SiouxTupa Posted February 22, 2006 Posted February 22, 2006 For next season, USA hockey needs to get rid of the primadonna 50 year old NHL vets, and put in some kids who know it's a priviledge...not a burden to play in the olympics. It's no good putting a team together of players who just play because they "should" and whine about hotel reservations. Plus, many of the players were far past their prime.... look who did all the scoring (Gionta). It's sad, but makes sense to me. If I were putting together a team for US Olympics (only possible in my xbox world) I would bring youth and speed. However, the teams that win are the ones with heart...I didn't see a whole lot of "inspiration" in the way this team played. Quote
Siouxdonyms Posted February 22, 2006 Author Posted February 22, 2006 Mike Madano says it's all because USA Hockey doesn't make reservations and stuff. Way to sound like an overpaid, spoiled superstar, Mike. This is why we need to get rid of the high-priced "superstars" on Team USA. Get the guys who have heart, and want to play to win for their country. We don't need players like Madonna or Roenick on this team, as life is all about their pocketbooks. IMO, guys like Gionta, Parise, Leopold, Miller, and the Eaves brothers are perfect for Olympic teams. If their heads start to get big, get rid of them as well. Get guys in their who realize that this is a team sport, and if you don't play as a team, or think about numero uno, your team will go no where. Another disgraceful Olympic showing for Team USA. Fire the idiots who put this team together, and get someone in there who has an idea about international hockey, and the players who will play their hearts out on the ice, and not complain about living accommodations they have while doing so. Quote
Goon Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 IMO, guys like Gionta, Parise, Leopold, Miller, and the Eaves brothers are perfect for Olympic teams. I think that Gionta and Leo played really well in the olympics, I was thinking how good they played but the rest of teams effort wasn't there. I think that USA needs to get some core guys together like the four mentioned above and have them play together in a World Championship a few times and dump some of the old weight. However, I do also fell that Chelios played pretty good during the olympics, what miffs me is why wasn't Brian Leach in the Olympic Games this year. Quote
Siouxdonyms Posted February 23, 2006 Author Posted February 23, 2006 I think that Gionta and Leo played really well in the olympics, I was thinking how good they played but the rest of teams effort wasn't there. I think that USA needs to get some core guys together like the four mentioned above and have them play together in a World Championship a few times and dump some of the old weight. However, I do also fell that Chelios played pretty good during the olympics, what miffs me is why wasn't Brian Leach in the Olympic Games this year. I agree that Chelios did play pretty well compared to the other older players. Don't necessarily think Leetch should have been on this team either though. He's at the latter stage of his career too, and not playing like he used to. I think Paul Martin would have been a lot better choice than Derian Hatcher though. Quote
Goon Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 I agree that Chelios did play pretty well compared to the other older players. Don't necessarily think Leetch should have been on this team either though. He's at the latter stage of his career too, and not playing like he used to. I think Paul Martin would have been a lot better choice than Derian Hatcher though. Derian Hatcher looked slow on his feet and was constantly beat, from watching Boston a lot this season on NHL center ice I thought Leetch has played well enough to make the USA team, but what do I know I am just a fan, I do think he has been a good player for USA hockey, he is long in the teeth though and maybe the olympic selection team say things the common fan didn't see, I suppose Brian being injured a good part of the season didn't help either. I am also uninspired by team USA effort during the olympics. I guess we will see a new olypic team in 2010. I hope they play with more inspiration than they did this year. Quote
Siouxdonyms Posted February 23, 2006 Author Posted February 23, 2006 Derian Hatcher looked slow on his feet and was constantly beat, from watching Boston a lot this season on NHL center ice I thought Leetch has played well enough to make the USA team I do think Leetch would have been a lot better choice than Hatcher, but I think Martin would have been the best choice. IMO, Hatcher is too big and too old for the Olympic style of play, which would explain why he looked slow on his feet (as he was slow on his feet). Quote
Tsiouxnami Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 I do think Leetch would have been a lot better choice than Hatcher, but I think Martin would have been the best choice. IMO, Hatcher is too big and too old for the Olympic style of play, which would explain why he looked slow on his feet (as he was slow on his feet). Hatcher WAS slow on his feet and that showed with the amount of time he spent in the box. While I think we do need some older/wiser?? veterans on the team for some leadership. . . perhaps a Mathieu Schneider (who I felt played well and did his part), Brian Rolston, Bill Guerin. . . geez, even Chris Drury for that matter (the guy knows how to win at all levels and I think that means something. . . I remember watching him pitch Trumbull, CT to a Little League World Series title when I was young. He won the Hobey Baker Award in 1998, won an NCAA Hockey Title at BU, was NHL Rookie of the Year in 1999 and won a Stanley Cup with the Avs in 2001.) Some people know what to do to contribute to win at all levels. . . why not try to pass some of that on to our YOUNGER NHLer's? Take Zach Parise - who also knows how to win, mind you - and build the team with those type of players. Maybe this doesn't make much sense and I am WAYYYY off base, but that is where I would start if I were in charge! Cut the dead weight (cough, cough ModanoHatcherTkachuk, etc, etc. cough, cough) and start all over again before we slide ANY farther down the totem pole. Quote
Tsiouxnami Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 On another note, I think USA Hockey also needs to reevaluate the women's program. They are in a steady slide down the totem pole also. . .Gold (2002), Silver (2004), Bronze (2006). . .heading the wrong direction. They went with youth, but in the process cut some of the heart and soul from the team. In my opinion, cutting Cammie Granato was a HUGE mistake. Yeah, she may not have been as fast as she once was, but she was still as skilled as ever AND (here's the common theme) she knows how to win!!! (Not to mention the leadership that she brings to a young team.) For goodness sakes, Canada had Danielle Goyette (she's 40) and it didn't appear to hurt them to have her there! USA Hockey needs to quickly reevalute their program and come up with a plan to right this hockey ship (Men and Women) before it sinks! (Ok, enough ranting!) Quote
SiouxTupa Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 Hatcher WAS slow on his feet and that showed with the amount of time he spent in the box. While I think we do need some older/wiser?? veterans on the team for some leadership. . . perhaps a Mathieu Schneider (who I felt played well and did his part), Brian Rolston, Bill Guerin. . . geez, even Chris Drury for that matter (the guy knows how to win at all levels and I think that means something. . . I remember watching him pitch Trumbull, CT to a Little League World Series title when I was young. He won the Hobey Baker Award in 1998, won an NCAA Hockey Title at BU, was NHL Rookie of the Year in 1999 and won a Stanley Cup with the Avs in 2001.) Some people know what to do to contribute to win at all levels. . . why not try to pass some of that on to our YOUNGER NHLer's? Take Zach Parise - who also knows how to win, mind you - and build the team with those type of players. Maybe this doesn't make much sense and I am WAYYYY off base, but that is where I would start if I were in charge! Cut the dead weight (cough, cough ModanoHatcherTkachuk, etc, etc. cough, cough) and start all over again before we slide ANY farther down the totem pole. There is one minor error in your list of Druryisms.... UND beat BU in the 1997 Frozen Four title game!!! HOORAY! #6 It was the only time Drury was a loser in his whole life. I totally agree about Martin and Drury though. The team needs some young blood. Quote
SiouxTupa Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 Nevermind....won it as a Freshman...DAMN! Maybe one of our guys will be the next Drury? Oshie perhaps?? It's crazy...in my searching I found that in his four years he also became the Terriers' all-time leading goal scorer! Amazing! ***Ahem, Hejduk is better http://www.usahockey.com/usa_hockey/main/home/drury_usa/ Check it out. Quote
MafiaMan Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 There is one minor error in your list of Druryisms.... UND beat BU in the 1997 Frozen Four title game!!! HOORAY! #6 It was the only time Drury was a loser in his whole life. UND did beat BU in 1997, but BU won the 1995 title when Chris Drury was a freshman. Tsiouxnami is correct. Quote
NDFlyer Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 In this type of competition the team you put out there needs more than just heart and a willingness to put out 100% every shift. The team also needs TALENT. Where are they going to get that? Quote
MafiaMan Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 UND did beat BU in 1997, but BU won the 1995 title when Chris Drury was a freshman. Tsiouxnami is correct. Of course, in correcting yourself, you are too, SiouxTupa. By the way, I concur on the self-evaluation of Hockey USA on both the women's and men's fronts. Let's start with the women. While a gold, silver, and bronze medal in three Olympiads are nothing to be ashamed of, it's clear that USA and Canada dominated the circuit in 1998 and 2002. Canada has continued its domination, some other teams have improved greatly (insert Sweden and Finland here), while others have regressed (obviously, USA). The men's program? Wow, where do we start? How about not throwing together a team and "hoping" they can put it all together on the ice. That logic is destined to fail. Herb Brooks must have rolled over in his grave yesterday after Mike Modano's comments. Oh how we have fallen when it is no longer a source or pride for athletes to don their country's crest on their jersey chest. The best thing Team USA could have done is pick a bunch of kids between the ages of 18 to about 28 and send them over there and wish them the best. Give them the experience to plow thru the field in 2010. Russia sends their Ovechkins and Kovalchuks and we counter by sending our Hatchers and Tkachuks? Chris Chelios has earned the right to say "it's time to find someone new" and turn down a spot on the team, but Tkachuk? Hatcher? Modano? That's the best we can do? Cmon...PCM and I could have picked a better roster this time around. Quote
Tsiouxnami Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 In this type of competition the team you put out there needs more than just heart and a willingness to put out 100% every shift. The team also needs TALENT. Where are they going to get that? I kind of disagree a bit here. I think the talent is there. . . . sure we aren't as talented as some of the other teams, but you know the saying "Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard." Just ask the Swiss. . . that is how they beat Canada. (Oh yeah, that and playing like a team.) While the US should be upset with their losses, Canada should feel worse. Look at the talent pool they had and they were shut out 3 games! YIKES! I believe I read they were shut out 12 of their last 13 periods of hockey. WOW! Quote
NDFlyer Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 Look at some of the best young Russkie players or Canuck players. Then, tell me which Americans come even close as far as talent? Quote
MafiaMan Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 I kind of disagree a bit here. I think the talent is there. . . . sure we aren't as talented as some of the other teams, but you know the saying "Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard." Just ask the Swiss. . . that is how they beat Canada. (Oh yeah, that and playing like a team.) While the US should be upset with their losses, Canada should feel worse. Look at the talent pool they had and they were shut out 3 games! YIKES! I believe I read they were shut out 12 of their last 13 periods of hockey. WOW! If you're playing college hockey for Minnesota, North Dakota, Boston U, Michigan, etc., you've obviously got some talent. I concur with Tsiouxnami on this one. Team USA needs people who WANT to be in the Olympics, not those who feel "well, since I'm one of the best players we have, I guess I should be there. Besides, I can get some free tickets for the family, some friends...". I agree on the stat about Canada being shut out in 12 of 13 periods of hockey. That's beyond comprehension with that team. Quote
NDFlyer Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 And if you are 18, 19 or 20 years old playing in the NHL and racking up a ton of points you have more talent than anyone in college hockey. I understand the obvious bias toward college hockey on this board, but, c'mon, get real here, fellas. Quote
MafiaMan Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 And if you are 18, 19 or 20 years old playing in the NHL and racking up a ton of points you have more talent than anyone in college hockey. I understand the obvious bias toward college hockey on this board, but, c'mon, get real here, fellas. I wasn't implying that the US needed to revert back to playing college kids! I was simply saying that it takes more than heart to play college hockey. If you've got a full-ride to Denver and are a two-time national champion, you've got more than just heart. What I'm saying is that there are talented young players all over the US who were left home so we could watch a team of mostly retreads and also rans attempt to medal. Think about it...1-4-1. We couldn't do much worse, could we? At least we beat a country that most people in North America couldn't spell. Woo hoo. Quote
NDFlyer Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 Had we more WCHA players (former or present) on this year's Olympic team would the results have been different? This IS what you guys are trying to say, right? If so, how do you know? Quote
NDFlyer Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 One more thing....we are NOT talking about winning the American college hockey title..we are talking about playing against and BEATING the best players in the world. A rather substantial difference between the two, wouldn't you say? Quote
MafiaMan Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 Had we more WCHA players (former or present) on this year's Olympic team would the results have been different? This IS what you guys are trying to say, right? If so, how do you know? Did I say anything at all about sending over the WCHA All-Stars? All I'm saying is that we're sending over 33-35 year old players while Russia has long-since looked to the future with stars like Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, and Ovechkin, who were playing in the 2004 WCOH in addition to this Olympiad. Evgeni Malkin, a 19 year old Penguins prospect, is playing for Team Russia. Meanwhile, where is Team USA's best hope for the future? A Zach Parise or a Paul Martin? Oh, they're taking a two week vacation... Quote
MafiaMan Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 One more thing....we are NOT talking about winning the American college hockey title..we are talking about playing against and BEATING the best players in the world. A rather substantial difference between the two, wouldn't you say? An obvious difference. You are totally missing my point. My point isn't to send over college kids...it's to send YOUNGER players! Tkachuk bombed at the 2004 WCOH and showed up to training camp with the nickname "Tka-chunk" and "Tka-chunky." And a few months later he's a US Olympian? We can do better! Quote
Tsiouxnami Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 I have never said that we should have a team of college players playing against a team of NHLer's. That is not the point I am trying to make at all. What we have been trying to say, or at least what I have been trying to say and I believe that MafiaMan has as well, and you keep overlooking, is that we need to take our MOST TALENTED YOUNG TEAM OF NHLer'S to the Olympics. Yes, we need some maturity and leadership with a couple of veterans, but I think (and I could be wrong) that a Zach Parise (he is playing in the NHL!) would have been a better player and played with more fire than Mike Modano. . . who was too busy pouting about having to make his own plane/hotel reservations. Quote
siouxtatoo42 Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 I think that Gionta and Leo played really well in the olympics, I was thinking how good they played but the rest of teams effort wasn't there. I think that USA needs to get some core guys together like the four mentioned above and have them play together in a World Championship a few times and dump some of the old weight. However, I do also fell that Chelios played pretty good during the olympics, what miffs me is why wasn't Brian Leach in the Olympic Games this year. I think it's cuz the cutoff age is 44, and for as long as leetch has been around, he could be 53 by now in all seriousness, USA hockey needs to get their stuff together, you don't beat European hockey with pretty boys and senior citizens, you beat european hockey with european hockey and hitting..oh, and you have to score goals too....team canada found that out this year too... Quote
NDFlyer Posted February 23, 2006 Posted February 23, 2006 Listen, there is nobody who despises the idea of sending NHL players to the Olympics more than I. Simon Gagne hurt his knee yesterday and if Peter Forsberg shreds either groin in the next few days I am going to be pi$$ed off mutha. The only way it could get worse is if Mike Knuble got drunk last night and cut his kneck on a broken beer bottle as the Chelios' Elimination Day Drunk Party or if Nittymaki blows a hammy during warmups. I totally agree that it would be more exciting if we sent college kids to the Olympics. We have Mr. NBA, Gary Buttman and the NHLPA to thank for it. My point is that the US is not churning out world class players on pace with some of the countries in this tournament. Quote
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