MplsBison Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 So Denver is staying DI in order to have lacrosse compete in the DI national championship? Hard to believe that. I still think they'd be better off in DIII with Colorado College. CC even still has a football team. As far as UND in the Gateway. NDSU can only control the way NDSU votes. But rest assured that when the time comes NDSU will vote for UND to be in the Gateway. There's no other possible way it can go down. Having both NDSU and UND in the Gateway gives the most possible opportunities to ND players to play at the highest level of FCS. And it gives the people of ND the most possible opportunities to watch the highest level of FCS and spend money in the state of North Dakota to do so. It also maximizes possible exposure for the state of North Dakota. There's no possible way you can slice it that having both NDSU and UND in the Gateway wouldn't be best for the state of North Dakota. And to that end, there's no possible way NDSU will vote against UND joining. No guarantee on what the rest of the membership votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach daddy Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 So Denver is staying DI in order to have lacrosse compete in the DI national championship? Hard to believe that. I still think they'd be better off in DIII with Colorado College. CC even still has a football team. As far as UND in the Gateway. NDSU can only control the way NDSU votes. But rest assured that when the time comes NDSU will vote for UND to be in the Gateway. There's no other possible way it can go down. Having both NDSU and UND in the Gateway gives the most possible opportunities to ND players to play at the highest level of FCS. And it gives the people of ND the most possible opportunities to watch the highest level of FCS and spend money in the state of North Dakota to do so. It also maximizes possible exposure for the state of North Dakota. There's no possible way you can slice it that having both NDSU and UND in the Gateway wouldn't be best for the state of North Dakota. And to that end, there's no possible way NDSU will vote against UND joining. No guarantee on what the rest of the membership votes. Totally agree with everything said here except the sentence in red. UND signed 4 instate kids and SU signed 2. I know there will some walk-ons put lets not pretend that the high school football players of North Dakota will benefit from this move. In state recruiting is a low priority for both universities, in all major sports, and that trend will only continue. In state players are being recruited hard by U of Mary right now and I believe you'll see that trend continue also. Which is OK by me. Bismarck is a great town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Even if both schools don't sign many ND high school players, having both schools at the highest level of FCS will still allow the most possible ND high school players the opportunity to play at the highest level of FCS. IE, 6 > 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach daddy Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 If you think this move is a great move when it benefits 6 football players, you've become impossible to talk to. At SU this winter, more kids from the state of Michigan benefitted from scholarship money in football than did kids from North Dakota. I understand it is about winning and being the best you can be, just don't lie to me, and to yourself, when you say this move is a "benefit" to football players from North Dakota. Fewer and fewer football players from the state playing at the state universities. Spin that for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Dig around USCHO.com and you'll find an old article about the DIIIs of today being grandfathered into an allowance to give DI hockey scholarships. (Your memory is pretty close Hammersmith.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Like star2city says, they'll accept the invite when UND does. Why would Bison fans want DU to not stay DI? Because the Denver market is very valuable for ratings, recruits, and scholarships, and the Big Sky knows it. PS - Denver at UND hockey was on FSN-Rocky Mountain last night. TV market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Totally agree with everything said here except the sentence in red. UND signed 4 instate kids and SU signed 2. I know there will some walk-ons put lets not pretend that the high school football players of North Dakota will benefit from this move. In state recruiting is a low priority for both universities, in all major sports, and that trend will only continue. In state players are being recruited hard by U of Mary right now and I believe you'll see that trend continue also. Which is OK by me. Bismarck is a great town. As an aside, will Bismarck-Mandan ever really support Mary athletics, or will it always be similar to what Augie is to Sioux Falls, i.e. not overly popular due in large part to its private school status? Attendance for football and basketball is fairly underwhelming considering the population (4100/game for football, 1300/game bball). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 At SU this winter, more kids from the state of Michigan benefitted from scholarship money in football than did kids from North Dakota. I understand it is about winning and being the best you can be, just don't lie to me, and to yourself, when you say this move is a "benefit" to football players from North Dakota. The only claim I've made is that the total number of ND high school players competiting at the highest level of FCS would be greater with both NDSU and UND in the Gateway rather than only NDSU in the Gateway. As a matter of fact, 6 players, the number of ND high school players signed by NDSU and UND, is greater than 2 players, the number of ND high school players signed by only NDSU. If you can't comprehend that statement of fact, then I'm not sure what else I can say to make you understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Dig around USCHO.com and you'll find an old article about the DIIIs of today being grandfathered into an allowance to give DI hockey scholarships. (Your memory is pretty close Hammersmith.) If Denver could continue offering the full amount of hockey scholarships while having a DIII classification, then I see no reason why having a DI classification benefits them. They'd continue having WCHA hockey like they always have had and they'd continue being allowed to participate in the singular NCAA skiing championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 If Denver could continue offering the full amount of hockey scholarships while having a DIII classification, then I see no reason why having a DI classification benefits them. But DU could not, as the exemption only applies to teams that were DIIIs when it was created. My better question: Why so worried about DU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammersmith Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 With my Carnac the Magnificent hat on, I see this discussion going nowhere, so how about a hijack? Recently(today in the Herald/a few days ago in the Forum), there was an article about the recent success of the NDSU Team Makers. In the last four years, TM has doubled fundaising from $810,000 to $1.65 million and has a stated goal of $1.9 million for next year and $3+ million in the long term. I've been wondering for a while now how the Fighting Sioux Club has been doing. I know that the FSC went through its own rebirth quite a few years ago(thanks to Rob Bollinger?) and has been doing very well since, but I don't recall hearing any hard numbers for the last year or two. For some reason, I was thinking they were pulling in around $2.1 million a year, but that was like three or four years ago. Does anyone know what the current figures are or where to find them? What does this have to do with I-A football? Uhhh... It takes money? Or maybe it's because I see only headaches involved for anyone not named MplsBison if this stupid DU discussion continues. So, anyone want to jump ship with me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DI IN FARGO Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Tell that to the people funding the UP Center in Fargo. If hockey doesn't make money there is going to be some broke #$%^$##%% in about 5 years. I should have prefaced that comment with Hockey at NDSU. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DI IN FARGO Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 With my Carnac the Magnificent hat on, I see this discussion going nowhere, so how about a hijack? Recently(today in the Herald/a few days ago in the Forum), there was an article about the recent success of the NDSU Team Makers. In the last four years, TM has doubled fundaising from $810,000 to $1.65 million and has a stated goal of $1.9 million for next year and $3+ million in the long term. I've been wondering for a while now how the Fighting Sioux Club has been doing. I know that the FSC went through its own rebirth quite a few years ago(thanks to Rob Bollinger?) and has been doing very well since, but I don't recall hearing any hard numbers for the last year or two. For some reason, I was thinking they were pulling in around $2.1 million a year, but that was like three or four years ago. Does anyone know what the current figures are or where to find them? What does this have to do with I-A football? Uhhh... It takes money? Or maybe it's because I see only headaches involved for anyone not named MplsBison if this stupid DU discussion continues. So, anyone want to jump ship with me? I'll buy a ticket for that ship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 But DU could not, as the exemption only applies to teams that were DIIIs when it was created. But theres no reason that a DI hockey school expressing interest in moving the rest of the AD to DIII couldn't qualify for the exemption. There's very few DI hockey schools that could benefit from such a move like Denver could. It's not like we'd be looking at a Dayton situation for hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverman Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 UNH,Maine and DU IMHO, are using their D1 status to capture some of the monies that the NCAA shells out during the Frozen Four. There was an article about two years ago that stated that a team playing must have all sports D1 to gain any money for making it to the Frozen Four. This isn't the main reason IMHO,but it seems like a pretty good one. So why would DU want to drop any sport down a level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I have a hard time believing that what little money gets spread around from a tournament like the frozen four would more than offset the money it takes to keep DU's AD DI rather than DIII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotadan Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 If you had come on here and were arguing that Northern Colorado should be DIII you'd have alot more people agreeing with you. But you have yet to even give a logical reason why DU shouldn't be DI. DU fits the DI mold more than most other schools that are pretending to be DI. So what point are you trying to get at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 The only reason to ever move to DI is for football or basketball. Every single other sport can simply be played up, if your team is really that good, or there only exists a single division that you play in anyway. Denver staying DI so their basketball teams can be DI is a joke and is an waste of money. They'll never do anything in basketball. Everyone knows that DU is about hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 DU is about hockey, skiing, and lacrosse (they dropped 100 years of baseball for it and have made a significant investment in it). You can only play up in one DI sport if there is a DII or DIII championship in the sport. Skiing and its combined championship would be fine, but playing up in DI hockey would preclude DI lacrosse as there is a DIII lax tournament. Denver's going nowhere toward DIII, no matter your beliefs or "expertise" in such matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 So what point are you trying to get at? I think he's afraid the star2city notion of DU and UND to the Big Sky could happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 It's not like we'd be looking at a Dayton situation for hockey. (I know I'm going to regret this ....) So what is Dayton doing that you could "improve"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach daddy Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 (I know I'm going to regret this ....) So what is Dayton doing that you could "improve"? I can't believe you asked that question. Everyone just left it alone....................but no................you had to ask it........................I thought you, over anyone, would know better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I can't believe you asked that question. Everyone just left it alone....................but no................you had to ask it........................I thought you, over anyone, would know better. I just want to see how deep this "experise" runs. Consider it the eggs for the omelet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 You can only play up in one DI sport if there is a DII or DIII championship in the sport. Skiing and its combined championship would be fine, but playing up in DI hockey would preclude DI lacrosse as there is a DIII lax tournament. Correct. Therefore, Denver is spending all the money required to be DI just so that their lacrosse team can be DI rather than DIII. Which is a complete waste of money considering they'll never be a national contender in DI lacrosse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 So what is Dayton doing that you could "improve"? Dayton used to play down in football at the DIII level despite having a DI basketball team. A bunch of DIII schools got together and decided that Dayton shouldn't be allowed to play football at the DIII level because they were able to take revenue that their DI basketball program pulled in and then spend it on football, giving them an unfair advantage. The NCAA agreed and thus banned the practice of playing down in football. IE, if you have DI basketball you must have DI football and vice versa. And thus the Pioneer football league was formed for newly DI non scholarship football teams. I meant to imply that Denver having a DI hockey team but a DIII athletic department would not result in this phenomenon as it current does not happen at Colorado College. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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