Midwestern Hawk
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Posts posted by Midwestern Hawk
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12 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:
So, after the NDSU game, what did UND's Quality Control coach's evaluation of the performance say? How about after Missouri State?
What was their plan to identify and make sure any missteps or errors weren't repeated in future games and did that get to Bubba and his staff?
Quality Control coach? Say what?
https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/2016/01/what_is_a_quality_control_coach_rutgers_assistant.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/sports/ncaafootball/alabama-college-football-coaches.html
Not looking to make work for anyone, and knowing I've never had a head FB coach title so my observations aren't as deep as others', but aren't there friends of Bubba or UND (Tom Dosch, Mike Berg, Mike Mannausau) that could take on such a role (sadly unpaid) and give honest feedback and tips on what to look out for or improve in the future?
From an engineering and manufacturing point of view, QC checks the product and if problems are identified works with QA (quality assurance, meaning the coaches) to make sure they aren't repeated.
This is needed desperately. It needs to be someone who can be honest with everyone involved. There have been some monumental coaching blunders this season, which affected not just the momentum of the game, but very, very likely the outcome of the game(MSU, SDSU), the outcome of the season and the direction of the program(NDSU).
If coaches are allowed to speak openly at staff meetings, I would never believe that coaches are not coming in after some of these games and saying "WTF is going on".
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14 hours ago, Irish said:
Agreed - but this is Bubba's 12 year as a head coach and God knows how many as an assistant at the College level. He showed absolutely no signs of figuring this out during the season when it cost us greatly. This shouldn't be rocket science. What is it going to take to wake him up?
Based on your summary, Bubba is likely not going to wake up and UND will continue to flutter around .500 with the occasional 7-4 playoff season which gets our hopes up.
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11 minutes ago, Parkers Pros said:
People want to love this football team. A lot of people love football more than they love hockey. It’s just that Hockey is relevant year over year. When UND was relevant at the end of DII the Alerus was sold out, full of students and season ticket holders. They traveled well. I remember there being conversations of how we were going to have to expand the Alerus center when we went division one. After Lennon left we took a step back at UND and he couldn’t meet the same expectations at SIU. We had some fun players but we didn’t have very good teams. If the product is good and relevant North Dakota will fill the building every time. Unfortunately it’s a fickle crowd.
Weather was bad, but the “crowd”/excitement level vs ISU as as lackluster as I have ever seen it.
How about after next season (I would predict between 3-8 to 7-4), Bubba steps down, Chaves steps down and Bubba becomes AD.
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2 hours ago, Nodak78 said:
The only thing we are missing is you calling about 6-7 plays and we would be conference Champs. Brush off the resume and send to Chaves and tell him you will be available Sat. Afternoon.
Even you would have called TO when NDSU didn’t take their dline off the field at our own 20. This isn’t rocket science.
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30 minutes ago, ToDaClub said:
Play clock starts immediately after the dead ball. Game clock starts once the chains are set.
TO and 2 first downs. USD would have drained the clock.
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15 minutes ago, Irish said:
Agreed - but this is Bubba's 12 year as a head coach and God knows how many as an assistant at the College level. He showed absolutely no signs of figuring this out during the season when it cost us greatly. This shouldn't be rocket science. What is it going to take to wake him up?
I’m really torn on all of this. He has done a really good job on many levels, but game management is not one of them . These “details” are the difference between 10-1 and 5-6 this fall.
At this point I’m afraid Bubba will be ~ 500 the next couple seasons and then we will need to start over again. it feels like this was the season to really get over the hump and we pissed it down our leg. The entire program and University was on the verge of greatness vs NDSU and Bubba froze on the 4th and 1 call. I still can’t believe he didn’t call a TO when NDSU didn’t take their DL off the field. That’s just pathetic.
I said this earlier but the success of the spring now feels like it was a mirage. The D will very likely be down a bit next year from this season and and the offense won’t be able to pickup the slack . And we will still have a handful of games where the game management is at a middle school level.
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9 minutes ago, rochsioux said:
Since UND had two first downs that may add a few seconds to the theoretical clock. The clock stops after a first down until the chains are set but I assume the 40 second play clock does not. So you may need add 6-10 second back for each first down. That would put the clock at 1:10-1:18.
Play clock does not start 'til the time clock begins. it fairly easily should have been :58 seconds before the play where Otis fumbled. I wonder if the staff even knows this? Of course its possible that MSU goes the 76 yards in 48 seconds, just a lot less likely than 1:39.
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6 minutes ago, petey23 said:
The 4th and 1 play I believe we snapped the ball with about 20 seconds left on the playclock.
Bubba and co have got to get all this figured out.
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22 minutes ago, rochsioux said:
There were 6 plays run but the clock only ran after 5 of them. A timeout was used after play number 6.
Let’s say each play takes 5 seconds and you snap the ball on average with 3 seconds on the play clock. The six plays should then take (5+37)*5+5=215 seconds or 3:35
If we started with 4:33 on the clock it should now be at 0:58.So the fumble by Otis took 10 seconds, all things being equal, MSU would have gotten the ball with :49 seconds left in the game at their own 24. Their game winning drive took 1:24.
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7 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:
... unless five all American offensive linemen want to become pilots.
I'd take them all....
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Hopefully this is a very short thread.
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1 hour ago, The Sicatoka said:
I see six full plays, the MSU TO, and the fumble play. Clock isn't running on change of possession to start drive. I could see about three minutes and a few seconds. That looks right.
What did MoiSt have for TO after the TO at 1:49?
Credit: They ran the ball -> no clock stoppages for incomplete passes.
Contrast out clock management at Mo St to the USD clock management in Vermillion:
- North Dakota 13-20 South Dakota
South Dakota at 05:52 South Dakota at 05:52 1st and 10 at USD25 SOUTH DAKOTA drive start at 05:52. 1st and 10 at USD25 Clock 05:52, Theis,Travis rush for 22 yards to the USD47, 1ST DOWN USD (Holm, Evan). 1st and 10 at USD47 Clock 05:12, Theis,Travis rush for 1 yard to the USD48 (Pierre, Chandon). 2nd and 9 at USD48 Clock 04:23, Theis,Travis rush for 10 yards to the UND42, 1ST DOWN USD (Larson, Noah;Holm, Evan). 1st and 10 at UND42 Clock 03:43, Theis,Travis rush for 8 yards to the UND34 (Galvin, Hayden;Holm, Evan). 2nd and 2 at UND34 Clock 03:00, Theis,Travis rush for 1 yard to the UND33 (Krzanowski, Dev;McNaboe, Ben). 3rd and 1 at UND33 Clock 02:11, Theis,Travis rush for 2 yards to the UND31, 1ST DOWN USD (Larson, Noah;McNaboe, Ben). 1st and 10 at UND31 TEAM rush for loss of 2 yards to the UND33. 2nd and 12 at UND33 TEAM rush for loss of 3 yards to the UND36, PENALTY UND unsportsmanlike conduct 15 yards to the UND21, 1ST DOWN USD. 1st and 10 at UND21 1st and 10. 1st and 10 at UND21 TEAM rush for loss of 2 yards to the UND23. 2nd and 12 at UND23 TEAM rush for loss of 2 yards to the UND25. 3rd and 14 at UND25 End of game, clock 00:00. 10 plays consumed 5:52. Nielsen would have run out the clock at Mo St and gone home with a win. Before swtich ing to victory formation and taking a knee, USD consumed 4 minutes in 5 plays.
Football Clock Management 101
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18 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:
I see six full plays, the MSU TO, and the fumble play. Clock isn't running on change of possession to start drive. I could see about three minutes and a few seconds. That looks right.
What did MoiSt have for TO after the TO at 1:49?
Credit: They ran the ball -> no clock stoppages for incomplete passes.
Agree on the NO PASSES comment.
That was Mo ST first TO. On the 6 plays we ran pre-TO, we averaged 27 seconds per play(6 plays 2:44 elapsed = 164 seconds = 27.3. Couldn't we, in theory, have run off 39 seconds per play(and that does NOT take into account the actual time consumed by the play)? If so, the after 6 plays, there is only 39 seconds left in the game instead of 1:49 or MoSt has to burn all its timeouts. Is my math correct?
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13 minutes ago, Irish said:
The sad part is that you could make this comment in a different thread and no one would be able to figure which of the games this year you are referring to. Bubba has absolutely done some good things for this program and has improved both the talent and atmosphere. The problem is that some things like game management need a serious change and Bubba is allergic to serious change - We saw some real bad game decisions and clock management earlier in the season and here we are after the last game of the season talking about this exact same thing after another brutal loss. Agreed Bubba isn't going anywhere soon but we really need an adult in the house to have a talk with him - Chaves seems awol so I'm guessing it won't get done. My frustration is that we'll see the exact same Sideline Bubba next year.
Yep. Bubba and the staff has done many great things, but we are chasing the greatest dynasty in the history of college football and we will NEVER have a good enough roster to compensate for the continuous game management/ clock management mistakes.
I went back through the MSU game, someone tell me where I am wrong. 40 second play clock in college football correct? We run the "dipsy doodle" reverse pass play on 4th and 2 at the MSU 29 with a 28-17 lead and MSU takes over with 6:36 to go. They score 6 plays and 2:03 later to make it 28-24 UND.
UND takes over with 4:33 to go. Here is what transpires:
- North Dakota 28-25 Missouri St.
North Dakota at 04:33 North Dakota at 04:33 1st and 10 at UND25 NORTH DAKOTA drive start at 04:33. 1st and 10 at UND25 Weah, Otis rush over left end for 34 yards to the MSU41, 1ST DOWN UND (Braswell,Montra). 1st and 10 at MSU41 Weah, Otis rush up middle for 4 yards to the MSU37 (Stewart,Jaylen). 2nd and 6 at MSU37 Smith, Isaiah rush over right end for 4 yards to the MSU33 (Joe,Lemondre). 3rd and 2 at MSU33 Weah, Otis rush up middle for 1 yard to the MSU32 (Manuleleua,Ferr;McDonald,Kyriq). 4th and 1 at MSU32 Vaughn, Quincy rush up middle for 5 yards to the MSU27, 1ST DOWN UND (Williams,Jalen;Goree,Devin). 1st and 10 at MSU27 Weah, Otis rush up middle for 4 yards to the MSU23 (Johnson,Eric;Ellis,Kevin). 2nd and 6 at MSU23 Timeout Missouri St., clock 01:49. 2nd and 6 at MSU23 Weah, Otis rush over right end for loss of 2 yards to the MSU25, fumble forced by Young,Von, fumble by Weah, Otis recovered by MSU Johnson,Eric at MSU24. At even 35 seconds per play shouldn't the clock have been under a minute to go when Otis fumbled?
Their game winning drive took 8 plays and 1:24. What am I missing here?
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53 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:
The NCAA knows you have to be built to beat NDSU (meaning line of scrimmage) and few teams are, so they guaranteed NDSU to have to face such a team at least once.
The NCAA also does NOT want a final 8 composed of 4 MVFC teams, nor a final 4 composed of 3.
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7 minutes ago, nodak651 said:
Given that this was one of the best and deepest teams ever, which I agree, I just don't see why you don't think the roster can't continue to improve and get deeper along with UND's chances for a championship. UND's record has been up and down with Bubba, but I think the program has very steadily improved and I think it is still improving. Until I see evidence to the contrary I think firing Bubba would be too high of a risk/reward to justify firing, though I'd be fine with moving either of the coordinators to HC. If Bubba is fired I think both would be gone and I don't want them to leave though.
The roster can always improve, but overall, this was a damn good team. IMO we did NOT play an FCS team this fall which had a superior roster from top to bottom, and that includes the nemesis to our south. Were teams better at some positions, absolutely, but that will likely always be the case, as it was for NDSU this fall. Was there an FCS team this fall, where a UND win would be considered lucky or a fluke? My answer is no. I felt JMU was the only team we played in the spring with a real roster advantage over us, the NDSU game we just "!@#$ the bed", which ties right back to the coaches.
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3 minutes ago, nodak651 said:
Speaking of, it would be nice to be able to watch that second half! Have you seen it available to watch anywhere yet?
Nope. Just the MSU football highlights, which is not the greatest angle. Just gave the freaking game away.
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11 minutes ago, nodak651 said:
Sorry in advance for rambling.
Big name coach. However, given that he brought in, from what I remember, 20-30 transfers, is there any reason to believe that success will be sustained once he leaves after the 3-4 years that has been discussed? I think putting pressure on a coach to have immediate success can have a negative impact on the culture of the program, as fewer players are "bought in" four/five year players. With too many transfers, how likely are most of the guys likely to stick around once the coach moves on vs guys recruited as high schoolers who (imo) have more loyalty to the program?
If you hire a coach and have extremely high expectations for immediate improvement, or if the coach plans to use UND as a stepping stone,, is there a chance that forces the coach to make short term recruiting decisions to the detriment of the long term stability of the program?
For example perhaps he takes in upperclassmen transfers rather than freshman so he can have better roster depth in the short term, as he doesn't really care about what happens with the roster after a huge class graduates because he aims to be hired away to another school anyway, thereby leaving the cupboard bare for the next coach. There are many examples of coaches turning teams around after one season, but what is the difference between flash in the pan teams and teams who get turned around and then have long term success after the coach leaves right away? What are the odds of sustained success say Missouri State's coach moves on? Probably higher than if he didn't coach there at all, but then again UND is nowhere near as low as that program has been.
Long story short, I don't want UND to become a Jacksonville State type program. If you're aware of that program you'll know what I'm getting at.
I'm not a proponent of wholesale personnel changes and would rather build from the ground up. My larger point was how important coaching is in football. UND beat itself when playing Petrino team @MSU this fall. Pretty difficult to agrue with Petrino record over time. If Petrino was coaching this team we would be posting on the first round playoff thread instead of "could haves" and "should haves". Pretty hard to argue that.
I'm tired of waiting for Bubba and co to get "over the hump". After this fall, the success of the spring is looking more and more like a fluke and/or a mirage.
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25 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:
The completion is made. Otis runs it in with 0:09 on the clock. UND wins.
UND still stays home on Selection Sunday because UNI defeated SDSU, and SIU, and Sac State. Convince me otherwise.
You are likely correct about the committee. Feels like UND snatched "disappointment" this season with one of its best, deepest teams ever. Will take me quite awhile to get over the "no timeout" vs NDSU. That play changed the trajectory of the team and program we all love.
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9 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:
Sure, they will want that, but over the past decade of college football, in both FBS and FCS, several new coaching staffs have changed the culture and started winning after just a couple seasons.
Its not all coaching, but in football coaching is by far the most important element. A very recent MVFC example:
2015 Missouri State 1–10 0–8 10th 2016 Missouri State 4–7 2–6 T–8th 2017 Missouri State 3–8 2–6 T–8th 2018 Missouri State 4–7 2–6 9th 2019 Missouri State 1–10 1–7 T–9th 2020/Spring 2021 Missouri State 5–4 5–1 T–1st 2021: 8-3 and 6-2
Now ask yourself what changed after the 2019 season?
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6 minutes ago, nodak651 said:
@Midwestern Hawkare you able to find it within yourself to admit that you were wrong about Tommy for once, in that he didn't force the throw and it wasn't a bad throw?
Looks like richter was not expecting the ball, which makes no sense. Not a bad throw, just a really bad play. Are you happy now?
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13 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:
Sure, they will want that, but over the past decade of college football, in both FBS and FCS, several new coaching staffs have changed the culture and started winning after just a couple seasons.
I’ve said it before and it’s a very extreme example, but if nick Saban and his staff coached this team from Jan 1 of 2020 it would be at a minimum 10-1 at the moment, MVFC champs and a top seed In the tournament . Again an extreme example with maybe the best college HC who has ever coached, but in football coaching is incredibly important.
Look at MSU. Perennial doormat, Petrino shows up and boom! Playoffs every season. -
4 minutes ago, UND1983 said:
No your right, they were screaming at him to hurry up and get to the line... while he was standing there looking directly at them for the play as the team huddled.
WTF dude? You are out in another world with your hate of this staff. You can bitch about alot of things but that ain't of them.
I see players looking a bit confused after the sack, not all by some. We used 39 seconds on a first down sack and when we finally got down to running the next play, the receiver did not appear to be on the same page as his QB.
the NDSU, MSU and SDSU losses are all directly blamed on our game management/time management. For the record, I love Bubba and the staff, but if they take an objective look back at the season they blew some games.
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29 minutes ago, UND1983 said:
Now you are changing the argument. You said they were hurried and disorganized. The film shows differently. They purposely moved at that pace, which means you must know more than Danny and Bubba about how to handle end of game situations.
The same staff that choked against NDSU and failed to call TO when they didn’t take our bait on the punt, was calmly telling Tommy to take his time after the sack? Really?
Future of the UND Football Program
in Football
Posted
Do you not understand the definition of "game management"?
A good game manager would have made sure the fumble happened with almost an entire minute less on the clock, unless you think USD was practicing some kind of football "MAGIC" against UND.
Again, football is not rocket science. Generally when a team has the lead in a football game and the ball, they want every play to take as much time off the clock as is possible.
FOOTBALL 101