No, not I-AA, but FCS

[jimdahl]

I was leaving my hotel room earlier this week and saw plastered on the front page of a national newspaper a story about how I-AA App. State was getting a taste of "big time" football this Fall. It must have mentioned I-AA a dozen times.

I actually chuckled to myself, feeling sorry for the poor newspaper that was about to be deluged by letters from indignant Bison fans who:

1) Staunchly chide anyone who dares still use the terminology I-AA (despite not a single FCS game having yet being played)

2) Blanch at any suggestions that I-AA ball is not "big time"

It's not clear to me why Bison fans have taken on the role of online champions of the ridiculous FCS moniker, but it sure is amusing. I guess it's not that different from two years ago when we were attacked by the punctuation police who jumped all over any use of "IAA" or "1AA" instead of whatever it was they preferred.

[Diggler]

Feel free to demonstrate your ignorance. You have my support.

Thanks! It means alot to me to have the support of someone who cares so passionately about something that really doesn't even matter. Whether you call it FCS, DI-AA, Crap football or Uruguayan Pants Ball, it's still the same thing.

[Herd]

To say it's all just D1 is to make the misleading interpretation that the likes of Appalachain State and Northern Iowa are equal to the likes of USC and Notre Dame, which is why I say it takes an inferiority complex to get upset at the refusal to lump all of D1 into one broad category. If you're secure with where you're at you wouldn't have to try so hard to create the illusion that you're competing at the highest level of college football when the truth is that you're actually competing at the 2nd highest level of college football. I prefer to keep them separated by referring to them as D1 and I-AA. My personal preference, get over it. I think that's the 12th time that I communicated this to you personally.

App St. and UNI play for the same championship in all DI sports as USC and ND, with the exception of football where they play in the FCS vs. FBS subdivisions, both in DI. App St. and UNI are DI schools, no more no less, than USC and ND. Number of students, t-shirts sold, number of people at the game means nothing. If you play for the same championship, you are on the same level.

You are right about 1 thing, both App St. and UNI would probably have beaten up on ND on the basketball court last year. Maybe they aren't on the same level, and maybe ND with its small student population should think about going DII? You make a good point on that!

[Herd]

To say it's all just D1 is to make the misleading interpretation that the likes of Appalachain State and Northern Iowa are equal to the likes of USC and Notre Dame, which is why I say it takes an inferiority complex to get upset at the refusal to lump all of D1 into one broad category. If you're secure with where you're at you wouldn't have to try so hard to create the illusion that you're competing at the highest level of college football when the truth is that you're actually competing at the 2nd highest level of college football. I prefer to keep them separated by referring to them as D1 and I-AA. My personal preference, get over it. I think that's the 12th time that I communicated this to you personally.

Indignant bison fan (me) correcting ignorant sioux fan (you). You actually posted a correct reference.

[Hammersmith]

I was leaving my hotel room earlier this week and saw plastered on the front page of a national newspaper a story about how I-AA App. State was getting a taste of "big time" football this Fall. It must have mentioned I-AA a dozen times.

I actually chuckled to myself, feeling sorry for the poor newspaper that was about to be deluged by letters from indignant Bison fans who:

1) Staunchly chide anyone who dares still use the terminology I-AA (despite not a single FCS game having yet being played)

2) Blanch at any suggestions that I-AA ball is not "big time"

It's not clear to me why Bison fans have taken on the role of online champions of the ridiculous FCS moniker, but it sure is amusing. I guess it's not that different from two years ago when we were attacked by the punctuation police who jumped all over any use of "IAA" or "1AA" instead of whatever it was they preferred.

Yeah, I agree that a couple of Bison fans have gone overboard here trying to get everyone to use the FCS label. I know I brought it up last year just after it took effect, but that was more of a "just in case you didn't know yet" situation. I personally think it shows a little disrespect to the FCS schools to call them I-AA, but not enough for me to lose sleep over. I also realize that there are other factors involved in this particular case. I doubt many of you think too kindly of the NCAA at the moment, and that might be some part of the problem. I know some of the rabidness shown by some Bison fans on this issue has probably been influenced by AGS. The people that run that board(Ralph in particular) are very critical of nomenclature mistakes in the media and among sports fans. I think some of that has rubbed off on the Bison fans who have only recently been exposed to DI athletics.

Since I never want to post in this thread again(it's made my head hurt), I'll give my $0.02 worth and then scurry away. It seems most people in this thread(both sides) think the name change was because of football. It wasn't. It was about everything BUT football. It also wasn't about BCS vs. I-AA. The core issue was that lower level I-A programs were using the I-A/I-AA labels in a deliberately incorrect way when competing for non-football recruits against I-AA schools. A MAC or Sunbelt basketball or volleyball or soccer coach would come into a recruit's home and say, "Yeah, we're a I-A school just like USC, Duke, Florida or Notre Dame. That Mid-Con/Big Sky/Horizon school that's also talking to you is a I-AA school. They don't play the same types of teams or compete for the same championship that we do." The problem is, that statement was false. But a recruit would look up the Big Sky(etc) school and see that they were, indeed, listed as a I-AA program. Many of them would then believe the rest of the statement. Yes, you would think that the recruits should be smarter than that, but... Now, with 'football' in the title of the subdivision, there's a hope that unscrupulous recruiters will have a harder time misleading their recruits and that lazy reporters won't make the same mistake of thinking I-A(FBS) and I-AA(FCS) are two seperate divisions. (They are two seperate subdivisions - and, yes, there is a difference.) The schools that should've been really pissed about the old names were schools like Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Drake and Missouri State. Those schools have better basketball teams than 60% of I-A schools(90% in the case of SIU), yet reporters and I-A coaches were claiming that, because they played I-AA football, they were in another division. Something there just wasn't right. I agree that the new names are unwieldy and may change again in the near future, but I don't have a better name and, if any of you do, I'd love to hear them.

So in closing,

Sioux fans: Please try to seperate your feelings about the NCAA from this issue. The FBS/FCS name change came from the university presidents, the "hostile and abusive" mandate came from the executive board. Also, you're about to enter someone else's home, it might be nice to treat them as you would wish to be treated. Do you like it when Bison fans call you Flickertails or Firetrucks? Our schools have a history that makes things like that common and expected. Is that the same mentality you want to have toward FCS?

Bison fans: Chill out. Do you actually think you're ever going to change DaveK's mind about anything? Assuming the FCS label lasts for more than a few years, the vast majority of Sioux fans will start to use the new labels once they join DI. The more you try to beat them over the head with it, the further you'll drive in their desire to use I-A/I-AA just to spite us. (Of course, if you want to make them look like backwards fools when they join FCS, that might be the way.(I'm kidding, Sioux fans.)). Anyway, just back off the issue and let this thread go to the place where the NDUS Engineering thread went, and let us please see neither of them ever again. Please?

[Herd]

I'm talking about football. UNI and App. State do not play for the same championship that USC and Notre Dame play for. That's why they aren't on the same level, and that's why I refer to the two different levels of play as D1 and I-AA. If I was talking about basketball I would refer to all of them as D1, but I don't talk about basketball so it never comes up in conversation.

I'm sorry, I should have your favorite DI sports preferences in mind when I interpret your erroneous use of the DI nomenclature. My bad.

[NDSUFREAK10]

I was leaving my hotel room earlier this week and saw plastered on the front page of a national newspaper a story about how I-AA App. State was getting a taste of "big time" football this Fall. It must have mentioned I-AA a dozen times.

I actually chuckled to myself, feeling sorry for the poor newspaper that was about to be deluged by letters from indignant Bison fans who:

1) Staunchly chide anyone who dares still use the terminology I-AA (despite not a single FCS game having yet being played)

2) Blanch at any suggestions that I-AA ball is not "big time"

It's not clear to me why Bison fans have taken on the role of online champions of the ridiculous FCS moniker, but it sure is amusing. I guess it's not that different from two years ago when we were attacked by the punctuation police who jumped all over any use of "IAA" or "1AA" instead of whatever it was they preferred.

Go to AGS and then see that not only BISON fans encourage the use of FCS

[jimdahl]

Go to AGS and then see that not only BISON fans encourage the use of FCS

No thanks -- I don't particularly care how many moniker police there are on some other site, my point was that it's only Bison fans who come here to police acronym and moniker spellings.

There's no question that FCS is the current term and I-AA is now obsolete. However, I-AA is still in wide use and more widely understood than FCS; I'm sure we'll all fall into full compliance as these guys do. Of course, I still think (hope?) others might come to their senses and get rid of the "FCS" name before UND is playoff eligible.