Grapes on HCiN, Friday night

[MafiaMan]

Against a franchise, Detroit, that re-introduced the left wing lock over the last decade. This Oiler fan will take the win any way he can.

The rules were changed for a reason. Buffalo puts up 8 against Philly, Dallas vs Colorado and Montreal vs Carolina end up like 6-5, but Edmonton hopes for the 2-1 or 1-0 shut-out.

[Southernmn]

If I am not mistaken there is a number of seat sold that they consider a sell out but you still get tickets by calling the number they list during broadcasts. Its sounds like a playing with numbers.

Those would be the "standing room only" tickets, that are not "official" seats.

That's why even if the game is sold out, the attendance figures can vary.

[mccarsu]

The Wild have been sold out EVERY home game they have ever played.

I agree that based on their performance on the ice, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

I am not sure why they keep pulling people in while putting a sub par product on the ice year after year. Every other franchise in town gets ripped for not spending money on talent, but for reasons I don't understand, the Wild got a pass on this.

The Toronto Maple Leafs have not had steller seasons for oh, forever, but the old Maple Leaf Gardens was sold out each and every night. The people who attend those games, go for the love of the sport. Period. I can't stand people who bitch and complain about a team's poor season. If you are a true fan of the sport (any sport), you go to a game regardless if your home team sucks or not.

When I graduated from UND in 1975, the teams from 71 to 75 were horrible (and so was Coach Rube Bjorkman). The old Barn was always full as was the new (at the time) Winter Sports Arena. Now we were either too drunk to care or huge fans, but at least we loved our Sioux Hockey.

[Southernmn]

The Toronto Maple Leafs have not had steller seasons for oh, forever, but the old Maple Leaf Gardens was sold out each and every night. The people who attend those games, go for the love of the sport. Period. I can't stand people who bitch and complain about a team's poor season. If you are a true fan of the sport (any sport), you go to a game regardless if your home team sucks or not.

When I graduated from UND in 1975, the teams from 71 to 75 were horrible (and so was Coach Rube Bjorkman). The old Barn was always full as was the new (at the time) Winter Sports Arena. Now we were either too drunk to care or huge fans, but at least we loved our Sioux Hockey.

I think we can only agree to disagree on this.

I refuse to hand over money to millionaires (Wild ownership), who take our money, and in effect, give NOTHING back in return. Professional sports should be a 2 way street.....not the same deal with college sports.

I agree that college (and most amateur) sports should, and for the most part are, supported for the love of the game. That's why I always have, and always will, support the Gopher hockey progam (even afer the HC fiasco !! )), but would never give a dime to the Wild organization as it operates today.

[SiouxPride0303]

I think we can only agree to disagree on this.

I refuse to hand over money to millionaires (Wild ownership), who take our money, and in effect, give NOTHING back in return. Professional sports should be a 2 way street.....not the same deal with college sports.

I agree that college (and most amateur) sports should, and for the most part are, supported for the love of the game. That's why I always have, and always will, support the Gopher hockey progam (even afer the HC fiasco !! )), but would never give a dime to the Wild organization as it operates today.

I would have to agree with you. I live in Chicago and go the Hawks games just because I love the game and I get my hockey fix. But I pay 8 bucks (for a $15 top-of the arena seat) for my seat as a student. If I had to pay much more for the Hawks, I wouldnt. I also think its sad that I can attend an NHL game for 8 bucks. But hey, I wont complain

The nights I've went, there have been a lot of fans there. Granted I've been to games against the Wings, Flames and Ducks but even the Blues games had butts in the seats. It surprises me actually since the Hawks are clearly a bottom of the league team.

[siouxnami]

Major junior players can still attend college classes.

Really? To whom? ESPN/ESPN2 televises the Frozen Four and regional networks televise most games of select teams. Major junior games, regular season and playoffs, are televised throughout the season on one of Canada's national sports networks. Seems like a wash to me.

The NCAA is rapidly producing more and more NHLers than it used to, yes, but the total numbers don't yet approach the CHL (WHL, OHL, QMJHL).

Oh that's right. Because scouts never travel.

College classes doesn't equal Accredited US College.

Exposure, good point...

To steal from heisenberg "If group A gets 20% of elite north american talent and produces 30% of the north american nhlers and group B gets 80% of the elite north american talent and produces 70% of the north american nhlers; B is better because they produce more nhlers.

Scouts to travel, but connections matter and Backswampwater, Canada doesn't have too many direct flights.

Not to mention that the college hockey facilities are leaving WHL's in the dust. And finally we don't need our national body trying to manipulate the balence of power like canada's.

[Sioux-cia]

Happened to still have the Blackhawks/Oilers program and put together the following re. the Blackhawks. Don't know that it's going to add alot to the conversation but I found it interesting:

21 Canadian Players

4 American Players

3 Czech Players

2 Russian Players

1 Player each from Ukraine, Sweden, Finland and Kazakhstan

Coach> Canadian

Assist Coach> Canadian

Assist Coach> Canadian

Strength &

Conditoning> Canadian

Coach

Goaltending

Coach > Canadian

Skating

Coach> American

Goaltending

Consultant> Russian

(Side note: Broadcaster> Troy Murray)

[SiouxPride0303]

[siouxnami]

College classes doesn't equal Accredited US College.

Scouts to travel, but connections matter and Backswampwater, Canada doesn't have too many direct flights.

And finally we don't need our national body trying to manipulate the balence of power like canada's.

[SiouxPride0303]

[siouxnami]

I'm not looking to get into a pissing match with you, I was asking simple questions. Sorry for trying to better my understanding.

Thank you for your clarification. Your eloquence and articulation is unmatched and astounding. Thank you for simplyfing your vernacular to help out us lesser folk

Sorry, my dog got me up too early this morning. That dog is so getting a electric shock barking collar. Also I understand like 3 words in the second paragraph. In order for me to get into a pissing match with you, you have to bring it down to my level...

[SiouxPride0303]

Sorry, my dog got me up too early this morning. That dog is so getting a electric shock barking collar. Also I understand like 3 words in the second paragraph. In order for me to get into a pissing match with you, you have to bring it down to my level...

Its always the dog around here...somebody else's dog got them into trouble earlier this season....

[Canuck]

College classes doesn't equal Accredited US College.

Oh, excuuuuuuuuuse me.

[siouxnami]

Oh, excuuuuuuuuuse me.

Might as well be Billy Bob's 10 minute online MBA... The college courses in MOST cases are a failed pathetic attempt to be something other than a potential dead end hockey camp.

As many of you might have guessed I really dislike the WHL and what the do to their kids...

[siouxnami]

Education in the WHL:

[Canuck]

Might as well be Billy Bob's 10 minute online MBA... The college courses in MOST cases are a failed pathetic attempt to be something other than a potential dead end hockey camp.

As many of you might have guessed I really dislike the WHL and what the do to their kids...

Perhaps you had a personal situation that has caused you to feel this way, but it sure doesn't look to me that they're treated as horribly as you imply:

http://whl.ca/education/

Of particular note:

All costs associated with a player?s education, whether high school or post-secondary courses, are covered by the WHL Club.

And:

The WHL Scholarship is fully guaranteed - for every season a player participates in the WHL, he is entitled to a full year of tuition, textbooks and compulsory fees to a Canadian or American post-secondary institution of his choice.

[nodakvindy]

Perhaps you had a personal situation that has caused you to feel this way, but it sure doesn't look to me that they're treated as horribly as you imply:

http://whl.ca/education/

Of particular note:

And:

Provided the player never signs a pro contract.

Another advantage for the NCAA is the certainty of where you will play. A kid can't get shipped off to Union or Merrimack if they get off to a slow start.

[Canuck]

Provided the player never signs a pro contract.

Another advantage for the NCAA is the certainty of where you will play. A kid can't get shipped off to Union or Merrimack if they get off to a slow start.

Maybe give my post another read, because the first excerpt I highlighted deals with players during their junior years:

All costs associated with a player?s education, whether high school or post-secondary courses, are covered by the WHL Club.

[nodakvindy]

Canuck,

I wasn't responding to your first comment, just clarifying the second which pertained to the college scholarship. The scholarship is really the meat of the education package. Do you really believe that players are making meaningful progress in education while they are playing in a league with a 70 game season and road trips like Portland to Brandon and Everett to Regina? Add to that the possibility a player could be traded, and taking classes while playing is a very difficult task.

With regard to the WHL scholarship, the portion you quoted made that seem guaranteed. I simply pointed out that wasn't the case. Once a player signs a contract, the scholarship is forfeited.

[Goon]

I have a question for Canuck? Are you actually a Sioux fan or are you just here to defend Canada's honor and pick apart what is wrong with American hockey (as you see it) but also you seem to be a little petty if not nit picky with UND fans because we are not kissing the ring when it comes to WHL/CHL hockey or Canadian hockey as a whole. No, seriously all flaming aside, you seem to have an axe to grind with most American fans of the college game. Why do you come here to post? Just wondering? Because I haven't seen you make one post that was very nice about anything that is NCAA or UND.

I have gathered these things from reading your post the last few years and I am trying to clear some things up here. You seem to be very anti Sioux and almost anti American-anti college hockey. Maybe I am reading you wrong.

Lastly, This is a UND message board that is part of college hockey, not a CHL/WHL hockey page, I could actually care less about the WHL or Major Junior hockey in Canada, in many respects Major Junior hockey in Canada is nothing more than a meat market with its sole purpose is to groom hockey for the Professional ranks I am sure the hockey is good but the NCAA is starting to take from those ranks. To me this proves that the standing of the NCAA is starting to make head way with the players of teir 1 hockey players north of the border. No one should be shocked that this board isn't going to have a pro Major Jr hockey oppinion nor really a pro canadian slant either. This page is about the Sioux and don't get me wrong we appreciate our Canadian players from the Prairies of Canada.

Goon's take on Don Cherry:

On one last note I love Don Cherry in my oppinion the man is Canada's version of Rush Limbaugh that is a better dresser and hasn't been arrested for pain killer abuse. It seem Cherry is as polerizing of a character, you either like him or hate him. Frankly, I agree with most of what he says. The thing I admires about the man is very patriotic and loves the troops and that Cherry has a lot of nice things to say about North American in general. I have heard Cherry say that he appreciates the American and that they would be their for the Canadians if they were ever attacks. A view that a lot of Canadians don't have do to their socialist/leftist leanings.

I think it is funny that a lot of canucks think Cherry is a jerk (cherry apparently is loved in the USA) and that all he does is promote goons and thugs as his favorite hockey players, that isn't exactly true, the other night he chastised Neil from the Sens for turtling after challenging Dingman to a fight (apparently Neil pointed at Dingman who was sitting on the Lighting bench and said you and me next, so next shift out Dingman challenges this a$$ to a fight and Neil dropps to the ice and turtles--totally classless). Then Cherry bad mouthed Zedano Chara for goading a smaller skilled player Vincent Lecavalier into a fight when he didn't need too. What Cherry promotes is a code of conduct, you conduct yourself like a thug you should have to pay for it. That I would like to see the NCAA adopt, if you hack a star player with your stick you have to defend your actions by fighting. There is no hiding behind the officials. If Punkovich had played in the USHL, NHL or WHL he would have been killed or beat up very bad.

Lastly, a lot of people have said that Cherry is very zenphobic and doesn't like the euro players in the NHL but he is expressing fears a lot of people have. Personally I would rather see a bunch of north American players in the NHL as opposed to all the players from Sweden and Russia. That is my personal opinion and there are quite a few out there that feel the same way. I remember hearing Gopher fans talking about the same thing, most of them didn't want to see a bunch of Candians on their team and wanted to see the boys from Minnesota playing for the Maroon and gold.

Edited April 29, 2006 by Goon

[Canuck]

Yes, I would think you are reading it wrong, Goon. I think if you read every single post I have ever made, you will not find a single instance of me being anti-NCAA. I'm simply trying to bring a different perspective to certain arguments, since, because of geography, I spent the first 17 years of my life following Canadian junior hockey, and the last 10 years of my life following NCAA hockey. Therefore, I like to think I can bring a little different perspective to some of these discussions.

Also, I've never once said junior hockey is better than NCAA hockey or vice versa. They both have their pros and they both have their cons, and the truth of the matter is, I tremendously enjoy both of them, sometimes for very different reasons.

But every now and then I read on here a post that contains some sort of phallacy, or maybe some sort of opinion about things North of the border that I see as uninformed, and I feel the need to respond.

The impression that I'm even one percent anti-Sioux or anti-NCAA would probably downright laughable to anyone who knows me.

To simplify, I never said you receive an ideal education playing junior hockey. But the implication in some previous posts was that you get zero education, or at least an inferior one. The fact that WHL scholarships are forfeited in the event of signing a pro contract...well, tell me something: What happens to an NCAA scholarship when a player signs a contract, or is even cut?

I'm not trying to grind an axe; just trying to engage in discussions. I thought that's what these boards were for.

[nodakvindy]

Yes, I would think you are reading it wrong, Goon. I think if you read every single post I have ever made, you will not find a single instance of me being anti-NCAA. I'm simply trying to bring a different perspective to certain arguments, since, because of geography, I spent the first 17 years of my life following Canadian junior hockey, and the last 10 years of my life following NCAA hockey. Therefore, I like to think I can bring a little different perspective to some of these discussions.

Also, I've never once said junior hockey is better than NCAA hockey or vice versa. They both have their pros and they both have their cons, and the truth of the matter is, I tremendously enjoy both of them, sometimes for very different reasons.

But every now and then I read on here a post that contains some sort of phallacy, or maybe some sort of opinion about things North of the border that I see as uninformed, and I feel the need to respond.

The impression that I'm even one percent anti-Sioux or anti-NCAA would probably downright laughable to anyone who knows me.

To simplify, I never said you receive an ideal education playing junior hockey. But the implication in some previous posts was that you get zero education, or at least an inferior one. The fact that WHL scholarships are forfeited in the event of signing a pro contract...well, tell me something: What happens to an NCAA scholarship when a player signs a contract, or is even cut?

I'm not trying to grind an axe; just trying to engage in discussions. I thought that's what these boards were for.

I know who Canuck is and wouldn't question his allegiance to the Sioux. And I thought you would bring up when an NCAA player signs a contract. The key difference is that while they lose the scholarship, while playing college hockey, school is at least as important as hockey (or at least it should be). That is in no way the case in the CHL. So a guy that played NCAA for three years then signed a contract has three years of college/university completed, while a guy who plays three years in the CHL and then signs a contract has nothing.

This whole "argument" was based on development toward the NHL, and the only guys that can benefit from the CHL scholarship program are ones that do not go on to the pros.

[Siouxdonyms]

The key difference is that while they lose the scholarship, while playing college hockey, school is at least as important as hockey (or at least it should be).

Ask Travis Roche that question. Hell of a hockey player. Not so hell of a student.

[Canuck]

I know who Canuck is and wouldn't question his allegiance to the Sioux. And I thought you would bring up when an NCAA player signs a contract. The key difference is that while they lose the scholarship, while playing college hockey, school is at least as important as hockey (or at least it should be). That is in no way the case in the CHL. So a guy that played NCAA for three years then signed a contract has three years of college/university completed, while a guy who plays three years in the CHL and then signs a contract has nothing.

This whole "argument" was based on development toward the NHL, and the only guys that can benefit from the CHL scholarship program are ones that do not go on to the pros.

I understand your point, but also keep in mind that college players are, of course, college age. I would say more than half of the CHL players are still in high school. Those who are older at least have the option to attend college while playing.

No, it isn't an ideal situation because of the aforementioned 70-game schedule, but that is one of the plusses of the junior ranks: many will tell you that 70-game schedule better prepares a player for the adjustment to the grind of a pro schedule.

Again, one isn't right and one isn't wrong; it's the preference of the player.

[Goon]

I understand your point, but also keep in mind that college players are, of course, college age. I would say more than half of the CHL players are still in high school. Those who are older at least have the option to attend college while playing.

Canuck thanks for answering my questions, it clears thing up a bit for me.

I am also for the NCAA letting kids that play in the CHL/WHL while in high school being able to play in the NCAA after high school without them losing any eligibility, however, the NCAA doesn't see it that way because Major Junior hockey players are consider something to the effect of being a semi-pro because they receive per-diem for their meals.