cujo Posted December 24, 2005 Share Posted December 24, 2005 First of all, I posted a similar thread on the KFAN board earilier today and have 0 responses. So I thought posting on this board I could get some intellectual input from everyone. Here is my timeline of events and correct me if I am wrong, In August the NCAA came out and said all college teams imploring Indian/Native American nicknames/mascots were not to use said name/mascot during post-season play. Florida State & Utah appealed said ruling and subsequently won. UND appealed and lost because the 5 Sioux nations in ND did not support UND using the Sioux name. I also read a post that said in the 30's, a few years after the Sioux technically became US citizens, UND was given permission by the 5 Nations to use the "Fighting Sioux" name. So the bigger question is, has UND's use of the "Fighting Sioux" been an on-going issue in ND? or did the NCAA make the issue? I appreciate your response, BTW, Happy Holidays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted December 24, 2005 Share Posted December 24, 2005 First of all, I posted a similar thread on the KFAN board earilier today and have 0 responses. So I thought posting on this board I could get some intellectual input from everyone. Here is my timeline of events and correct me if I am wrong, In August the NCAA came out and said all college teams imploring Indian/Native American nicknames/mascots were not to use said name/mascot during post-season play. Florida State & Utah appealed said ruling and subsequently won. UND appealed and lost because the 5 Sioux nations in ND did not support UND using the Sioux name. I also read a post that said in the 30's, a few years after the Sioux technically became US citizens, UND was given permission by the 5 Nations to use the "Fighting Sioux" name. So the bigger question is, has UND's use of the "Fighting Sioux" been an on-going issue in ND? or did the NCAA make the issue? I appreciate your response, BTW, Happy Holidays http://www.UND.nodak.edu/org/bridges/ncaa_survey.html Generally speaking, controversy has flared at the beginnings of the terms of each of the past three presidents (see below, response to question 5). Since 1992, the Fighting Sioux team name and logo issue has been constantly on the agenda, kept alive because of the University's stated willingness to discuss the issue, the existence of organizations and individuals taking strong positions on either side, and the occurrence (or allegation) of occasional acts of racism toward American Indians in the community. The use of American Indian imagery in sports programs is, of course, a national issue. UND is far from being the only university with an Indian-related team name, but it has received unusual national attention recently because of media interest in the circumstances surrounding a $100 million gift to UND to build a new ice hockey arena. The donor, a former college hockey player himself, has been an advocate of the continued use of the Fighting Sioux team name. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Happy Kwansi and GOD BLESS THE FIGHTING SIOUX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cujo Posted December 25, 2005 Author Share Posted December 25, 2005 http://www.UND.nodak.edu/org/bridges/ncaa_survey.html Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Happy Kwansi and GOD BLESS THE FIGHTING SIOUX. Thanks man, I will check out the website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Thanks man, I will check out the website I'm a WOman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 I'm a WOman. I heard her roar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowtheFacts Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 First of all, I posted a similar thread on the KFAN board earilier today and have 0 responses. So I thought posting on this board I could get some intellectual input from everyone. Here is my timeline of events and correct me if I am wrong, In August the NCAA came out and said all college teams imploring Indian/Native American nicknames/mascots were not to use said name/mascot during post-season play. Florida State & Utah appealed said ruling and subsequently won. UND appealed and lost because the 5 Sioux nations in ND did not support UND using the Sioux name. I also read a post that said in the 30's, a few years after the Sioux technically became US citizens, UND was given permission by the 5 Nations to use the "Fighting Sioux" name. So the bigger question is, has UND's use of the "Fighting Sioux" been an on-going issue in ND? or did the NCAA make the issue? I appreciate your response, BTW, Happy Holidays If you go the the NCAA website there is a detailed explanation of why UND lost its appeal. Besides the 3 Sioux nations in North Dakota, There are also many more Sioux tribes in South Dakota that have official resolutions in place objecting to the nickname. The NCAA statement also states that the 5 United Tribes of North Dakota (which includes the 3 Sioux tribes in ND) issued a resolution in favor of changing the nickname. UND was not given permission in the 30's by anyone to use the "Sioux" name. I would question the information you have because "Fighting" was not added until much later. I havent found out exactly when yet, but it was not until after the elimination of the "Sammy Sioux" nickname/logo. As far as people commenting on permission. I heard that a group of elders came up at some point and gave their blessing/permission whatever, but it was not given by a tribal leadership/government entity. I looked at the Dakota Student newspapers from the fifties when it supposedly took place, but I couldn't find anything about it. I didn't find much info in the Herald archives, but if you go to the Special Collections in the Chester Fritz Library, there is lots to be found in the Dakota Student Microfiches. I did manage to print out the ones related to the changing of the nickname from Nodaks/Flickertails to Sioux if you are interested. It was September of 1930 that the name change took place, just in time for Homecoming to be portrayed as a Pow-Wow, the Homecoming King to become a "Chief", and the freshman to be referred to as Papooses... Your final questions answer is that this has been an ongoing issue at UND since the name was changed to "Sioux". However, most of the information related to actual protesters and people for changing the name begins about the same time that Native American Students first started attending the school, which was in the 60's I believe. good luck in your quest for factual information. If you manage to find some solid documentation of the "elder permission" thing, could you let me know? I would like to know what actually happened, by who and when. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
und52 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 If you go the the NCAA website there is a detailed explanation of why UND lost its appeal. Besides the 3 Sioux nations in North Dakota, There are also many more Sioux tribes in South Dakota that have official resolutions in place objecting to the nickname. The NCAA statement also states that the 5 United Tribes of North Dakota (which includes the 3 Sioux tribes in ND) issued a resolution in favor of changing the nickname. UND was not given permission in the 30's by anyone to use the "Sioux" name. I would question the information you have because "Fighting" was not added until much later. I havent found out exactly when yet, but it was not until after the elimination of the "Sammy Sioux" nickname/logo. As far as people commenting on permission. I heard that a group of elders came up at some point and gave their blessing/permission whatever, but it was not given by a tribal leadership/government entity. I looked at the Dakota Student newspapers from the fifties when it supposedly took place, but I couldn't find anything about it. I didn't find much info in the Herald archives, but if you go to the Special Collections in the Chester Fritz Library, there is lots to be found in the Dakota Student Microfiches. I did manage to print out the ones related to the changing of the nickname from Nodaks/Flickertails to Sioux if you are interested. It was September of 1930 that the name change took place, just in time for Homecoming to be portrayed as a Pow-Wow, the Homecoming King to become a "Chief", and the freshman to be referred to as Papooses... Your final questions answer is that this has been an ongoing issue at UND since the name was changed to "Sioux". However, most of the information related to actual protesters and people for changing the name begins about the same time that Native American Students first started attending the school, which was in the 60's I believe. good luck in your quest for factual information. If you manage to find some solid documentation of the "elder permission" thing, could you let me know? I would like to know what actually happened, by who and when. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mako Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Great review KnowtheFacts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Besides the 3 Sioux nations in North Dakota... Correction. As of right now, one of three Sioux tribes in North Dakota is officially on record as supporting UND's use of the Fighting Sioux nickname. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mako Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Correction. As of right now, one of three Sioux tribes in North Dakota is officially on record as supporting UND's use of the Fighting Sioux nickname. can you please state which tribe?when?where?which leaders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 can you please state which tribe?when?where?which leaders? Spirit Lake Nation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFSIOUX#1 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 If you go the the NCAA website there is a detailed explanation of why UND lost its appeal. Besides the 3 Sioux nations in North Dakota, There are also many more Sioux tribes in South Dakota that have official resolutions in place objecting to the nickname. The NCAA statement also states that the 5 United Tribes of North Dakota (which includes the 3 Sioux tribes in ND) issued a resolution in favor of changing the nickname. UND was not given permission in the 30's by anyone to use the "Sioux" name. I would question the information you have because "Fighting" was not added until much later. I havent found out exactly when yet, but it was not until after the elimination of the "Sammy Sioux" nickname/logo. As far as people commenting on permission. I heard that a group of elders came up at some point and gave their blessing/permission whatever, but it was not given by a tribal leadership/government entity. I looked at the Dakota Student newspapers from the fifties when it supposedly took place, but I couldn't find anything about it. I didn't find much info in the Herald archives, but if you go to the Special Collections in the Chester Fritz Library, there is lots to be found in the Dakota Student Microfiches. I did manage to print out the ones related to the changing of the nickname from Nodaks/Flickertails to Sioux if you are interested. It was September of 1930 that the name change took place, just in time for Homecoming to be portrayed as a Pow-Wow, the Homecoming King to become a "Chief", and the freshman to be referred to as Papooses... Your final questions answer is that this has been an ongoing issue at UND since the name was changed to "Sioux". However, most of the information related to actual protesters and people for changing the name begins about the same time that Native American Students first started attending the school, which was in the 60's I believe. good luck in your quest for factual information. If you manage to find some solid documentation of the "elder permission" thing, could you let me know? I would like to know what actually happened, by who and when. thanks. BLAH BLAH BLAH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmrg74 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Spirit Lake Nation Have they offically came out with a press release and stated they would like UND to keep the Sioux name and that the NCAA should go BLANKITY-BLANK-BLANKING-BLINKED BLANK itself?? I would think an announcement like that would be pretty big news around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iramurphy Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Have they offically came out with a press release and stated they would like UND to keep the Sioux name and that the NCAA should go BLANKITY-BLANK-BLANKING-BLINKED BLANK itself?? I would think an announcement like that would be pretty big news around here. I believe the poster refers to the fact that the last "official stance" was support of the name (with recommendations). Recently they took an informal stance against the use of the name then never did finish the formal process to oppose it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowtheFacts Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Correction. As of right now, one of three Sioux tribes in North Dakota is officially on record as supporting UND's use of the Fighting Sioux nickname. Correction. As of right now, one of the three Sioux tribes in North Dakota is officially on record as not opposing UND's use of the Fighting Sioux nickname under certain conditions that apparently have not been met. http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/12519481.htm http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/12758900.htm this last one is the actual text of the document/resolution. http://www.universityrelations.UND.edu/log...on%20_large.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Correction. As of right now, one of the three Sioux tribes in North Dakota is officially on record as not opposing UND's use of the Fighting Sioux nickname under certain conditions that apparently have not been met. Spin it however you want, but the last official act by the Spirit Lake tribal council was in support of UND's use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mako Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Spin it however you want, but the last official act by the Spirit Lake tribal council was in support of UND's use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. What spin? The Spirit Lake Nation voted against UND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Force One Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 What spin? The Spirit Lake Nation voted against UND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Why are you ignoring the facts? I'm not. You are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jloos Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 80+% of American Indians support the name. 80+% of whiney white far left liberals oppose the name. I would guess 99% of everyone else either supports the name or doesn't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 What spin? The Spirit Lake Nation voted against UND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowtheFacts Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Spin it however you want, but the last official act by the Spirit Lake tribal council was in support of UND's use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. I dont have to spin it, the wording is right out of the resolution itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mako Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 The 2000 Spirit Lake Nation resolution was replaced by the September 9th 2005 resolution calling for the immediate name change. Their position may have been hazy in 2000, but on September 9th 2005 it was crystal clear. Wrong again. The entire Spirit Lake tribal council has not voted to rescind or replace its December 2000 resolution. Until it does so, that remains the last official position of the council. The September 2005 vote of the United Tribes of North Dakota does not overturn that resolution. Spirit Lake tribal council members have had plenty of time and plenty of opportunities to officially and formally change the tribe's position. They have not done so. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 I dont have to spin it, the wording is right out of the resolution itself. Perhaps you can provide a link to a resolution passed by the Spirit Lake tribal council that overturns the December 2000 resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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