JBB

Trivializing the nickname occurs both from your opponents and from within your own institution. In the opinion of many, Sioux-per dogs is not a proper way to honor a Sioux Warrior. I agree with your statement about the secondary effects of opponents trivializing the name not being an intended racist statement, all of it is unintended. But, the affects are real. On the other hand the commercialization seems somewhat hypocritical. I haven't declared your institution racist. The people you are offending have. I simply advocate their view since there is no way to use the icon without causing the transgressions against the people raising the objections. Thats why I hope NDSU discontinues its use. Rightly or wrongly, by using the icon your are implicating everyone. Its time to admit its use has become offense and change with the times.

Wanless took over at Sac State because it has so much upside. It also has an alumni base that is tired of playing doormat for Davis and struggling in the Big Sky. Almost all programs develop by attracting new, younger coaching talents. If Lennon has lost opportunity because of the poor performance of his team it only makes it more likely that he will move to Sac State because he will have less true opportunity. Apparently that fact hasnt cooled Wanless on the idea. I'd Keep an eye on the basketball coaches as well. The entire Sac State Athletic department needs rebuilding. I dont know how successfull the swiming coaches are but Id watch them too. Wanless would love to drain you. You know the history. And if he can offer the opportunity and dollars to likely candidates that have a high probabilty of success why not your coaches?

Its a good recruiting tactic for wrestling. I think overall we will see a more transfers for basketball and football too. In football the waiting period will be 5 years including the provisional. 2003 - 2007 is the probationary interval. Playoff eligiblity begins in 2008. Its going to be most difficult this year. Incoming redshrts will be Srs. in 2007. In 2004 incoming redshirst will be Srs in 2008 the first year of playoff eligibilty. So, it wont be much of a problem with a lessening impact each year. By 2005 it will have no practical impact on recruiting. The full ride dollars are going to speak loudly. At 2-10 the program can only look better unless coach bob is going to take us all the way down to an 0 fer. If thats the case it will be next year. We have a very tough schedule with a team that didnt show much last year. Baring a miracle in 2005 he is out. That will give a new D1 coaching staff 3 prime years to get ready. Sometime after 2008 you will become weary of the series and certainly wont hang around long enough to allow another 12 game winning streak to develop. The question is how many losses in a row will you tolerate before bailing out, or will NDSU become your big body bag road game for the money? We are now in the toughest recruiting year of the entire transition. The "Transition Bowl" that UC Davis and NDSU are discussing may help some. Its intended to give the teams a travel opportunity to a nice place and a post season game. Either way NDSU is now in the process of loading up. Of course first to worst gave you a break from your historically furious playoff appearances as well.

Sac State is the perfect opportunity for a young football coach, just like it was the perfect opportunity for Wanless. The sports programs are bad and many before them have failed to make improvements. But, if you can get the program up and running your going to look good. Lots of upside potential and very little downside. If you took over a going program like Babich and run it into the ground your future opportunites are probably in insurance sales. The fact that Lennon is interested is not suprising. What coach wouldnt want the opportunity. Of course enough money can be put on the table to keep him here but that still wont get him into D1AA football. That has to be an exciting proposition for any D2 coach.

Research dollars are part of the picture, but they are by no means the entire picture. When a university feels it is at the D1 level athletics will also be played at the D1 level. This does include research dollars, currently for NDSU they are at the highest level in history. The research facilities are all being upgraded and continued growth is expectted far into the future. The cooperation between local business and NDSU has never been greater. Fargos tremendous growth is reflected in the growth at NDSU. it also includes student body: NDSU's undergraduate programs are attracting a D1 size student body, it also has to do with Graduate Programs: NDSU is at a D1 level with its graduate schools, New programs are being added on a continuos basis. it also has to do with progress and direction of the University: NDSU is growing with a new Downtown Campus housing the school of Architecture, a new business college building is being built (this will create dramatic growth in the school of business), new dormitories are being built, All you have to do is drive around campus. You will quickly see all the new buildings have at least doubled the size of the campus and the construction activities seem to be everywhere. it also has to do with faculty: salaries are on the rise and this is in line with the NDSU goal of retaining faculty members and attracting new quality faculty (this is a very important factor in the future of NDSU, more so than athletics). One area where NDSU has to focus is on a new library. If anyone has seen the new library on the SCSU campus you know what an A1 facility is.

First to worst. On a much more serious note, WCCO just announced the death of Ralph Englestad.

I think PCM answers his own question and exposes the myopia that exists about Decision 1. Its not about athletics. Its about the Universities. As the Universities grow all programs including athletics grow. A rising tide lifts all boats as they like to say. thats why most of the people associated with the insitution in Grand Forks are so against this. The move to D1 for the athletic programs of their former peers is a symbol of the overall growth at these Universities and it makes them uncomfortable. When we were in Brookings for the NDSU game we walked around the campus. It is beautifull. Some of the people in Brookings that I talked to dont really understand whats driving the move to D1. They forget its about the university first. They dont realize how far SDSU has come and what is happening there now. They can only see as far as the next game and they want to play Augi. This issue cant be discussed without talking about the entire University. The Grad School Dean at SDSU knows this and coincidently is in favor of the move. I think thats a very important point to keep in mind.

Its being reported elswhere that Terry Wanless is about to fire Sac State's football coach. He isn't about to settle for mediocrity. Is it true that Dale Lennon is his first choice? It would be a good move: They know one another, its a chance for Dale to move up to the Big Sky and D1AA football, he would get a raise in prestige and money, he could build a program instead of taking one over, if successfull he could use it as a stepping stone to a larger D1 school, the situtation at uendd is deteriorating.

When you declare yourself the winner you should also go home. I hope you do that. In the meantime, if you are really a supporter, the state of disgrace your institution finds itself should be a matter of concern to you. Maybe you should ask yourself the question why it is so important to perpetuate the cultural exploitation your institution is engaged in? I certainly hope NDSU makes the right decision and joins the growing group of Universities that will no longer aid and abet the deplorable institutional behavior displayed by uendd. By striking a sympathetic example with the others we may be able to help the small minority of individuals that create a derivative form of racism by trivializing your mascot, however crudely, as some of you are so fond of pointing out. I would think it would be very hard to condemn the derivative behavior without condemning the primary cause.

There is certainly some confusion. The schedule I posted comes from the NDSU 2002 media guide. As you probably know, home games used to alternate year to year. Several years back consecutive home games rotate throughout the schedule. NDSU recently finished 2 in a row in Grand Forks.

You assume all other dates are correct then? Only the NDSU date is wrong?

Nothing worth comment on that round except to say there was a refreshing lack of slander and liable from the uenders. That's curious? Its best that NDSU eliminate the logo and replace it and all your institutions nickname refrences with the insitution's intitials both in print and broadcast. Maybe when your offending behaviors are isolated you will finally develop a respectable self image?

I have to say PurpleMavFans eyes open approach is very refreshing for this forum. He is expressing thoughts that really arent welcome here. Unfortunately, no real debate about the merits of a D1 NCC could ever be undertaken because of the advisarial position the sue sox community, as a whole, has taken. It hard to be heard above all the shouting and foaming at the mouth nay sayers.

Lorna Jost sounds llike she would fit in well with the Bridges group on your campus? She is a reasearch assistant after all!!

All of you need to read todays Forum. Im sure youll see much of your own unbecoming behavior reflected in the actions of some of your leaders and the benefactor that seems to have purchased your institution. http://www.in-forum.com/articles/?id=23280 The cost to the image and respect to your insititution continues to mount and erode its remaining respectability. Certainly the persistence of a legitimate point of view doesn't invalidate it. In the same way repeating acts of disrespect or exploitation DO NOT validate them them. In your willingness to attack the integrity and well being of others that might disagree with you reinforces the notion that institutionally and on individual levels "you" are in fact racist and given over to prejudicial and possibly violent or cruel reactions in your attempts at suppression of thoughts, ideas and beliefs different from your own. That's the problem with ralphs letter and the responses of people like earl strindon and many of you. Groundless counter arguments, loaded with rather insincere and convenient contriteness, contrived to draw attention from the issue plaguing your institution do not absolve accountability any more than the intellectually bankrupt slanders. You are what you are. Its rather a shame really. I hope NDSU has the courage to go ahead with the discussions and arrive at a policy that will no longe implicate NDSU in your unsavory behavors.

Some of you attempt to dismiss by discrediting individuals that have an opposing opinion. This is not a valid response. Others by answering one argument with another, contrived and often contrite. Others just lash out with any cruel comment they think might hurt. None of it faces your problem or addresses the issue before you. Avoidance and denial come to mind. Efforts at patronization have so far fallen short. How much is your university willing to do to placate those you offend, or do you plan to simply stand in defiance as the issue erodes the image of your university and its community? Hopefully, next year only the initials of your university will appear in our game programs and be spoken in our broadcasts. I congratulate the leadership at NDSU for grapple with this issue. Even though you refuse to confront your problem, others around you, no matter how reluctantly, are finally begining to take action. That should certainly be tellin you somehting.

The NDSU schedule for 2003 shows the sue soxers traveling to Fargo to Play the Fabulious Fargo Dome October 25. Maybe you read your schedule wrong? 2003 - NDSU 9/6 open 9/13 Cal Davis @ Fargo 9/20 UNC @ Fargo 9/27 SDSU @ Fargo 10/4 @ Augustana 10/11 USD @ Fargo 10/18 @ UNO 10/25 sue soxers @ FARGO 11/1 @ SCSU 11/8 Mankato @ Fargo 11/15 open 2004 shows NDSU @ sue soxers 2005 Shows sue soxers @ NDSU I suppose the 04 & 05 schedules are not very accurate since both show full NCC schedules and presumably NDSU will be playing D1AA ball.

You have a problem its called denial.

This argument of yours, besides being a very immature and distasteful

Caps are yours of course. The conference affiliation is only 1 of 4 criteria. The answer for NDSU is out there someplace, but since you don't know what it is you think nobody else does? Do you suppose there is nothing going on behind the scenes? Do you think every decision, all negotiations, are going to take place in public for you to judge and criticize? Do you even think it will play out in the next 12 months? I think NDSU has a handle on this, your knowledgeable and respected insights not with standing. After the provisional year if NDSU elects to advance to D1 you can be sure a solution is a certainty no matter what you and yours are aware of. In fact, that's my hunch. I believe this is being worked out and NDSU is confident that the outcome will be beneficial to their future plans. as a footnote I would like to expand a bit: Many people criticized the consultant contract. They said it was unnecessary. NDSU had already made up their minds. The consultants were just paid to reflect the mindset of the NDSU administration. If this is true, the conference clause was inserted because NDSU was confident of a solution, or, it is just as meaningless as the rest of the report.

Im certain than NDSU held out a D1AA NCC as a possibility but interest from the conference schools was clear at the begining of the process so I dont think it was a critical path. I think if you re-read the post you will begin to get the idea why I think many of you wish NDSU ill. Most have a critical or cynical tone rather than analytical. The position of your university community including the local paper has been less than complimentary if not down right obstructionist. Ed Schultz has not helped in this matter although I thnk he is now muzzled. Most of the judgments passes by many of the posters are black and white. This issue is very nebulous with a lot of political posturing. The concdlusion that NDSU has gone against its consultants postion is rather niave (sp). It constitiutes a rush to judgment by the failure to recognize the evolving nature of process.

Why dont you hire some Native Americans to raise that objection? It might be similar to the sham of blessing the Englestad Arena. Youv been watching way too much of "Dancing with Wolves", but misery loves company.

The point of view of most of you is, of course, to wish failure on the Decision 1 endeavor. But the recent post about the ongoing idea of a new conference is certainly intriguing. This New non-football conference would be what the schools need for all sports but football. With that conference in place an independent football schedule doesn

I hate to interject but really this is so funny! Your insensitivity and greed have painted you into a very uncomfortable corner.

He certainly would have been a competitor in the much coveted Golden Arm competition! Too bad for you home town boys. Klosterman and proxies needed all the help they could get. How is it that Lennon passed him up in favor of the perennial Harlon Hill favorite?