive plans for UND’s future. Those plans don’t come cheap. As great as Ralph’s gift was, I am sure he realized it would create changes that some fans would not like. With a waiting list for season tickets, it would be foolhardy to expect REA pricing to come down with such high demand, even without TB. It is also in UND’s overall best interest to showcase the REA as much as possible, even if it means practicing on the Olympic ice. Welcome to the world of big-time biz .. err ... athletics.

I can certainly understand a level of concern if the U of Mary were brought into the NCC. Because of history, it certainly seems like a step down in competition for UND. But considering that for much of the last century we played Morningside routinely, U of Mary is already above Morningside’s level now in every sport except maybe men’s basketball. It is also likely that U of Mary would be even more commmitted to intercollegiate athletics than Augustana currently is and would have greater fan support in Bismarck than Augustana has in much larger Sioux Falls. There is another reason to consider U of Mary: their membership in the NCC could foster more support for the Fighting Sioux in the western part of the state. Neither UND athletics (nor NDSU athletics) gets all that much media attention except for hockey and football radio broadcasts in the west. With the existence of a western ND NCC team, UND athletic teams would enjoy a higher western profile, probably even higher than if UND went Div I (at least initially). Admitting the U of Mary could actually negate the extra publicity NDSU is attempting to garner in the west by going Div I and would bring a lot goodwill toward UND by counteracting the west’s view of an “arrogant” eastern ND. As an aside, the political alignment in North Dakota is also changing. What was formerly an east vs west, or an urban vs rural alignment, is changing politically to a metro Fargo vs. rest of the state alignment. By admitting U of Mary, the “rest of the state” and even a substantial minority of Fargo would be solidly NCC country. Only if NDSU ever gets in a regional conference and has success in Div I would this change. In the four NCC states, the ideal remaining media cities in which the NCC could select a school are Bismarck, Rochester, Grand Island, Rapid City, and, of course, the Twin Cities. Rapid City really doesn’t have a school capable, while Rochester and Grand Island have nearby schools. If the final NCC map included a Twin Cities school, the U of Mary, and UN-Kearney, the conference would be solid both from a media and travel perspective. Ten schools would also ensure the survival of the NCC (and the NSIC), even if two NCC schools later moved up to Div I.

From the Naples Daily News, an article on the The Disney Tip-Off Classic

Jerome and Shaq

Find me one bisson fan that wouldn't trade those four minor-sport championships for one home football playoff game. You'll be hard pressed. And to think that a whole generation or more of bisson fans will have passed through the Fargo Dome and have never witnessed a playoff game. No wonder the Fargo Dome atmosphere is like a masoleum: the fans have lost any memory of the excitement of a playoff game.

Speaking of a nascent aerospace industry: Hop to Hoople Takes on an Aerospace Meaning ? Any civilian applications out there?

With today's Fargo Forum editorial: The 119th must find a new role, it seems official that the Fargo business community has officially thrown in the towel. But if they didn’t have other intentions for using the vacated Hooligans facilities, I doubt their stance would be as passive: Mid-American Aviation Foreign Trade Zone The growth of the aerospace industry in ND has been impressive: Cirrus / TAG / UND in Grand Forks, Goodrich in Jamestown, and KMM in Killdeer/Hettinger, among others. A major coup would be locating a future Cirrus Jet assembly plant in the state (seeCirrus Business Booms, Jets Next? ). Fargo, you can bet, is getting their bid together now.

BigGame: Out of curiosity, what are the reasons for the lack of community support for Minot State athletics? If Minot State were ever to consider upgrading its athletic program, it should consider the Lindenwood route. Lindenwood, an NAIA school, is supposedly adding NCAA Div I hockey and will play in the CHA with Bemidji State while staying in the NAIA for all other sports. If Bemidji State can play Div I hockey, why not, Minot?

With UNO getting the vast majority of its ticket revenue from hockey, it is in its best interests to stay with conference members that have similar mutual interests. If the CCHA should ever boot UNO because of regional geography, UNO would have some assurance that their NCC brethren would, at a minimum, offer scheduling relief for hockey. This far overrides any travel cost savings by joining the MIAA.

All-in-all, a very positive column in today's Star-Tribune:Patrick Reusse: North Dakota sees changes Excerpt: For the Twin Cities media to acknowledge UND athletic achievements is a sign of respect that would have seemed inconceiveable a decade ago. For all the local concerns about the hockey coaching change or ticket price increases, it is important to keep our own personal irritants in perspective. For the Bison fans lurking, you have to love these quotes from Reusse:

aff: Midwestern conferences (Horizon, MOValley, MidCon, MAC (except Marhall and UCF in football) and the Big Ten) have been a sea of calm in this current episode of shuffling. If/when the Big East implodes later this decade, that's when the Horizon and MidCon will see changes. Ask an average Minnesota fan or Boston College fan if they would give up a national hockey championship for an appearance in the big dance, and they would laugh in your face. Why do SDSU and NDSU fans always trivialize UND's seven Division I championships when other Div I schools recognize UND as the gold standard in the sport. How is national excellence and prominence in anything going to be a downfall? Your coments point out another weakness in the whole move by SDSU to Div I in that your goal is to be the next Gonzaga. There are 250 other low level DI chools that have that same dream. Well, guess what. Most have failed miserably.

Somebison: Thanks for helping to make my point. Looking at the Wayne State schedule, all the Michigan CCHA teams are totally sandbagging them. Couple that with the fact that Wayne State does not have their own home arena and has crappy game starting times, their program lacks credibility. If they received help from an influential ally or two, their status would rise at least among their own alumni. Of course, all of this is somewhat mute because Wayne State is not even Division I yet.

So what exactly were Miller and Oien doing up until August 2003? Here's the article on Kennesaw State and North Florida, , which Nodakvindy referred to and was posted on d2football by RD17. Neither school has officially declared DI intentions, but both are getting serious looks. Anyone want to bet that the Big Sky has not had at least feelers out for Central Washington and Western Washinton? They are struggling with scheduling in DII and may be forced up. If you are a school south of the Ohio River and East of the Mississipppi, it is much easier to get conference affiliation even as a provisional school. A school in Tennessee would have no less than four lower level conferences to choose from: Atlantic Sun, Big South, Ohio Valley, and the Southern. A school moving up has bargaining power down there. In the Midwest and West, the conferences can pick and choose who they want and when they want them.

There's been a discussion of Kierah Kimbrough on a Gopher women's BB board: http://p074.ezboard.com/fgopherfastbreakcl...picID=222.topic For those out-of-town, here was the Herald article on signing Bagaason.

Two articles on Zajac (apologies if they've been posted elsewhere): http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?...13064254390.xml http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/.../27/516004.html

If UND should ever announce a move to Division I, facilities, media capability, endowments, and a monetary reserve should already be in place in the likelihood of several years of “drought”. But more importantly, I would expect a conference affiliation plan to be well along in the informal talking stages, rather than seeking a conference after declaring Div I intentions. This is a major issue I have with SDSU and NDSU, as they seem to act as if moving to Division I is a series of studies (i.e. Carr Report) and then a paperwork reclassification exercise, when in fact conference affiliation is the key issue, which normally requires an extraordinary amount of political contacts, personal interaction skills, and business knowledge (although a school can get lucky; i.e. Southern Utah). A school might be perfect for a conference, but a single personal snub can change the whole decision-making process. You might take issues with this, but clearly, the public rebuke that the Big Sky gave showed that the conference homework was not done up front by the SUs’. It is fine for Chapman and Miller to privately declare their hope for Big Sky admission, but their public declaration also clearly signaled to the Mid-Con the lack of enthusiasm towards it. If you were a Mid-Con president, would you be enthusiastic to vote in reluctant partners? If you were a Big Sky president, would you vote in the SU’s now, when you know five years down the road that, if new members are immediately needed, that they would accept your offer instantly? The SUs’ have already ineptly dealt with their two biggest conference hopes, the Big Sky and Mid-Con, yet no one seems to acknowledge that. As far as Kooistra and any other anti-Div I views in SD, Miller and Oien helped create the issue, when they stated in the summer of 2002 that they wouldn’t pursue Div I unless they had a conference affiliation by August 2003. Miller and Oien should have just stated their Div I vision and why they were pursuing it without condition. They must have badly miscalculated the Big Sky’s intent and the difficulty of obtaining conference membership, and IMHO, richly deserve criticism for breaking their word. I wouldn’t be overly concerned about Kooistra, but I would be hoping and praying that Miller and Oien don’t make more problems for your institution. As far the Mid-Con, a north/south arrangement with NDSU, SDSU, and UNC included presents even worse issues than an east/west alignment: North South NDSU-SDSU ORU-Cent Oakland-IUPUI SUU(Denver)-UNC Valpo-Chic St UMKC-West Ill Oakland, IUPUI, Valpo, and Chicago St would all want at least Western Illinois in the North, and Western Ill would be highly disagreeable about being placed in a South division. Five votes against at a minimum. Swapping West Ill with SDSU might be possible, but then NDSU and West Ill would make horrible travel partners, and UMKC-SDSU wouldn’t be that much better. The North South alignment does not help or at best argues against bringing both NDSU and SDSU in as travel partners. No one Dakota school could easily gain admission to the Horizon. Even under an ideal scenario, UND would not be admitted until at least a few years into the provisional period, and then only if a Minnesota school was also a member. There are some unique issues that might allow UND more leverage with the Horizon than other conferences. First, the geographical footprint of the Horizon Conference is like the Big Ten, focused on Great Lakes States but lacking a Minnesota presence . When UM-Duluth gets their new arena built, UMD would be attractive, but would also need a travel partner. Secondly, the face of the Horizon is likely to change in three-five years as private schools like Detroit Mercy, Loyola (Chicago), and Butler would be likely be lured to the Atlantic 10, if /when the Big East splits into football and basketball conferences. The Horizon would want to maintain a presence in Detroit by adding either Oakland or Wayne State (not yet Div I), and would also want to have a school in Indiana, so either Valpo or IUPUI from the MidCon could be added. Now, here’s where the scoffing comes: schools in this new Horizon conference would have an affinity or at least sympathy towards hockey and its money-making potential. (A conference like the MoValley would probably not look very favorably upon a school that emphasized hockey.) This is certainly not suggesting that the Horizon would sponsor hockey, but schools seek out other schools that have common athletic interests. Already, Wright State is building an on-campus rink, and schools such as UWGB, UW-Milw, Ill-Chicago (which used to have hockey), Wayne State (which has hockey), and Oakland (which could add hockey) are at least aware of the economic potential for hockey in their locales. From a business perspective, schools like Wright State or UW-GB could be inclined to campaign for conference membership for UND and UMD if they agreed to non-conference hockey games to help out fledgling programs. This scenario is several years from being anywhere close to reality, but it is one scenario opening a conference door available to UND and not to NDSU/SDSU.

jackrabbit1979, I never really expected to get a compliment from an SDSU fan (BTW, I am an admirer of your basketball programs), so thanks. Agreed that there can be compelling reasons to be a Division I institution, but when boosters and administrators become infatuated with the publicity potential, too often the results are not positive: financially, or by missing or neglecting non-athletic opportunitites because of the administrative focus on the div I move, or being viewed as the dregs of Div I. It’s fine to be optimistic on one hand, but I personally don’t think NDSU and SDSU Div I fans comprehend that a heavy dose of realism in the other hand is necessary and healthy. Responses to you and aff's points are on the next post.

Aff: If the media size/cable TV contract issues, or the "must add money to my pocket", or the 10-team vs 12-team arguments didn’t convince you, how about two more? First, if the Mid-Con really was to add the three teams of your choosing, and split into two divisions, the division break-out and travel partners would be this: East Oakland - IUPUI Valpo - Chicago St. W. Ill - UMKC West Oral Roberts - Centenary S. Utah (or Denver) - UNC NDSU - SDSU Note: no way would the Mich-Ind schools want Oral Roberts and Centenary (both faith-based schools who are committed travel partners) in the East, they would want W. Ill and UMKC ORU and Centenary would get stuck with horrible travel. They would firmly say ‘no’. Now if instead of NDSU-SDSU, there was another pair, say TAMCC-UTPA. With that pairing, a north-south division arrangement is possibie and ORU and Centenary would be more likely to vote affirmatively. Second and more important: The Mid-Con knows which schools are most likely to receive a conference upgrade: Southern Utah to the Big Sky and Valpo and Oakland to the Horizon League (if Butler and Detroit from that conference join the Atlantic 10). What they really need to guard against is if a fourth school moves, then the Mid-Con might lose its auto-bid. Adding one or three more schools would provide more insurance against the loss of their Auto-bid, but only if the schools are full Div I members (not provisional members). NDSU and SDSU, being provisional members, do not meet the “insurance” criteria which Mid-Con Presidents will demand. TAMCC, UTPA, IPFW, and Denver all would help the Mid-Con protect their auto-bid. NDSU and SDSU would provide no auto-bid insurance until 2008-2009. In my view, this issues prevents NDSU/SDSU from getting serious consideration until the summer of 2007, at best. Take it to the bank!

We’ll just make arrangements for the sun to hold its 1 PM (Noon standard time) position during the game. Admittedly, the economics of such a project would be extraordinarily difficult to justify. But an outdoor stadium on campus (in sunny fall weather) brings a vitality that on indoor arena cannot match.

As UND92,96 pointed out, the Canad Inn project about to start construction should help Alerus Center financials greatly. It will also mean the relationship between the Alerus and UND football will not be so critical. Perhaps this is just wishful thinking on my part, but if there was a athletics needs list at UND, it would include an indoor track, more adequate training facilities for the football team, and more indoor training space for non-VB/BB/hockey programs. Even without home football games, Memorial Stadium needs modernizing. Why not combine these needs into one? Finish demolishing the bleachers on the east side of Memorial. Extending toward the old Ralph, build a west-facing grandstand with a concourse that has modern concessions and restrooms and incorporate an indoor track and modernized athletic training equipment rooms within this grandstand complex. Late August and up to mid-October games would be played at the refurbished Memorial, with later games and playoffs at the Alerus. Both indoor and outdoor football fans would be somewhat mollified. Student seating could be on the West Side / visitors side. Install chairback seating (plastic, not leather ) on the east side grand stand as well as build suites, which would help pay the "mortgage". The Hyslop arena area could be converted entirely to baseball/softball/tennis/golf indoor training, while the east side grandstand/athletic complex would be for football/track and field use. Future stadium expansions could be done on the endzones, if that was ever warranted. The Alerus Center could bid on the Div II Championship Game without complaints that it is UND’s home field. A Div II football Hall of Fame could be made from a wing of the proposed NCAA Hockey Hall of Fame/museum complex near the Alerus to help entice the championship game. Troy State recently did something similar to impressively modernize its football stadium, as the new Grandstand is really just an intricate facade for a new athletic training and classroom complex. Here’s a picture: Movie Gallery Stadium. UND’s modernization wouldn’t need to be nearly on the scale of Troy State’s, or costly, to be effective. Anyway, this is probably really just fantasy with The Betty still to be paid for, but it never hurts to strive toward a dream.