Sioux Name Change

[KnowtheFacts]

Perhaps you can provide a link to a resolution passed by the Spirit Lake tribal council that overturns the December 2000 resolution.

Perhaps you can provide the link to your imaginary resolution.

The one that UND cited and the link I provided is the one that UND is using in their appeal. The link is from UND's website.

Some reporter you are. You just make up your information if you dont like the real stuff.

go back and read the article YOU wrote.

http://www.uscho.com/news/id,11102/NorthDa...NCAAAppeal.html

[Sioux-cia]

Perhaps you can provide the link to your imaginary resolution.

The one that UND cited and the link I provided is the one that UND is using in their appeal. The link is from UND's website.

Some reporter you are. You just make up your information if you dont like the real stuff.

go back and read the article YOU wrote.

http://www.uscho.com/news/id,11102/NorthDa...NCAAAppeal.html

The appeal claims that UND has the approval of the Spirit Lake Nation to use the Sioux name, which was granted in a resolution passed by the tribal council in December 2000. That support has not been withdrawn, Harmeson said.

Quote is from the article YOU wrote PCM. Apparently, it's not clear to some folk. I notice that she has not provided a link to any resolution that overturns the 2000 resolution. Why, because the 2000 resolution from Spirit Lake has NOT be dissolved. Therefore, it stands. Doesn't matter what spin the Name Changers put on the resolution, it is still in place.

She's attacking the reporter now. As Redwing77 pointed out, when children and those who are poorly equipped to fight the fight are losing, they revert to name calling.

[HockeyMom]

Both sides of this issue can talk until they are blue in the face, it's obvious that neither side is going to get the other side to switch their views.

I say let the courts decided the issue.

[cujo]

So basically, UND's nickname was the "Flickertails" then they changed name their name to the "Sioux" without the consent of the Sioux Nations of North and South Dakota. Then UND got rid of "Sammy the Sioux" and changed their name to the "Fighting Sioux"--allegedly without consent of the the Sioux Nations.

UND has had 3 new presidents in the last 30 some years. All 3 new presidents have endured the controversy to change the name of UND athletic teams. And essentially they "swept in under the rug" with the exception of Kupchella--due to the age of political correctness and sensitivity to other ethnic cultures. Also, the other UND presidents had to face many racial slurs and activities geared towards Indians/Native Americans. Seems to me, said presidents did nothing to stop or curtail the racist acitvities on campus toward the Indian/Native American culture.

In Sept. of 2000, the Spirit Lake council has not taken an official stance on the use of the "Fighting Sioux" name as long as something "positive" comes from the controversy. Also, the Spirit Lake requests a "Zero Tolerance" policy regarding Indian/Native American racial acitivities and an increased emphasis on the awareness of the Sioux culture----even though Native American students have been subject to alleged racist comments and writings throughout the UND campus.

I was told ( and could be wrong) that all in-coming students to UND had to take a certain number of classes/credits regarding the Sioux culture/history prior to being granted their degree, and that UND has not been enforcing this.

Also, I have heard over the last 6 months that relations between the Indian/Native American cultures and the rest of the community have gradually become worse and worse.

[Air Force One]

Also, I have heard over the last 6 months that relations between the Indian/Native American cultures and the rest of the community have gradually become worse and worse.

So bad that the Turtle Mountain tribe are practically begging the City Council to let them build a casino in town, you know, this seething pit of racism.

[cujo]

So bad that the Turtle Mountain tribe are practically begging the City Council to let them build a casino in town, you know, this seething pit of racism.

Such a seething pit that my wife and siblings were subject to racial and Jewish slurs while growing up in ND--they were Jewish

Also, a post regarding the "Perfect Moniker" that has claims of: cement shoes, pin-strips suits and fedora hats, sleeping with the fishes, an offer he couldn't refuse, Luca Brazi--well I interpret this as slanderous accusations that all Italians are in the Mafia and funnier yet I am of Italian descent and so are my children

And, the post of "this won't help" essentially depicts NativeAmericans/indians as drunken, lazy, welfare collecting, free-cheese eating, whiney people.

So, as an outsider, how can I NOT come to the conclusion that their is NOT "seething pit of racism"

[7>4]

Also, I have heard over the last 6 months that relations between the Indian/Native American cultures and the rest of the community have gradually become worse and worse.

Heard from who? Kracker? Give some concrete examples on how relations have gotten worse. I lived in Grand Forks for over 20 years and attended the University and I can't think of one instance of any overt act of racism against American Indians.

The whole argument about changing the name because it degrades Indians would be a lot more powerful if you have a few fact based examples to back it up. And please, don't go back and cite the T-shirt that some A-holes from Fargo wore back in the 70's.

[cujo]

Heard from who? Kracker? Give some concrete examples on how relations have gotten worse. I lived in Grand Forks for over 20 years and attended the University and I can't think of one instance of any overt act of racism against American Indians.

The whole argument about changing the name because it degrades Indians would be a lot more powerful if you have a few fact based examples to back it up. And please, don't go back and cite the T-shirt that some A-holes from Fargo wore back in the 70's.

I don't have any concrete examples per se, but it is just an opionon of a major Sioux booster who travels to all of the hockey and football games. This individual stated that the majority of the Sioux fans at home games wear the Sioux jerseys that depict the Native American/Indian logo, wheras 4-6 years ago most fans just wore their everyday clothing in attedance of the Sioux games.

[Sioux-cia]

Such a seething pit that my wife and siblings were subject to racial and Jewish slurs while growing up in ND--they were Jewish

Also, a post regarding the "Perfect Moniker" that has claims of: cement shoes, pin-strips suits and fedora hats, sleeping with the fishes, an offer he couldn't refuse, Luca Brazi--well I interpret this as slanderous accusations that all Italians are in the Mafia and funnier yet I am of Italian descent and so are my children

And, the post of "this won't help" essentially depicts NativeAmericans/indians as drunken, lazy, welfare collecting, free-cheese eating, whiney people.

So, as an outsider, how can I NOT come to the conclusion that their is NOT "seething pit of racism"

1. Racism is not central to any part of the world. Unfortunately, racists live every where. Jews, Catholics, Muslisms, etc. have and continue to be subjected to racial slurs EVERYWHERE. A university's athletic nickname and logo are not the cause.

Racist remarks come from all ethnic/racial/cultural people. Go back and read some of GKs famous remarks about the Chippewa, Indians who do not agree with him, Mexican Americans and Caucasions. Being Indian doesn't make his remarks and beliefs any less racist than if they were made by a non Indian.

2. Do you not recognize satire when you read it without someone having to point it out to you?

"satire, sa-tire, noun, 1. A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit. 2. Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice or stupidity."

3. That tee shirt was pulled from ebay as a result of complaints from members of SiouxSports.com who are pro Sioux name and logo. There were THREE bids on the t-shirt before they were pulled. AND ONE OF THOSE BIDDERS WAS A LAKOTA SIOUX. Three bids from tens of thousands of ebay members.

Read KnowtheFacts recent post. She's the one that is perpetuating the view of the Indian as lazy, welfare collecting, free cheese eating, whiney people. According to her the reason the American Indian can't hope for a better life is they don't get enough government aid! This type of posting from someone who is a Name Change proponent, diminishes the Indian people. What group of people, ethnic/cultural/racial, wants to go on record as saying, "I can't make my life situation better because I don't get enough government welfare?"

[Sioux-cia]

I don't have any concrete examples per se, but it is just an opionon of a major Sioux booster who travels to all of the hockey and football games. This individual stated that the majority of the Sioux fans at home games wear the Sioux jerseys that depict the Native American/Indian logo, wheras 4-6 years ago most fans just wore their everyday clothing in attedance of the Sioux games.

I've been a Sioux booster for over twenty five years. I have worn a Sioux t-shirt/sweat shirt/jersey (as my economic situation improved so did what I wore to the games)to every game I have ever attended as have those fans who sat all around me and through out the arena.

But so what! How is wearing a Sioux garb with the Sioux name and logo racist? We're fan's, we're supporting our athletes and, like fans throughout the world, we wear our sports teams name and logo. I am proud of the accomplishments of our athletes and show that pride by wearing my Sioux gear. I've been a Chicago Bears fan since I was old enough to know who they were. I'm proud of the Chicago Bears and show that pride by wearing my Chicago Bears jersey. I know that when I hear crap about Chicago and/or the Chicago Bears the person is not attacking me. I've had to put up with a lot of smack because of it but hey, that's what rivalries are all about.

[PCM]

Some reporter you are. You just make up your information if you dont like the real stuff.

[KnowtheFacts]

Quote is from the article YOU wrote PCM. Apparently, it's not clear to some folk. I notice that she has not provided a link to any resolution that overturns the 2000 resolution. Why, because the 2000 resolution from Spirit Lake has NOT be dissolved. Therefore, it stands. Doesn't matter what spin the Name Changers put on the resolution, it is still in place.

She's attacking the reporter now. As Redwing77 pointed out, when children and those who are poorly equipped to fight the fight are losing, they revert to name calling.

I dare you to find the word "support" in that resolution. It simply is not there. the wording says "as long as something positive comes from this controversy, they are not opposed...."

Has anyone here actually read the resolution?

[crosby_87]

I don't have any concrete examples per se, but it is just an opionon of a major Sioux booster who travels to all of the hockey and football games. This individual stated that the majority of the Sioux fans at home games wear the Sioux jerseys that depict the Native American/Indian logo, wheras 4-6 years ago most fans just wore their everyday clothing in attedance of the Sioux games.

I don't see anything wrong with wearing a jersey to a game. Most people do. If that's depicted as racism, then that's just sad if you ask me. Remember that right around the "4-6 years ago", UND got their brand new jerseys and everyone loved them because of the awesome logo. Almost everybody I know personally has a Sioux jersey, and it is because they love their school and what it stands for. None of them spent up to $100 on the jersey just to be "racist" or "hostile" or "abusive" towards anybody. Just think about it for a second. If you have ever gone to a pro hockey or football game, you will see that about 3/4 of the people have their home team's jerseys on. I honestly don't see the problem with this.

[Sioux-cia]

Perhaps you can provide the link to your imaginary resolution.

Your right the resolution does not use the word support; they state they are not opposed to the use of the name. There's no reason to post all the positives I see that come from the use of the name because you don't now and will never agree that there is anything positive in it's use. Now please post the link to "your imaginary resolution" disolving the 2000 Spirit Lake resolution.

[dagies]

I don't see anything wrong with wearing a jersey to a game. Most people do. If that's depicted as racism, then that's just sad if you ask me.

I don't think it's racism either. I think it's one of these: commercialism, fanism, funism, UNDism....

[The Sicatoka]

Also, a post regarding the "Perfect Moniker" that has claims of: cement shoes, pin-strips suits and fedora hats, sleeping with the fishes, an offer he couldn't refuse, Luca Brazi--well I interpret this as slanderous accusations that all Italians are in the Mafia and funnier yet I am of Italian descent and so are my children

Someone needs to look up the really big word "jocularity".

But you did catch on the key to this whole issue: " ... I interpret ... "

Yeah, that's how you interpret it. Others interpret it as intended: jocularity.

Here's where "PC" has killed the world: It's not what you say, but how others may have interpretted what they thought you might have said.