06-07 Mr. Hockey

[Ray77]

IM jumpin on the bas siouxmama waggon too. what do u mean where paul muprhy is? he had a good career prolly better then u and i. also askew had a better career so dont go around askin where poepel are at.

Uh oh..."proudsioux" is already into the Keystone at 10:00 am on a Friday!

[knownothing]

Knownothing, your name is very appropriate. I already addressed the issue of potential, and went in depth into why someone playing in the USHL is obviously overly qualified to win Mr. Hockey, and is almost definitly being snubbed if he does not win the award. You however, ignored those points and played something like a broken record. Anyone who is unbiased as to who wins Mr. Hockey would agree that Danny Wurden was the best player on the ice in the state of North Dakota. I'm not one to base the quality of someones play on points but Zach Miller put up numbers as good as Herbel in the East. Obviously he had better players with him, but the competition was much harder. If you consider all the above facts it's easy to come to the conclusion the Miller and Wurden split votes, and the West (who wanted to see there own succeed, with disregard to who the best player is) all voted for Herbel. It's a harsh reality.

Now, I'm not going to argue this anymore because your skull is obviously to thick to take in any logical information. In the next few months to a year you will be able to clearly see who the better hockey player is. And when the time comes I don't want to hear "he just reached his potential in those fews months". Please.

[knownothing]

You are the one that is obviously very biased and we are all entitled to our own opinions. But you know what? It doesn't matter...Eric Herbal was chosen as MR. Hockey. Like I said...get over it!

[UNDhockey22]

You are the one that is obviously very biased and we are all entitled to our own opinions. But you know what? It doesn't matter...Eric Herbal was chosen as MR. Hockey. Like I said...get over it!

Biased? I am not friends with Wurden nor Herbel. I do not like South, and I think Bottineau has a terrible team. You can have your opinion that Herbel deserved the award, but your opinion is still wrong.

Get over it? I simply replied to a statement made on this message board, and then replied again when someone questioned what I know to be a fact. I am not losing any sleep over this, but it's sad when someone who is clearly the best player in the state is not acknowledged like he should be.

End lesson.

[UNDhockey22]

You are the one that is obviously very biased and we are all entitled to our own opinions. But you know what? It doesn't matter...Eric Herbal was chosen as MR. Hockey. Like I said...get over it!

You are unable to come up with an intelligent reply to any of my posts, which solidifies what I already believed. You are either very young, or have not been around the sport very long.

[redwing77]

You are the one that is obviously very biased and we are all entitled to our own opinions. But you know what? It doesn't matter...Eric Herbal was chosen as MR. Hockey. Like I said...get over it!

I don't know. I kindof get knownothing's point. You know, I could argue that some arbitrary guy on GPR deserved it... let's say, the guy who wears #7. I could come up with the best case imaginable and I might even convince the lot of you (most if not all of you know more about high school hockey than I, I admit) that I'm right and, you know what? It won't mean a damn thing.

Why? Because message board posters and hockey fans don't choose Mr. Hockey. The Coaches did. So, the coaches chose Herbal whether you liked him or not.

From reading this board, Herbal has two things going against him in the eyes of the typical poster here:

1. He plays for a Western team. The West sucks, therefore noone from the West deserves an individual award for excellence over someone in the East, regardless of the Eastern team the guy plays for (In other words, a GFRR fan will favor a Fargo South or GF Central guy before someone in the West gets the award).

2. He's a good player on a bad team and a bad team means everything (I guess) when it comes to who fans think deserves an award given to an INDIVIDUAL. Good thing no one told this to me way back when. My fondest baseball memory was Andre Dawson winning NL's MVP award despite being on a last place team. From what I understand of what I've read here, if you don't finish in the top 3, you shouldn't be considered. Come to think of it, Grafton finished 4th or 5th this year and their coach got the coach of the year award. I'm sure that was bogus as well.

Come to think of it, after reading this thread, I'm now even happier Herbal got the Mr. Hockey award.

[UNDhockey22]

I don't know. I kindof get knownothing's point. You know, I could argue that some arbitrary guy on GPR deserved it... let's say, the guy who wears #7. I could come up with the best case imaginable and I might even convince the lot of you (most if not all of you know more about high school hockey than I, I admit) that I'm right and, you know what? It won't mean a damn thing.

Why? Because message board posters and hockey fans don't choose Mr. Hockey. The Coaches did. So, the coaches chose Herbal whether you liked him or not.

From reading this board, Herbal has two things going against him in the eyes of the typical poster here:

1. He plays for a Western team. The West sucks, therefore noone from the West deserves an individual award for excellence over someone in the East, regardless of the Eastern team the guy plays for (In other words, a GFRR fan will favor a Fargo South or GF Central guy before someone in the West gets the award).

2. He's a good player on a bad team and a bad team means everything (I guess) when it comes to who fans think deserves an award given to an INDIVIDUAL. Good thing no one told this to me way back when. My fondest baseball memory was Andre Dawson winning NL's MVP award despite being on a last place team. From what I understand of what I've read here, if you don't finish in the top 3, you shouldn't be considered. Come to think of it, Grafton finished 4th or 5th this year and their coach got the coach of the year award. I'm sure that was bogus as well.

Come to think of it, after reading this thread, I'm now even happier Herbal got the Mr. Hockey award.

RedWing77, are you reading this message board, or just coming to your own conclusions? No one said Herbel did not deserve the award because he was from the West (great players come from both sides of the state). No one has said anything about Herbel not deserving the award because he plays for a bad team. I'm not so sure what your reading skills are like but maybe you need to have them fine tuned in the near future.

To tell you the truth RedWing77, I think your a liar. You say "I could argue that some arbitrary guy on GPR deserved it... let's say, the guy who wears #7. I could come up with the best case imaginable and I might even convince the lot of you (most if not all of you know more about high school hockey than I, I admit) that I'm right". Could you really? Could you really post something like that? I doubt it. I would love to see you try, however.

You don't know if Eric Herbel is the best player in the state. You don't know if Danny Wurden is the best player in the state. But some of us, unlike you, are able to distinguish between good players and great players.

Now, I would be thrilled if someone could make a case on behalf of Herbel that says something other than "he won the award, get over it". Or "the coachs voted him so he is the best player in the state". Those are hardly arguments that someone with hockey sense would make. If your argument is going to be "the winner of the award deserved it", okay. Just like when Wayne Gretzky was 19 and he lost the scoring title because he was tied for points but he had less goals and more assists. Although, the scoring race is not as much a matter of opinion like an MVP award would be, it is a matter of opinion that goals are more important than assists. Is that that proper opinion? You could side with those who voted on the award (coachs, like you are now). Or you could side with arguably one of the greatest hockey minds to ever grace the ice (Wayne Gretzky, who said by giving the award to the person with more goals, you're sending the message that assists are not as important as goals). Point being, you can't always just go by what a high school hockey coach thinks. Does the coach have his own agenda? Maybe. How much does he really know about the game? If you've studied the game, these are things you are able to do, if you haven't you have to take the opinion of the person with more knowledge. Which is what you are doing. These coachs know more than you, so you side with them.

Somebody should ask Herbel who he thinks the best player in the state is.

[knownothing]

Boy are you pompous!

[ND Pride]

Brandon Askew is pursuing becoming a golfer on the PGA tour (without much success I must ad) Played for the Ice Sharks tell he hurt his shoulder. Then played golf at UNLV and TCU throughout college

Although I am not associated with any of the Fargo South programs I do know a few things that I can share about Brandon Askew. He moved from the North side of Fargo to the South side before squirts. He was a star player throughout his tenure with the Fargo Flyers. Dean Wilson had him play varsity as a 9th grader and he was very successful. He was the scoring leader in the East and in the state for his senior year (1999-2000) and did win Mr. Hockey. Given the schedule that South played in those days he put up some great numbers against North Dakota and Minnesota competition. I remember that he had about 56 points which is equivalent to a higher point total today as the teams can play more games and the extension of periods to 17 minutes adds the equivalence of about 3 and 1/2 more games to the schedule. He did play after the high school season in 2000 with the Ice Sharks but took a D-1 golf scholarship over Junior A hockey in the fall of 2000. He was an outstanding player and would have had a lot of success in juniors and beyond. He is currently pursuing a professional career in golf. His father is Mark Askew, a physician at Orthopedic Associates of Fargo. The elder Askew was an outstanding football player at the D-II level.

[UNDhockey22]

Boy are you pompous!

Great point, you just changed my opinion (rolling eyes).

If by pompous you mean intelligent, then yes, I am very pompous.

[Mr. Blanston]

It does no good to sit here and argue over something very few of you on this board are educated about. The fact of the matter is that Eric Herbel is not a great hockey player. I have seen him play, his skills would be slightly above average on a team such as Red River, South, or Grafton. He played in the Elite II league last fall, which is comprised primarily of freshmen, sophomores, and juniors in nodak and minnesota, and did not stand out. Dan Wurden, on the other hand, played in the Elite league, amongst the best players in Minnesota, and was chosen by scouts and coaches to participate in the league's all-star weekend, signifying that he was a stand out in that league. Think of the last three winners of the award. Jordan McIntyre (narrow win over teammate Matt Moreland), Jake Marto, Paul Weisgarber. Putting Herbel in the same category as those three is completely undermining their accomplishments that distinguished them as great hockey players. The west coaches have embarrassed North Dakota hockey out of their own foolish pride or just plain ignorance, and although it sounds harsh, should really not be given the same power as the eastern coaches in the voting process.

[Lives-to-play-hockey-06]

It does no good to sit here and argue over something very few of you on this board are educated about. The fact of the matter is that Eric Herbel is not a great hockey player. I have seen him play, his skills would be slightly above average on a team such as Red River, South, or Grafton. He played in the Elite II league last fall, which is comprised primarily of freshmen, sophomores, and juniors in nodak and minnesota, and did not stand out. Dan Wurden, on the other hand, played in the Elite league, amongst the best players in Minnesota, and was chosen by scouts and coaches to participate in the league's all-star weekend, signifying that he was a stand out in that league. Think of the last three winners of the award. Jordan McIntyre (narrow win over teammate Matt Moreland), Jake Marto, Paul Weisgarber. Putting Herbel in the same category as those three is completely undermining their accomplishments that distinguished them as great hockey players. The west coaches have embarrassed North Dakota hockey out of their own foolish pride or just plain ignorance, and although it sounds harsh, should really not be given the same power as the eastern coaches in the voting process.

Good point, Blanston. Bottineau played JV competition this year (Bismarck Century's and Bismarck High's). Seriously, Whapeton's A.D just called and he thinks that's jacked up.

12-8 at Bis. Century JV W 3 2 Getzlaff 33 [2-2]

12-27 vs Bienfait W 8 2 Getzlaff 10 [4-4]

12-28 vs Central Butte W 6 2 Getzlaff 13 [5-4]

12-29 vs Morden T 3 3 Getzlaff 19 [5-4-1]

1-4 at Antler River W 5 4 Getzlaff 27 [6-4-1]

1-27 Bis. High J.V. L 1 2 Getzlaff 30 [10-8-1]

I hear Beinfeit is pretty good this year. Central Butte is also strong year in and year out. Antler River? I think Shanley tried to schedule those guys but AR turned them down in fear of getting embarressed.

It is also nice too see that they could put it together for three whole periods against the BHS J.V.

[Wilbur]

It does no good to sit here and argue over something very few of you on this board are educated about. The fact of the matter is that Eric Herbel is not a great hockey player. I have seen him play, his skills would be slightly above average on a team such as Red River, South, or Grafton. He played in the Elite II league last fall, which is comprised primarily of freshmen, sophomores, and juniors in nodak and minnesota, and did not stand out. Dan Wurden, on the other hand, played in the Elite league, amongst the best players in Minnesota, and was chosen by scouts and coaches to participate in the league's all-star weekend, signifying that he was a stand out in that league. Think of the last three winners of the award. Jordan McIntyre (narrow win over teammate Matt Moreland), Jake Marto, Paul Weisgarber. Putting Herbel in the same category as those three is completely undermining their accomplishments that distinguished them as great hockey players. The west coaches have embarrassed North Dakota hockey out of their own foolish pride or just plain ignorance, and although it sounds harsh, should really not be given the same power as the eastern coaches in the voting process.

Let me first say that I thought Wurden should have won the award. I never got a chance to see Herbal play, but getting to see Wurden play a couple of games was a treat. Great skater, physical, and played a lot of minutes. To say that this is embarassing for North Dakota hockey is complete ignorance on your part. One kid from the west wins the award the last 15 years, and its a horrible thing? I feel sorry for Wurden, but he will probably still get drafted, and have a great hockey career playing college hockey somewhere. I don't think not winning Mr. Hockey will have a huge affect on him. I think it will be more of a motivator than anything.

I have a question for you though. You are the coach of Dickinson. You played Bottineau and the Herbal kid lit your team up, and is the best player you've seen all season. Grafton and South won't play you, so you don't get a chance to see their top players. How can you vote for a player that you've never seen?

[par king attendant]

And in the end it really boils down to... who really cares. It appears undhockey22 that you are on a crusade to accompolish something. If it's to change the results of Mr. Hockey than by all means I encourage you to carry that banner. However, I don't know the success you'll have in doing that here. Be active, get out and about- facilitate change. In reality I honestly believe you don't believe that strongly in this issue, I think, what you really want is someone to just to listen to you. I'm inclined to agree with Redwing77's and Knownothings position on this one.

The reality is I'm an east hockey guy, a gf hockey guy, and honestly do feel maybe a little smug when a GF team claims the title, honestly have never really cared about the Mr. Hockey award that much... it is who it is, always has been, in my belief.

I saw Wurden plenty of times this year, he is very good defenseman, but wait, was he the best I saw this year, and I saw a fair amount of him, I would have to say no. He certainly didn't impress in the Red River regular season drubbing of South, and the other times I saw him I felt this guy's good, he may go on and do some things (and I hope he does) but he's not the best I saw. They may only be juniors this year and not elgible for the award but I will take the 2 RR dmen every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I may even place Swanson from WF ahead of him as well, and you know what that's my perspective. As far as, compared to other Seniors in the state... I'll take Everson from DL, that's who should have been Mr. Hockey. Again, my perspective and I watched a lot of hockey this year.

This is the only thing that scares me in this whole situation undhockey22, if you're 15, I can see a young person getting pretty worked up about Mr. Hockey, I'll your give you your free pass... on how worked up you seem to be on this topic but if you're over the age of 20, clearly you may have some other issues to deal with

Congrats, Mr. Herbel...I don't really care about this award, however your genuine surprise reaction when you were awarded it at the Ralph was worth it, and the fact that it apparently has dug itself into the skin and irratated undhockey22 is worth it as well.

[Lives-to-play-hockey-06]

Let me first say that I thought Wurden should have won the award. I never got a chance to see Herbal play, but getting to see Wurden play a couple of games was a treat. Great skater, physical, and played a lot of minutes. To say that this is embarassing for North Dakota hockey is complete ignorance on your part. One kid from the west wins the award the last 15 years, and its a horrible thing? I feel sorry for Wurden, but he will probably still get drafted, and have a great hockey career playing college hockey somewhere. I don't think not winning Mr. Hockey will have a huge affect on him. I think it will be more of a motivator than anything.

I have a question for you though. You are the coach of Dickinson. You played Bottineau and the Herbal kid lit your team up, and is the best player you've seen all season. Grafton and South won't play you, so you don't get a chance to see their top players. How can you vote for a player that you've never seen?

Dickenson beat bottineau 3-2? He didn't light anyone up except Beinfeit and Antler River and HB (a team that lost to whap). He couldn't even light up BHS's JV.

[UNDhockey22]

Let me first say that I thought Wurden should have won the award. I never got a chance to see Herbal play, but getting to see Wurden play a couple of games was a treat. Great skater, physical, and played a lot of minutes. To say that this is embarassing for North Dakota hockey is complete ignorance on your part. One kid from the west wins the award the last 15 years, and its a horrible thing? I feel sorry for Wurden, but he will probably still get drafted, and have a great hockey career playing college hockey somewhere. I don't think not winning Mr. Hockey will have a huge affect on him. I think it will be more of a motivator than anything.

I have a question for you though. You are the coach of Dickinson. You played Bottineau and the Herbal kid lit your team up, and is the best player you've seen all season. Grafton and South won't play you, so you don't get a chance to see their top players. How can you vote for a player that you've never seen?

A few things. Not winning the Mr. Hockey award will have no affect on Wurdens success in the future or hurt his draft stock at all. NHL scouts could care less about who wins this award. Now, it really does not matter how often a player from the West wins the award, either. Just because a player from the West has not won the award for 15 years does not mean that we should favor players that are nominated for the award from that side of the state because it has not had a winner in a long duration.

Now, Blanston, I agree very much so with the majority of your post. But in the beginning of your post you say "It does no good to sit here and argue over something very few of you on this board are educated about." Well, and I am not intending to be standoffish because I agree with most of this post but, where is your hockey education coming from? I only ask because at the end of your post you say something to the extent that Western coachs should not have the same voting power as Eastern coachs? Tell me how that solves the problem? That would not solve the problem, my friend.

[dizzle-1]

Biased? I am not friends with Wurden nor Herbel. I do not like South, and I think Bottineau has a terrible team. You can have your opinion that Herbel deserved the award, but your opinion is still wrong.

Get over it? I simply replied to a statement made on this message board, and then replied again when someone questioned what I know to be a fact. I am not losing any sleep over this, but it's sad when someone who is clearly the best player in the state is not acknowledged like he should be.

End lesson.

Everyone can have their own opinion, whether its right or wrong. You are not always right, but since you say you are should we just start calling you God then? Have you ever thought that Mr. Hockey isnt just based on the best hockey player but also on school and outside of school activities? Mr. Wurden has a very poor GPA and Mr. Miller had legal troubles this past summer. If the award is indeed to involve that criteria, then that would hurt their chances correct?

Mr. Herbal won the award and there is nothing you can do about it. Everyone has heard your opinion enough amount of times, so dont go bashing others for their own thoughts, and just drop it because no matter what you say, it wont change what has happened.

[ND Pride]

I think it is time to let the 2007 Mr. Hockey issue go. The award certainly has not led to a widespread knowledge of how to spell his name (Herbel). Let's move on to other issues. For example, the Team North Dakota tryouts are coming up this month. Does anyone have a read on who will be trying out. The team will be in the top pool again based on their consistent performance over the past few years. Top pool placement provides a team with favorable game times and that makes it easier for the USHL, NAHL, etc scouts to see the players. There were plenty of scouts last year so any player that has post high school aspirations will get a good look at the Showcase.

[Mr. Blanston]

A few things. Not winning the Mr. Hockey award will have no affect on Wurdens success in the future or hurt his draft stock at all. NHL scouts could care less about who wins this award. Now, it really does not matter how often a player from the West wins the award, either. Just because a player from the West has not won the award for 15 years does not mean that we should favor players that are nominated for the award from that side of the state because it has not had a winner in a long duration.

Now, Blanston, I agree very much so with the majority of your post. But in the beginning of your post you say "It does no good to sit here and argue over something very few of you on this board are educated about." Well, and I am not intending to be standoffish because I agree with most of this post but, where is your hockey education coming from? I only ask because at the end of your post you say something to the extent that Western coachs should not have the same voting power as Eastern coachs? Tell me how that solves the problem? That would not solve the problem, my friend.

UNDhockey22,

The problem is one which most of us should agree on, that Herbel is not a skilled enough player to be called Mr. Hockey. Most of you should also agree that the majority, if not all, of his votes came from coaches in the WDA. Therefore, it's logical to conclude that if western coaches had less voting power, Herbel would not have won, and North Dakota hockey would not be embarrassed like it will be when their "senior athlete of the year" can't make a junior A team this summer. This can only perpetuate the stereotype that North Dakota hockey is terrible.

Wilbur,

If I am the coach of any team that lose to Bottineau, I grab a bottle of scotch and a handgun and... just kidding Wilbs, no offense. In all seriousness, I addressed this issue in my previous post, and this particular situation would fall under the category of ignorance of a specific western coach. Even if he does get lit up by Herbel, he has got to be conscious enough of the level of skill that is out there on the ice in front of him, and of the level of skill of the top three EDC teams. However, he is not conscious of this incredible disparity, which I fear is the case with many other western coaches as well. Don't get me wrong, I am aware that several great hockey players have come from the west, all of whom would be legitimate winners of the award had they not left for juniors, but Eric Herbel is not one of them.

[UNDhockey22]

Everyone can have their own opinion, whether its right or wrong. You are not always right, but since you say you are should we just start calling you God then? Have you ever thought that Mr. Hockey isnt just based on the best hockey player but also on school and outside of school activities? Mr. Wurden has a very poor GPA and Mr. Miller had legal troubles this past summer. If the award is indeed to involve that criteria, then that would hurt their chances correct?

Mr. Herbal won the award and there is nothing you can do about it. Everyone has heard your opinion enough amount of times, so dont go bashing others for their own thoughts, and just drop it because no matter what you say, it wont change what has happened.

When I post on this message board, I am probably right 95% of the time if not more. I don't open my mouth on subjects in which I do not have concrete evidence to support my case. In the case of hockey, I almost always have concrete evidence to support my case. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I agree. That does not mean there opinion is an intelligent one, however. If I were to say, in my opinion the classiest player to ever play in the NHL was Marty McSorely, it would be my opinion, but that would not make it intelligent.

I am not posting to try to get someone to appeal who the award was given to and have it handed to Wurden. No. This conversation arose because some people felt the award went to the proper individual, which it clearly did not. I do not base many of my posts on opinions soley of myself. USHL, NAHL, WCHA, and NHL scouts would agree that Danny Wurden was the best player in the state of ND this year. Now, if you want to call me God for not only studying the game of hockey, and using opinions of individuals who have similiar and greater hockey knowledge than mine (NHL scouts) to help draw my conclusions, instead of posting unintelligent and biased opinions, go right ahead.

I have thought about the outside factors that go into Mr. Hockey. Even so, Danny Wurden was too good to be passed up for the award.

[Warthog]

I think all the western coaches voted Herbel #1 and gave the #2 and #3 vote to Wurden and Miller. The eastern coaches spilt the voted between Miller,Wurden,Kyle Everson and Eric Meland. Does anybody think there was a eastern coach that voted Herbel in there top 3. If the western coaches are as brain dead as everybody think, why has been 15 years since the last Mr.hockey. They could pull this off every year if they work together in there voting. There is one person who can tell use everything we want to know !!!!!! Bob Gillen... Bob did you see Herbel play @ West Region. What did you think?

[Wilbur]

Dickenson beat bottineau 3-2? He didn't light anyone up except Beinfeit and Antler River and HB (a team that lost to whap). He couldn't even light up BHS's JV.

I just used Dickinson as an example. Maybe I should have used Jamestown, because Bottineau did end their season.

I think you completely missed my point though, but thats okay. And he would have had to impress more than Beinfeit and Antler River, because those coaches don't get votes for Mr. Hockey, and the HB coach only gets one vote.

I'll say it again, I think Wurden was the best player, its sad for him that he didn't get the award, but its over with.

[UNDhockey22]

I think all the western coaches voted Herbel #1 and gave the #2 and #3 vote to Wurden and Miller. The eastern coaches spilt the voted between Miller,Wurden,Kyle Everson and Eric Meland. Does anybody think there was a eastern coach that voted Herbel in there top 3. If the western coaches are as brain dead as everybody think, why has been 15 years since the last Mr.hockey. They could pull this off every year if they work together in there voting. There is one person who can tell use everything we want to know !!!!!! Bob Gillen... Bob did you see Herbel play @ West Region. What did you think?

Eric Meland is a junior. He was not up for the award.

Anyway, you proved Blantsons point. There were coachs in the East who could not decide whether to give the award to Wurden, or the leading scorer in the state (Miller). Every coach from the West wanted some recognition for the West and voted for Herbel.

[choyt3]

So, if I am reading this right, Herbel was named the winner of the 2006-2007 Outstanding Senior Athlete in North Dakota because the coaches in the West Region conspired together to give all of their first place votes to him. Is that correct?

Also, could someone point me to the section in the criteria for the award where it says that the winner must be the player that goes the furthest as far as hockey career goes? Seems that has been bantered about by some posters here as a reason Herbel should not have won the award. To me it also seems that it is very difficult to read into the future in order to determine who that person will be. maybe some different stages should be factored in, such as "who is the most successful hockey player next year", or "who is the most successful hockey player in five years", as each of those appear to be requirements for winning this award according to a couple of posters on here.

Maybe the award, since it has already been decided and won't be changed, should just be left as it is. Not everyone's favorite player, or son, can win.

[Stiouxy]

Do you think the fact that Wurden didnt lead his team in points, or even close to leading, had any affect on him losing votes?