[LeftyZL]

PCM, on Oct 24 2005, 08:05 AM, said:

From The Harvard Crimson:

U. North Dakota Illustration Is Not Representative Of Fans

Quote

I am a senior at the University of North Dakota (UND), and for the past 16 years of my life I have attended UND athletic events at home and away. I understand that there are a lot of different opinions regarding this issue, but what troubles me the most is that you included an illustration of what the artist assumes to be the atmosphere at one of our university’s athletic contests.

I wish they would have printed more of my letter to the editor, since they decided to cut/paste my letter together to fit their paper. I even offered to take them on a tour of the University when their hockey team visits in December, but apparently they didn't take me up on my offer. But at least they printed something in rebuttal to the one-sided column in their newspaper.

[LetsGoSioux!]

LeftyZL, on Oct 24 2005, 06:07 PM, said:

PCM, on Oct 24 2005, 08:05 AM, said:

From The Harvard Crimson:

U. North Dakota Illustration Is Not Representative Of Fans

Quote

I am a senior at the University of North Dakota (UND), and for the past 16 years of my life I have attended UND athletic events at home and away. I understand that there are a lot of different opinions regarding this issue, but what troubles me the most is that you included an illustration of what the artist assumes to be the atmosphere at one of our university’s athletic contests.

I wish they would have printed more of my letter to the editor, since they decided to cut/paste my letter together to fit their paper. I even offered to take them on a tour of the University when their hockey team visits in December, but apparently they didn't take me up on my offer. But at least they printed something in rebuttal to the one-sided column in their newspaper.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice work. I can't believe this lady's description! None of that crap is true...I've been attending for 20 years and have never seen that stuff.

[dagies]

LeftyZL, on Oct 24 2005, 06:07 PM, said:

PCM, on Oct 24 2005, 08:05 AM, said:

From The Harvard Crimson:

U. North Dakota Illustration Is Not Representative Of Fans

Quote

I am a senior at the University of North Dakota (UND), and for the past 16 years of my life I have attended UND athletic events at home and away. I understand that there are a lot of different opinions regarding this issue, but what troubles me the most is that you included an illustration of what the artist assumes to be the atmosphere at one of our university’s athletic contests.

I wish they would have printed more of my letter to the editor, since they decided to cut/paste my letter together to fit their paper. I even offered to take them on a tour of the University when their hockey team visits in December, but apparently they didn't take me up on my offer. But at least they printed something in rebuttal to the one-sided column in their newspaper.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice job! I couldn't get mine printed in the Pioneer Press, so my hats off to those of you who get yours printed.

[PCM]

Now this is funny! I don't care who you are, it's funny!

From The News-Gazette (Champaign-Urbana, Ill.):

UI asks prof to pay for postage meter use

Quote

Stephen Kaufman, a UI professor of cell and molecular biology and vocal opponent of Chief Illiniwek, sent the letters – on UI letterhead – earlier this month to presidents, chancellors and athletic directors at more than 300 NCAA Division I schools. The letters were also signed by 90 people, many of them faculty members at the UI and the University of North Dakota.

The use of a UI postage meter and stationary violates university policy, according to an Oct. 14 letter to Kaufman from University Counsel Tom Bearrows. The UI's Business and Financial Policies and Procedures prohibits use of university assets for nonuniversity purposes.

Quote

Bearrows asked Kaufman for reimbursement for the postage in the amount of $270.

[HockeyMom]

If he wrote the letter and made the copies on the University's time, he should aslo be docked pay.

Along with the other people who's names are on it.

[Goon]

PCM, on Oct 25 2005, 04:27 PM, said:

Now this is funny! I don't care who you are, it's funny! 

From The News-Gazette (Champaign-Urbana, Ill.):

UI asks prof to pay for postage meter use

Quote

Stephen Kaufman, a UI professor of cell and molecular biology and vocal opponent of Chief Illiniwek, sent the letters – on UI letterhead – earlier this month to presidents, chancellors and athletic directors at more than 300 NCAA Division I schools. The letters were also signed by 90 people, many of them faculty members at the UI and the University of North Dakota.

The use of a UI postage meter and stationary violates university policy, according to an Oct. 14 letter to Kaufman from University Counsel Tom Bearrows. The UI's Business and Financial Policies and Procedures prohibits use of university assets for nonuniversity purposes.

Quote

Bearrows asked Kaufman for reimbursement for the postage in the amount of $270.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This man should be fired from his job, what he did constitutes theft.

[dagies]

I wonder if the idea that he used UI stationary was meant to infer that he was providing an official position of the UI, or writing the letter with the backing of the UI? That would be worse than a couple of hundred bucks of postage/paper.

[Goon]

dagies, on Oct 25 2005, 06:24 PM, said:

I wonder if the idea that he used UI stationary was meant to infer that he was providing an official position of the UI, or writing the letter with the backing of the UI?  That would be worse than a couple of hundred bucks of postage/paper.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The way I see it is that he works for a government agency sending his private mail using tax supported dollars which is a crime. Thats like using a government money/services to run for a politial office. Basically it is a theft of services. I know working for the government myself he would/could be fired quickly and could be prosecuted also for this. I hope his employer goes for his head on this one. I know if I was his supervisor he could be gone. If this had happened at UND I would be writing the chancellor of ND.

[Ranger]

Goon, on Oct 25 2005, 06:44 PM, said:

dagies, on Oct 25 2005, 06:24 PM, said:

I wonder if the idea that he used UI stationary was meant to infer that he was providing an official position of the UI, or writing the letter with the backing of the UI?  That would be worse than a couple of hundred bucks of postage/paper.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The way I see it is that he works for a government agency sending his private mail using tax supported dollars which is a crime. Thats like using a government money/services to run for a politial office. Basically it is a theft of services. I know working for the government myself he would/could be fired quickly and could be prosecuted also for this. I hope his employer goes for his head on this one. I know if I was his supervisor he could be gone. If this had happened at UND I would be writing the chancellor of ND.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a career government employee, I have thought about this issue lately. Are these professors, as employees of the university and state, using their own time or employer/taxpayer time to further their personal agendas? If the latter, then it’s at least a violation of the employer-employee contract. Universities need to crack down on this, much like it has been done at the federal government level. The Hatch Act controls what I can do and say in regards to politics, federal laws and agency regulations control what I can and can not do at work, as well as what I can or can not use office supplies and infrastructure for.

[Ranger]

also, i don't know what's more pathetic: the idiot using official letterhead for personal gain, or believing that he didn't do anything wrong. these people would never make it on the outside. kick his rear-end out to the street UI!

now, have any of the UND admin/staff done the same?

[Goon]

Ranger, on Oct 25 2005, 07:28 PM, said:

also, i don't know what's more pathetic:  the idiot using official letterhead for personal gain, or believing that he didn't do anything wrong.  these people would never make it on the outside.  kick his rear-end out to the street UI! 

now, have any of the UND admin/staff done the same?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think under the FOIA I believe we could find that information out.

[Goon]

Ranger, on Oct 25 2005, 07:20 PM, said:

Goon, on Oct 25 2005, 06:44 PM, said:

dagies, on Oct 25 2005, 06:24 PM, said:

I wonder if the idea that he used UI stationary was meant to infer that he was providing an official position of the UI, or writing the letter with the backing of the UI?  That would be worse than a couple of hundred bucks of postage/paper.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The way I see it is that he works for a government agency sending his private mail using tax supported dollars which is a crime. Thats like using a government money/services to run for a politial office. Basically it is a theft of services. I know working for the government myself he would/could be fired quickly and could be prosecuted also for this. I hope his employer goes for his head on this one. I know if I was his supervisor he could be gone. If this had happened at UND I would be writing the chancellor of ND.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a career government employee, I have thought about this issue lately. Are these professors, as employees of the university and state, using their own time or employer/taxpayer time to further their personal agendas? If the latter, then it’s at least a violation of the employer-employee contract. Universities need to crack down on this, much like it has been done at the federal government level. The Hatch Act controls what I can do and say in regards to politics, federal laws and agency regulations control what I can and can not do at work, as well as what I can or can not use office supplies and infrastructure for.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only think about it this way. It is so hard to get a tenured professor fired, they almost have to kill or rape a student or support a terrorist org to get fired (the professor in fla that Bill Oreilly got fired). Look at Ward in Colorado, what he did would get any normal person fired from his job. The ALCU would also probably support these people in a lawsuit against the state or University.

[redwing77]

Goon, on Oct 25 2005, 07:54 PM, said:

Ranger, on Oct 25 2005, 07:20 PM, said:

Goon, on Oct 25 2005, 06:44 PM, said:

dagies, on Oct 25 2005, 06:24 PM, said:

I wonder if the idea that he used UI stationary was meant to infer that he was providing an official position of the UI, or writing the letter with the backing of the UI?  That would be worse than a couple of hundred bucks of postage/paper.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The way I see it is that he works for a government agency sending his private mail using tax supported dollars which is a crime. Thats like using a government money/services to run for a politial office. Basically it is a theft of services. I know working for the government myself he would/could be fired quickly and could be prosecuted also for this. I hope his employer goes for his head on this one. I know if I was his supervisor he could be gone. If this had happened at UND I would be writing the chancellor of ND.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a career government employee, I have thought about this issue lately. Are these professors, as employees of the university and state, using their own time or employer/taxpayer time to further their personal agendas? If the latter, then it’s at least a violation of the employer-employee contract. Universities need to crack down on this, much like it has been done at the federal government level. The Hatch Act controls what I can do and say in regards to politics, federal laws and agency regulations control what I can and can not do at work, as well as what I can or can not use office supplies and infrastructure for.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only think about it this way. It is so hard to get a tenured professor fired, they almost have to kill or rape a student or support a terrorist org to get fired (the professor in fla that Bill Oreilly got fired). Look at Ward in Colorado, what he did would get any normal person fired from his job. The ALCU would also probably support these people in a lawsuit against the state or University.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's right. It is VERY hard to fire a tenured professor. While my brother attended Northwestern University, he learned of why their chemistry or biology department was the way it was (I can't remember if he said it was all combined or seperated into different facets of the science). They had a tenured professor who actually moved to Florida and started working part time for a Florida college WITHOUT resigning from the Northwestern position. When it was discovered, they couldn't fire him because he had tenure. So they had to /close the entire department/ and redesignate the departments, transfer the professors they wanted to keep out of the defunct department, then retransfer them back in once the new department was formed. And they just didn't rehire that professor. After all, he was a member of a now defunct college department. Very convoluted and confusing, I know, but it is seriously that messed up.

[Ranger]

redwing77, on Oct 25 2005, 10:03 PM, said:

Goon, on Oct 25 2005, 07:54 PM, said:

Ranger, on Oct 25 2005, 07:20 PM, said:

Goon, on Oct 25 2005, 06:44 PM, said:

dagies, on Oct 25 2005, 06:24 PM, said:

I wonder if the idea that he used UI stationary was meant to infer that he was providing an official position of the UI, or writing the letter with the backing of the UI?  That would be worse than a couple of hundred bucks of postage/paper.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The way I see it is that he works for a government agency sending his private mail using tax supported dollars which is a crime. Thats like using a government money/services to run for a politial office. Basically it is a theft of services. I know working for the government myself he would/could be fired quickly and could be prosecuted also for this. I hope his employer goes for his head on this one. I know if I was his supervisor he could be gone. If this had happened at UND I would be writing the chancellor of ND.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a career government employee, I have thought about this issue lately. Are these professors, as employees of the university and state, using their own time or employer/taxpayer time to further their personal agendas? If the latter, then it’s at least a violation of the employer-employee contract. Universities need to crack down on this, much like it has been done at the federal government level. The Hatch Act controls what I can do and say in regards to politics, federal laws and agency regulations control what I can and can not do at work, as well as what I can or can not use office supplies and infrastructure for.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only think about it this way. It is so hard to get a tenured professor fired, they almost have to kill or rape a student or support a terrorist org to get fired (the professor in fla that Bill Oreilly got fired). Look at Ward in Colorado, what he did would get any normal person fired from his job. The ALCU would also probably support these people in a lawsuit against the state or University.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's right. It is VERY hard to fire a tenured professor. While my brother attended Northwestern University, he learned of why their chemistry or biology department was the way it was (I can't remember if he said it was all combined or seperated into different facets of the science). They had a tenured professor who actually moved to Florida and started working part time for a Florida college WITHOUT resigning from the Northwestern position. When it was discovered, they couldn't fire him because he had tenure. So they had to /close the entire department/ and redesignate the departments, transfer the professors they wanted to keep out of the defunct department, then retransfer them back in once the new department was formed. And they just didn't rehire that professor. After all, he was a member of a now defunct college department. Very convoluted and confusing, I know, but it is seriously that messed up.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

understand the tenure issue... how about a reassignment then ... making sure the Chief's gear is well-maintained before and after public events.

[PCM]

From The Western Courier (Western Illinois University):

NCAA's rulings on college teams' mascots and nicknames unfair

Quote

These rulings on mascots will not affect either university's performance athletically, but it will have a prolonged impact on the reputation of both schools. Both Bradley and Illinois will be looked at as racist schools, while schools such as Florida State are freed from the scrutiny of the media come postseason time.

[PCM]

From Central Michigan Life:

Psychologists: Ban American Indian mascots

Quote

“The use of the Chippewa name has had sufficient support from the Saginaw Chippewa Tribe,” said Gary Dunbar, psychology professor. “I think if the Saginaw Chippewa Indian tribe considers CMU’s use of the Chippewa name as a source of pride, then we should keep it.”

Quote

“I think CMU has made concerted efforts to avoid the problems that other schools have faced when using Native American mascots,” Dunbar said. “(But) I suspect that if outside pressure to change continue(s) to grow, and if it is not made clear that the Saginaw Chippewa tribe wants CMU to continue to use the Chippewa name, then I think it will eventually be changed.”

Easier said than done.

[PCM]

From The Mercury News:

In Iowa, visitors see red over pink

Quote

Just what does pink symbolize, anyway?

At the University of Iowa, it seems, absurdity.

A visiting law professor has found the visitors' all-pink locker room at Kinnick Stadium unsightly. And not for the challenge it would present the Trading Spaces crew.

Instead, Erin Buzuvis interprets the color scheme as demeaning - ``a subtle way of painting the words `sissy' or `girlie man,' '' according to her web blog.

Hate speech, in other words.

Quote

Fortunately, the NCAA's insipid ``hostile and abusive'' ban hasn't extended to colors. Yet.

I wish some of these reporters would mention that the NCAA considers Iowa a "model" insititution because of it's policy against playing teams with American Indian nicknames.

[swiss_miss]

I think it is laudable that someone is taking a closer look at racism and discrimination in U.S. culture. All too often this becomes an issue of black and white, leaving out other minority groups (such as Native Americans). I do not think that a collective ban on Native American logos by the NCAA is a step towards ending racism in the United States. The real problem is socioeconomic boundaries and social problems such as poverty, alcoholism, and domestic abuse on reservations.

It is unfortunate, but ‘white privilege’ does exist in our society. Institutions such as UND are working to alleviate the true problem by providing Native American youth with scholarships for higher education and by raising cultural awareness. Education and economic opportunity are real solutions to improving life on the reservation, not changing ‘nicknames.’

[Flatland]

swiss_miss, on Oct 27 2005, 03:21 AM, said:

I think it is laudable that someone is taking a closer look at racism and discrimination in U.S. culture. All too often this becomes an issue of black and white, leaving out other minority groups (such as Native Americans). I do not think that a collective ban on Native American logos by the NCAA is a step towards ending racism in the United States. The real problem is socioeconomic boundaries and social problems such as poverty, alcoholism, and domestic abuse on reservations.

It is unfortunate, but ‘white privilege’ does exist in our society. Institutions such as UND are working to alleviate the true problem by providing Native American youth with scholarships for higher education and by raising cultural awareness. Education and economic opportunity are real solutions to improving life on the reservation, not changing ‘nicknames.’

I don't think anyone would argue that fighting racism is something that doesn't need to be done regardless of gender, race, etc. I think there has been more than enough evidence on all these threads that indicate racism exists towards virtually every ethnic group (of which I include white American males.) I personally disagree with your view about 'white priviledge'. Saying that white Americans are priviledged is like saying Americans of another ethnic group don't have the same opportunities as white Americans. This has been shown over and over in this board not to be true and in many cases is the opposite. White Americans are only priviledged because of what they have built for themselves over the past generations. Some of those actions were wrong, no doubt about it, but saying they compare to what happens today is ignorant. (By the way, I don't want to start a flame war because I admit that there are instances where white people disrespect those of other races, but nowadays I believe that there is a proportionally equal amount of disrespect in both directions. The real challenge is reducing that.)

What almost everyone on this board has been saying is that it is simply not up to the NCAA to make this decision, even if you believe the decision was the right one. This is just like a private group telling the public what to do, which is currently done in Washington, but it's called lobbying. If the NCAA wants to change the names, perhaps they should start by going to the dept of education where the people who control the money for public universities like UND work. If they do that, at least it may be possible to get a well thought out legislative decision on all mascots and none of this picking and choosing which mascots are ok. Of course, appeals would go directly to the court system, but you know the decision will be much more thought out than what the NCAA's decision.

[redwing77]

First off, as I have stated before, racism is a term that is open to interpretation. That's where it is so disasterous. It doesn't matter what you, I, or any institution says or does, someone could dig deep enough or twist it enough to make it look racist. EVERYTHING is racist. White snow is neat. Black snow is dirty and ugly. Is that racist? If you look at the facts, no. No one likes eating dirty snow or playing in it. Would someone find it racist anyhow? You bet. Racism as a term is no longer what it was designed to mean. It is now something used by minorities every time that minority doesn't get its way. It's like being female and claiming a guy sexually harrassed you just because she didn't like a business decision he made.

White privilege doesn't exist. Period. If it did, then the percentage of whites on welfare and medicaid would be 0. We'd all drive brand new cars, make 100 percent of the money in the US economy, and, as a rule, become ignorant of everyone else. Rosa Parks would have been thrown off the bus. No one would have made any care of Martin Luther King Jr. The Civil Rights movement would have just been one big riot put down by our lackies and historically moved on. Did that happen? Nope. Rosa Parks changed history. MLK Jr. openned a society's eyes. Civil Rights was not a riot, but a revolution. Sure, at one time white privilege may have existed, but certainly not since the early 1900s.

Changing a nickname isn't opening a society's eyes. It does nothing for the Native American except whatever gratification they can reach for a minority of a minority winning a meaningless battle over a majority. What will they get out of this? Well, GK et al claimed they'd get their dignity back... How? They complain about the conditions on the reservation, alcoholism, drug use, the failure of education, and unemployment to name a few... how is the nickname going to change that? This isn't a world of entitlement. It is a world based on what you can do for yourself. Peers who've earned their place will always be looked upon with respect and listened to. People who expect to garner the same respect for whatever reason save earning it only become whiners and thorns in the side of society. Some Native Americans have earned the right to be respected and honored. Others feel that they deserve it because of some atrocity in the past. THese entitlists are pretenders in the area of respect.