Suspense is killing me

[star2city]

First of all we have 9 games already scheduled for 07-08. 07-08 you'll be in limo.

You mean 'limbo'? If you have 9 games, you need 2 more. Cal-Davis, Poly, SDSU, and SUU will need games, regardless.

You may have saved some travel cost (not close to 10 million) by following NDSU, UNC, and SDSU's lead if and it's a big IF we get into a conference.

Not only travel costs ($1 million a year), but additional scholarships (50/yr x tuition/room/board/books ), less coaches and staff with salaries, and less lost revenue due to poor basketball attendance = $2 million /year.

Fact is you'll have moved up to DI without a conference something everyone on this board said is the leading factor you didn't move up before. It's not written in stone that the BSC will move to 12 teams, they could just as easily take 1 and be a 10 team conference or stay where they are.

During the exploratory year, UND can back out any time. If the Big Sky does not come through within one year, UND is not obligated to continue on to DI.

If you move up now the only reason will be jealousy, nothing has changed from 3 years ago.

A desirable conference appears to be on the verge of offering UND membership. That is a HUGE change. A DI move by UND has always been based on what's best for its community as a whole - it is not based on what NDSU does or does not do. It seems you Bison fans always apply the wrong motives to UND's intentions. The very motive you ascribe to UND reveals your the condition of your own heart and mind.

[Bigears]

A desirable conference appears to be on the verge of offering UND membership.

Do you have any evidence at all that that is actually true? I've seen nothing in the media to indicate that. In fact, it seems very unlikely. Geography remains a significant problem for all the Dakota schools. There just aren't many D1 schools nearby and without a travel partner UND may be SOL.

[star2city]

So what you're saying is that UND officials deserve major credit for crashing NDSU and SDSU's party after all the work has been done and the risk has passed.

If this was a business world, UND officials would be hailed as brilliant leaders if they get into the Big Sky. As an example, Microsoft was never much of an innovator (Apple and Xerox were), but Microsoft's leadership had exquisite timing. Great leadership is not about taking great risks, but taking risks at the right time for great rewards.

I think UND will encounter a great deal more resistance to this from NDSU and SDSU than what you expect. Without the Bison and Jackrabbits your chances of getting into the BSC are zero. I don't think either school wants, or needs, a conference relationship with UND.

I have no doubt that neither SDSU nor NDSU nor their fans will look kindly upon UND if all three get into the Big Sky. But if all three get invitations and any one declines out of spite, no one will get anything.

Bison and Jackrabbit fans really underestimate the attraction that a facility like the Ralph has to Big Sky Presidents. If it wasn't for the Ralph, I have my doubts whether UND would get an invite.

[IowaBison]

1. NDSU will gladly play UND during the transition. I'd imagine it would be a 2 for 1.

Davis and Poly don't need to come to the Dakotas for another game.

2. The comment about UND doing what is best for UND is hogwash.

?I, too, miss playing NDSU - especially when we win. Pride and emotion are powerful enough sometimes even to overwhelm logic and other considerations. I recognize that we may have to make this move even though, ultimately it may make no otherwise logical or financial sense to do so ... but I'm getting ahead of myself."

Who said that again?

3. I don't believe too much that Fullerton says. First, I don't want to get too excited. Second, even he admits he (and now a couple of ADs) see the benefit of a 12 team conference. Three, Doug regular informs people that Idaho is coming back to the Sky.

[IowaBison]

I have no doubt that neither SDSU nor NDSU nor their fans will look kindly upon UND if all three get into the Big Sky. But if all three get invitations and any one declines out of spite, no one will get anything.

I would be quite happy.

1) We would be in a conference.

2) We'd 'school' you in football until you got your team up to DIAA speed (if ever).

[IowaBison]

Bison and Jackrabbit fans really underestimate the attraction that a facility like the Ralph has to Big Sky Presidents. If it wasn't for the Ralph, I have my doubts whether UND would get an invite.

That's ridiculous.

[star2city]

That's ridiculous.

Oh, really.

If USD had a Ralph, the Big Sky would be interested in USD, not UND.

[Bigears]

If this was a business world, UND officials would be hailed as brilliant leaders if they get into the Big Sky. As an example, Microsoft was never much of an innovator (Apple and Xerox were), but Microsoft's leadership had exquisite timing.

I have no doubt that neither SDSU nor NDSU nor their fans will look kindly upon UND if all three get into the Big Sky. But if all three get invitations and any one declines out of spite, no one will get anything.

Bison and Jackrabbit fans really underestimate the attraction that a facility like the Ralph has to Big Sky Presidents. If it wasn't for the Ralph, I have my doubts whether UND would get an invite.

The point is that, despite the magnificence of your HOCKEY arena, you'll need the cooperation of NDSU and SDSU upfront BEFORE the Big Sky even considers you. I don't think you'll get it.

[IowaBison]

Oh, really.

If USD had a Ralph, the Big Sky would be interested in USD, not UND.

You honestly believe that?

That's sad.

[star2city]

The point is that, despite the magnificence of your HOCKEY arena, you'll need the cooperation of NDSU and SDSU upfront BEFORE the Big Sky even considers you. I don't think you'll get it.

Now, that is ridiculous! Unless NDSU and SDSU have votes in any upcoming Big Sky expansion, NDSU and SDSU have NO say about any BSC consideration of UND.

[IowaBison]

The point is that, despite the magnificence of your HOCKEY arena, you'll need the cooperation of NDSU and SDSU upfront BEFORE the Big Sky even considers you. I don't think you'll get it.

?

Are you insane?

[IowaBison]

Now, that is ridiculous! Unless NDSU and SDSU have votes in any upcoming Big Sky expansion, NDSU and SDSU have NO say about any BSC consideration of UND.

I don't think I'd go quite that way. IMO if NDSU joined the Mid-Con, the Big Sky would no longer be interested in the Dakotas.

[star2city]

You honestly believe that?

That's sad.

That's reality, man. Stadiums and arenas matter big time. U MASS would be in the Big East right now just like UCONN if they had a football stadium. If UTEP hadn't left the WAC for CUSA, there is not way Idaho would be in the WAC now. They would have been forced back into the Big Sky because of inadequate facilities.

Dollars and facilities matter. That's sad you don't understand that. If NDSU had had a decent basketball venue by now, they would likely have had more conference interest by now.

[IowaBison]

That's reality, man. Stadiums and arenas matter big time. U MASS would be in the Big East right now just like UCONN if they had a football stadium. If UTEP hadn't left the WAC for CUSA, there is not way Idaho would be in the WAC now. They would have been forced back into the Big Sky.

Dollars and facilities matter. That's sad you don't understand that. If NDSU had had a decent basketball venue by now, they would likely have had more conference interest by now.

Butts in seats matter, dollars matter, facilities matter. Having a Taj Mahal for a sport that a conference doesn't sponsor isn't the best card in UND's hand, IMO.

I think that you are confusing supply with demand.

[star2city]

I don't think I'd go quite that way. IMO if NDSU joined the Mid-Con, the Big Sky would no longer be interested in the Dakotas.

Agreed that IF both NDSU and SDSU go to the MidCon, the Big Sky would not consider UND.

[IowaBison]

Agreed that IF both NDSU and SDSU go to the MidCon, the Big Sky would not consider UND.

Agreed.

I also don't know if they'd take UND and SDSU.

[star2city]

Butts in seats matter, dollars matter, facilities matter. Having a Taj Mahal for a sport that a conference doesn't sponsor isn't the best card in UND's hand, IMO.

I think that you are confusing supply with demand.

Basketball WILL be a tenant in the main Ralph Arena for most DI conference games. A Taj Majal attracts higher profile athletes (not suggesting UND basetball will become even top 100 RPI - but a 100-200 RPI is entirely reasonable). That would not have been possible with the Hyslop.

[IowaBison]

Basketball WILL be a tenant in the main Ralph Arena for most DI conference games. A Taj Majal attracts higher profile athletes (not suggesting UND basetball will become even top 100 RPI - but a 100-200 RPI is entirely reasonable). That would not have been possible with the Hyslop.

Honestly, what do you think UND's average attendance would be in DI not counting a NDSU game?

3,000 tops would be my opinion. Why would you want to play in the Ralph?

Edited: and SDSU.

[Bigears]

Now, that is ridiculous! Unless NDSU and SDSU have votes in any upcoming Big Sky expansion, NDSU and SDSU have NO say about any BSC consideration of UND.

The primary problem all the Dakota schools face with regard to BSC membership is geography. That problem is worse for UND - it has no travel partner. It will, therefore, be more difficult for UND because of that.

Also, SDSU and NDSU are farther along in the D1 process. At this point they are more valuable to the Big Sky from a competitive standpoint than is UND. It seems unlikely to me that the Big Sky would bring in UND over the objections of NDSU and SDSU. Why not wait awhile? The attitude of the Big Sky presidents would likely be something like "NDSU and SDSU have proven their commitment to D1, UND has not. UND can come back in a few years and we'll see if anything has changed."

In any case, antagonizing NDSU and SDSU did not, and will not, help UND.

[star2city]

Honestly, what do you think UND's average attendance would be in DI not counting a NDSU game?

3,000 tops would be my opinion. Why would you want to play in the Ralph?

Edited: and SDSU.

Having men's BBall games in the Ralph mean's Suiteholders HAVE to buy tickets. A DI move has to be paid for and getting the guarantees from the Suites brings in corporate money that the Betty doesn't provide. Not saying all games will be in the Ralph, but certainly most conference games.

NDSU game - 8 - 9000

SDSU game - 5 - 6000 (travel well )

MSU/UM games - 4 -5000 (new rivalry games)

Other conference- 3-4000

Non-conference - 2-3000 (in the Betty)

Winning season - 3500-45000 average

Losing season - 2500-3500 average

Add an extra 500-1000 for the initial novelty of being in the Big SKy the first few years.

[star2city]

The primary problem all the Dakota schools face with regard to BSC membership is geography. That problem is worse for UND - it has no travel partner. It will, therefore, be more difficult for UND because of that.

NDSU will be UND's travel partner. SDSU will partner with Northern Colorado, which doesn't have a natural travel partner anyway.

Also, SDSU and NDSU are farther along in the D1 process. At this point they are more valuable to the Big Sky from a competitive standpoint than is UND. It seems unlikely to me that the Big Sky would bring in UND over the objections of NDSU and SDSU. Why not wait awhile? The attitude of the Big Sky presidents would likely be something like "NDSU and SDSU have proven their commitment to D1, UND has not. UND can come back in a few years and we'll see if anything has changed."

In any case, antagonizing NDSU and SDSU did not, and will not, help UND.

Seems to me two consective trips to the Frozen Four and Seven National DI championships shows a lot of commitment to DI excellence.

If the Big Sky is interested in UND, NDSU and SDSU leadership and fans need to get over their pettiness so everyone wins.

[Bison_Kent]

Star2City,

I agree that the bitterness should be on the field between the Bison and Sioux. I hope that all three Dakota schools get into the Big Sky. It will enhance that conference unlike any of the previous four expansion schools, which included Sacramento State, Portland State, Cal State-Northridge (no longer in the 'Sky), and the most recent, Northern Colorado. While some of these schools have had good teams, overall, they have been average or below in most sports.

I think getting three major state schools would appease the two Montana schools from wanting to leave the conference to the WAC as these three schools would have more in common with them than any of the current schools both from an athletic point of view and also an accademic point of view.

While I cheer for the Bison on the field, I am one Bison fan that wants to see the Bison/Sioux rivalry return and hopefully it is as a Big Sky Conference game to end a season in all sports.

[USA Hockey]

Honestly, what do you think UND's average attendance would be in DI not counting a NDSU game?

3,000 tops would be my opinion. Why would you want to play in the Ralph?

Edited: and SDSU.

Many of the Big Sky, Mid-Con, Missouri Valley, and Horizon League schools don't get over 4,000 fans for a basketball game. With the exception of the NDSU game, UND could easily play D1 basketball in the Betty.

[govikes27]

It seems unlikely to me that the Big Sky would bring in UND over the objections of NDSU and SDSU..[]..In any case, antagonizing NDSU and SDSU did not, and will not, help UND.

Do you seriously think the SU's would object to UND's entry? Having all three schools in the Big Sky or any other conference would be best for everybody. That's not even debatable. If geography is the biggest issue, it seems having a 12 member conference with two division makes more sense the more schools there are here out east. I think animosity is prevent some from thinking clearly. Past dealings could and should have been better handled, but there's been a new AD since then and soon will have a new president. If school administrations can't over it everybody's going to regret it. Only zealots want the two ND schools forever seperated. And unlike us diehard types that post on message boards ( ), I think most would agree adding UND to the mix probably increases the SU's chance.

I also would have a hard time believing having the Ralph would not factor into UND's chances for an invite. It may be a hockey facility, but that it can still be used as a bball facility would be attractive to the Big Sky.

[The Sicatoka]

Folks, conferences aren't much different from the NCAA:

It's all about the Benjamins.

You have them (in budgets and facilities) or you don't. The Engelstad Complex is $110 million plus of have. Alerus Center is another $60 million plus of (city-owned, UND used) have.