Sioux Name Poll on USCHO

[KnowtheFacts]

sorry PCM. My comments were out of place.

[PCM]

UND: Do you ever actually work at the job we are paying you for? Or do you just spend all day chatting online and furthering your own personal agendas?

Maybe you haven't noticed, but my agenda is the same as UND's leadership and the State Board of Higher Education. I'm sure UND would be aghast to learn that someone it pays to promote the university's agenda is actually doing it.

One thing I'm not doing is typing up pages and pages of documentation to send to the NCAA on UND letterhead with my signature and official title on them. It's strange that I've never seen you or G-Krack complain about that situation. But I imagine that when multilple UND employees aren't doing their jobs because they're promoting your personal agenda, you don't feel the need to make threats.

Anyhow, a plaque award whatever you are talking about is totally different that using a sterotyped image on a hockey jersey and the nickname "Fighting Sioux" across someone's behind on their sweatpants.

As usual, you completely missed the point.

My post addressed the curious concept of "honor" that you and G-Krack promote, which is that UND can somehow "honor" people by treating them as if they don't exist or as if they're undeserving of recognition they've earned.

I see you are of the thought that if the "Fighting Sioux" image and nick is removed then the Sioux people will fade into memory.

You're wrong. I am not of that thought.

No, only your stereotypical images and beliefs will fade.

What are my stereotypical images and beliefs? I'd really like to know.

Edited January 18, 2006 by PCM

[KnowtheFacts]

Maybe you haven't noticed, but my agenda is the same as UND's leadership and the State Board of Higher Education. I'm sure UND would be aghast to learn that someone it pays to promote the university's agenda is actually doing it.

One thing I'm not doing is typing up pages and pages of documentation to send to the NCAA on UND letterhead with my signature and official title on them. It's strange that I've never seen you or G-Krack complain about that situation. But I imagine that when multilple UND employees aren't doing their jobs because they're promoting your personal agenda, you don't feel the need to make threats.

As usual, you completely missed the point.

My post addressed the curious concept of "honor" that you and G-Krack promote, which is that UND can somehow "honor" people by treating them as if they don't exist or as if they're undeserving of recognition they've earned.

You're wrong. I am not of that thought.

What are my stereotypical images and beliefs? I'd really like to know.

I want to know why you think changing the logo is treating people like they dont exist. There arent any logos around "glorifying" black people? Does that mean that you treat them as if they did not exist? There arent any logos "honoring" the Japanese. The fought valiantly in war too and lost. I think these people groups get along just fine without logos in their "honor"

I think changing the logo is treating people like they DO exist and that someone actually read the resolutions that these tribes have put forward.

[siouxtatoo42]

why do illegal immigrants come to america? Opportunity despite the risk.

despite the risk of making a better life for themselves?? despite the risk of a higher education?? despite the risk of being able to show the ones who blame everything wrong with them on the government or the white man that there is a way, that there is opportunity to do better out there?? the risk of getting so damn educated, and getting ones people so damn educated, that the stereotypes that hold true today can be no longer?? or is it the risk of having to "tolerate" someone with different views than your own. happens every day to every one. the trick is to not be so f'ing thin skinned that anything that anyone says to you affects you so personally and so emotionally that you are unable to live a life worthy of yourself. If you are that thin skinned to take some assholes opinion of you and hold it in such high regard, then you are the weakest of the weak and don't deserve to voice your opinion to anyone because the odds of you even believing in the things you say you believe in aren't very good and nobody should take them seriously.

[KnowtheFacts]

why do illegal immigrants come to america? Opportunity despite the risk.

I thought it was a simple enough statement to stand on its own.

The opportunity of making a better life for themselves. The opportunity of a higher education. The opportunity of showing the white man that there is a way, that there is opportunity to do better out there. The opportunity of getting so damn educated, and getting ones people so damn educated, that the stereotypes that may or may not be true can be no longer.

The risk of having to "tolerate" someone who wants to "honor" them instead of actually "listening" to them. The risk of having to hear some assholes opinion of you daily. The risk of having to walk around campus and be harrassed by people wearing a "Fighting Sioux" logo on their shirt. The risk of being lectured about the logo daily - whether you have an opinion or not.

IN ADDITION. In light of Monday's holiday. I dont think it was being too thin skinned and weak for Blacks to stand up for their right to be treated equally. They had been biting their tongue long enough and you know what it took for someone to take them seriously? Keeping quiet about it didnt work. NO someone had to speak up so that their voices could be heard.

[The Sicatoka]

I want to know why you think changing the logo is treating people like they dont exist. There arent any logos around "glorifying" black people? Does that mean that you treat them as if they did not exist? There arent any logos "honoring" the Japanese. The fought valiantly in war too and lost. I think these people groups get along just fine without logos in their "honor"

I think changing the logo is treating people like they DO exist and that someone actually read the resolutions that these tribes have put forward.

The Irish were as oppressed as any group when they were new immigrants to this country.

Yet, there it is in South Bend, IN: Notre Dame's Fighting Irish.

[Sioux-cia]

I thought it was a simple enough statement to stand on its own.

There you go again, skirting around a direct question. There are other schools that provide opportunity without risk. If UND is so danged hostile and abusive, why come to school here? I know the answer. It's quite obvious from your answers that you don't.

[Diggler]

There you go again, skirting around a direct question. There are other schools that provide opportunity without risk. If UND is so danged hostile and abusive, why come to school here? I know the answer. It's quite obvious from your answers that you don't.

Weather that rivals that of South Beach?

[Sioux-cia]

IN ADDITION. In light of Monday's holiday. I dont think it was being too thin skinned and weak for Blacks to stand up for their right to be treated equally. They had been biting their tongue long enough and you know what it took for someone to take them seriously? Keeping quiet about it didnt work. NO someone had to speak up so that their voices could be heard.

Comparing Civil Rights to a name and logo?! You just don't get Da Pointe.

[redwing77]

So now the logo is denying the NA people the opportunity to succeed?

The Fighting Irish, by that logic, has long denied the Irish the opportunity to get out of the green color scheme, the love of shamrocks, and most importantly, the rep of being drunken brawlers because a silly cartoon leprachaun, as apart from a realistic portrayal by a Native American mind you, has his fists up ready to fight wearing all green and perhaps a shamrock on the hat?

Great logic.

Keep trying though. Still waiting for that reason, by the way.

[HockeyMom]

I think it all comes down to simply telling your children that they can be whatever they want in life, and no one should be able to hold them back. Also teach them that there is no use sitting around wallowing in self-pity because you think that someone wronged you......life's too short.

Or sitting on your butt bitching and moaning because you think someone owes you something.

That isn't how life works.

[KnowtheFacts]

Weather that rivals that of South Beach?

People say they live in ND because they like the seasons. Winter, winter, and fall.

Lets see. I know you've been out of the game for a while, but for the most part people are limited to in-state schools unless the school they are applying to is a private university or they are well-off. In-State tuition is incredibly lower that out-of-state tuition.

In addition, UND has many quality educational programs that the other ND schools don't have. Medicine, Law, Aerospace, Physical Therapy, Physician Assistant, Marketing, Human Resources, probably some specialized nursing programs... whatever. NDSU has their own specialties - Ag and Engineering are first two that come to mind.

Although your life may revolve around hockey and preserving the logo, other people make decisions of where they want to live based on many other factors. Obviously some are willing to live in a hostile environment in order to gain other opportunities provided by living here that may have nothing to do with the logo or UND for that matter.

[KnowtheFacts]

Comparing Civil Rights to a name and logo?! You just don't get Da Pointe.

Should I use another example like say Japanese internment camps. Some Japanese did keep silent - and how did that help the situation? You have to speak up to get things to change.

Keeping silent or moving away doesnt solve anything.

[HockeyMom]

Obviously some are willing to live in a hostile environment

You made me laugh so hard I spit water everywhere when I read that.

[Sioux-cia]

In addition, UND has many quality educational programs that the other ND schools don't have. Medicine, Law, Aerospace, Physical Therapy, Physician Assistant, Marketing, Human Resources, probably some specialized nursing programs... whatever. NDSU has their own specialties - Ag and Engineering are first two that come to mind.

Although your life may revolve around hockey and preserving the logo, other people make decisions of where they want to live based on many other factors. Obviously some are willing to live in a hostile environment in order to gain other opportunities provided by living here that may have nothing to do with the logo or UND for that matter.

You forgot to mention all the American Indian specific programs that the hostile and abusive University of North Dakota offers. American Indians come to this University because of the opportunities that are here for them specifically because they are American Indians. Opportunities that are not available to them at other Universities.

There you go again with the insults when you can't win any of Da Pointes presented. The universtiy is a part of my life, the name and logo are important to me. And yes, I've been out of school a long time.

My children are adults and lucky for me, I have time to spend on this issue. In fact, I enjoy dueling with you and GK on the issue. It's always fun to win. If I were a full time student, with two young sons at home, and a 'hate society' husband to contend with, I probably wouldn't be as passionate about the issue.

[Sioux-cia]

Should I use another example like say Japanese internment camps. Some Japanese did keep silent - and how did that help the situation? You have to speak up to get things to change.

Keeping silent or moving away doesnt solve anything.

A name and logo compared to Japanese internment camps. Geeze, what next the Holocoust?

[Flatland]

In order to make these comparisons, you have to tell us how a logo is keeping you from getting a job, preventing achievement, etc. Last I checked, I didn't think that native american's are being locked up anywhere.

[SiouxPride0303]

In order to make these comparisons, you have to tell us how a logo is keeping you from getting a job, preventing achievement, etc. Last I checked, I didn't think that native american's are being locked up anywhere.

Yes...I would like enlightenment on this specific question as well.

I'm certain it won't be answered though.

[PCM]

On the contrary, I'm pretty sure that if the name ever goes away it could create a lot of hostility towards American Indians on campus where they had been very little or none before.

I think you're wrong about that. But even if you're right, the idea that we should keep the Fighting Sioux nickname to prevent a few morons from acting on their racist tendencies plays right into the hands of the NCAA and those who want to change the name.