Red River Football

[OldSchool]

This just in there will be no homecoming football game at Red River High School this year. Instead as I like to call it PC High will have a homecoming volleyball game. I wonder when the administration will have homecoming spafest or homecoming bandfest. God if that is the biggest group of soft administrators in the United States I don't know where else it would be. I also don't know where else in the US there would be no homecoming football game for a high school. Unbelievable.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

There is no football homecoming because it is sexist. I hear RR is going to drop the Roughrider name due to a brand of condom being named the same and the associated immorality issues. Actually, I have never heard of this before either. Pretty sad.

[Brent_Bobyck]

This just in there will be no homecoming football game at Red River High School this year.

[coachdags]

Homecoming back on at Red River.....After alot of complaints...rethinking???....somehow,we will have a Redriver Homecoming Football....Look for Ryan Bakken article in hearld ..coming in a upcoming Edition

[OldSchool]

They will probably try to fire the coach now because the volleyball parents will start a petition and the administration will have to bring good old coach Muir in and have a talk with him because he got his parents to call and complain which in turn up set the other side

[Mr. Blanston]

How about this for a thought: Homecoming will still be a football game, but the volleyball girls play instead of the RR football team. It would keep everyone happy and, let's face it, they probably would do the same if not better than the boys. What were they, 0-9 last year?

[WWPKD]

How about this for a thought: Homecoming will still be a football game, but the volleyball girls play instead of the RR football team. It would keep everyone happy and, let's face it, they probably would do the same if not better than the boys. What were they, 0-9 last year?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yea i dont remember the last time RR football won a game. Drew Thomas took the program with him when he left.

[ESPNInsider]

yea i dont remember the last time RR football won a game. Drew Thomas took the program with him when he left.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think everyone involved with the program was relieved when Dorothy, oops I mean Drew, left the program.

[ESPNInsider]

Looks like it was the scheduling that was the problem. Ryan Bakken has this article telling about it. That is a problem with so few games in the season.

[UND92,96]

So why is it that Red River football has gotten so bad? I suppose it's easy to say that too many kids concentrate solely on hockey, but I don't buy that as being the primary reason. Nick Cichy had some excellent teams in the 80's, and I don't think those teams had many players who also played hockey. I know the 1987 state runner-up team had very few hockey players on it, and I suspect it was the same with the 1982 state runner-up team. Clearly it's not just a problem with Grand Forks in general, either. Even with far fewer base kids than there used to be, Central is doing quite well lately, and will probably be one of the top two or three teams in the state again this year, and of course EGF is coming off a state title and looks solid again.

[ESPNInsider]

So why is it that Red River football has gotten so bad? I suppose it's easy to say that too many kids concentrate solely on hockey, but I don't buy that as being the primary reason. Nick Cichy had some excellent teams in the 80's, and I don't think those teams had many players who also played hockey. I know the 1987 state runner-up team had very few hockey players on it, and I suspect it was the same with the 1982 state runner-up team. Clearly it's not just a problem with Grand Forks in general, either. Even with far fewer base kids than there used to be, Central is doing quite well lately, and will probably be one of the top two or three teams in the state again this year, and of course EGF is coming off a state title and looks solid again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The hockey reasoning is actually a strong one. Many of the top athletes from RR have been hockey players and hockey players only. There have been a number of kids who played football for a year or two then stopped playing, either to leave RR for hockey or to play only hockey.

Also Central's tradition and coaching staff (25+ years together) helps them get kids out.

[OldSchool]

The hockey argument is very solid, and that is the main reason at Red River...Look at Central all of their athletes play football. Bottom line you can't make chicken soup out of chicken s**t. The athletes aren't playing, and it is going to take a class of kids to decide that they are going to do something about the problem. Hopefully one of these years all the athletes will get together and say hey lets turn this thing around.

Every athlete at EGF was out for football as well last year. Red River just does not get the kids out.

[UND92,96]

I could understand not going out for football if a kid has legitimate dI hockey ability and could be jeopardizing a scholarship by getting injured, but truth be told, there are very, very few kids who have that kind of hockey future. If Jake Marto can play football, I don't understand why some kid at RR who will be lucky to even make a USHL team after high school can't do the same.

Even if you just have all the best non-hockey-playing athletes, RR should still be able to put together a competitive team. As mentioned earlier, some of the 80's Cichy teams were quite good with minimal contributions from hockey players.

Losing becomes a vicious cycle. Red River has had a couple of terrible teams, which turns off the middle school kids, and they don't go out once they get to high school because they presumably don't want to be associated with a losing program. I'm an ex-Central player, but I do hope Muir can get the program straightened out because it's embarassing to have a school the size of RR be one of the worst AAA football programs in the state.

[ESPNInsider]

Like I said, it goes then to tradition and stability. Central's coaches have been together for 25+ years and kids are coming through who know the coaches and know the tradition. RR has been through multiple coaches and different schemes and that makes it much harder to build a tradition and a winning program.

It's not just the hockey players who don't play football. Many of the top athletes just don't play football. These kids are playing basketball, hockey, tennis, whatever sport it is on a year round basis. That may be the difference between RR and Central. I don't want to get into the whole money thing, but a lot of the athletes from RR are the ones that play golf at the country club and tennis year around at Center Court. If you look at the Golf and Tennis teams that is why RR is dominant and Central is not. However, I think that if Vern can get a couple of winning seasons under his belt and in front of the kids that it will help spur a few good classes out of the youngsters.

Another down side is the parents at RR. The parents think they have too much say with these coaches. Mike Berg couldn't believe what RR coaches put up with with these parents. They just call the coaching office or the coaches house and say what they think is wrong and what needs to change. Berg said he just doesn't have to deal with that. That is really a branch off of the coaching changes that RR has gone through, but it's also a reason the changes have happened. Remember Kerry Jaeger? The guy won multiple state championships and the parents revolted against him saying that he was playing the wrong people. Remember Paul Peterson? He was working hard to turn the football program around when the parents, led by someone we've talked about quite a bit on this site, and his wife, ran him out. I mean they tried to run off Bart Manson. The guy turned around a program that was down and had some great teams. Sure, they didn't make the State tourney for a few years, but that doesn't happen over night. Now RR is predominantly one of the better teams in the East. Well, my kids not playing and he is the next LeBron James, better call Bart. The parents just feel that they need to control everything. Let your kid take his lumps and maybe not play as a freshman, even though you think he is God's gift to the Earth. Every parent thinks their child is the best, some just realize that the coach knows what he's doing.

Peace and hairgrease

[legend334]

Like I said, it goes then to tradition and stability.  Central's coaches have been together for 25+ years and kids are coming through who know the coaches and know the tradition.  RR has been through multiple coaches and different schemes and that makes it much harder to build a tradition and a winning program. 

It's not just the hockey players who don't play football.  Many of the top athletes just don't play football.  These kids are playing basketball, hockey, tennis, whatever sport it is on a year round basis.  That may be the difference between RR and Central.  I don't want to get into the whole money thing, but a lot of the athletes from RR are the ones that play golf at the country club and tennis year around at Center Court.  If you look at the Golf and Tennis teams that is why RR is dominant and Central is not.  However, I think that if Vern can get a couple of winning seasons under his belt and in front of the kids that it will help spur a few good classes out of the youngsters. 

Another down side is the parents at RR.  The parents think they have too much say with these coaches.  Mike Berg couldn't believe what RR coaches put up with with these parents.  They just call the coaching office or the coaches house and say what they think is wrong and what needs to change.  Berg said he just doesn't have to deal with that.  That is really a branch off of the coaching changes that RR has gone through, but it's also a reason the changes have happened.  Remember Kerry Jaeger?  The guy won multiple state championships and the parents revolted against him saying that he was playing the wrong people.  Remember Paul Peterson?  He was working hard to turn the football program around when the parents, led by someone we've talked about quite a bit on this site, and his wife, ran him out.  I mean they tried to run off Bart Manson.  The guy turned around a program that was down and had some great teams.  Sure, they didn't make the State tourney for a few years, but that doesn't happen over night.  Now RR is predominantly one of the better teams in the East.  Well, my kids not playing and he is the next LeBron James, better call Bart.  The parents just feel that they need to control everything.  Let your kid take his lumps and maybe not play as a freshman, even though you think he is God's gift to the Earth.  Every parent thinks their child is the best, some just realize that the coach knows what he's doing.

Peace and hairgrease

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

gotta love those RR parents...in fact werent they trying to get Bart out of BB as well?? his dad is a coaching legend and Bart has been around hoops his whole life!!! Hard to imagine someone better suited for the job...it comes to a point and time for those coaches to set up a meeting with the parents....set them down and tell them look....i may not know everything...i may not know anything but if your kid is on my team...my way is the way its going to be....the problem with the kids at RR is the parents tell them how they should be playing.....and as a kid....who will you listen to?? your parent or the coach...that is a no brainer....and the minute a coach loses that respect and ability to lead...its all over...cuz those kids will doubt everything he says...because their parents called him or her a idiot and they dont know what their doing....just MO...take it for what its worth!!

[ESPNInsider]

Legend, again I think that goes back to the changes. People aren't going to do that to Mike Berg, because he's been there for almost 30 years(?) and has a proven track record. If RR can get some stability going it would do wonders for the program.

[GoPackers]

Coaching would also be much easier if adminstration would stand up to some of the parents that try to take over programs.

[OldSchool]

That's a big Yes....their isn't much or should I say any backbone in the administration over their, and absolutely no pride from them either. Seems all are either looking to further their career and this is a stepping stone, or they are on their way out.

[ESPNInsider]

Yeah, it seems like in the past Perry was always a Central kind of guy. He would lean to Central whenever possible. Hopefully Todd won't do the same. It would be nice to see them stand behind RR for a change.

I disagree with Old School though, I don't think Todd is looking to go elsewhere. I think that Perry was though, if that's what you were implying.

But ultimately you need to look at the parents and tell them to get a clue. It starts at the beginning in youth athletics. Too many dads coaching teams thinking they know what is going on when they really have no idea. I've been wanting local coaches to do workshops for youth coaches for a long time. Look at local baseball. The coaches at every level are split. High school coaches don't agree with legion coaches, babe ruth coaches don't agree with legion coaches. It just goes on and on and no one is on the same page. It is the same with football and basketball. You have these young teams (5th and 6th grade kids) thinking that their dad must be pretty smart at basketball since he runs my team. Then when I get up to high school and my coach tells me something different I go ask my dad if that is right. If the local coaches would put on some clinics (Central does this once in a while, maybe every year for football) for the young coaches and they would attend it would help blend the relationships and maybe teach these parents a thing or two. With basketball it is a little different, but with the youth football and baseball they could make it mandatory to attend.

Then they need to just tell parents that you have the opportunity to apply for coaching positions as they come available. You can also approach the head coach to inquire about openins on the staff. That way if they are so smart about the sport we will be able to use their smarts for the good of the program.

Working with basketball as an official I've also noticed how many parents are professional refs too. It's just sick. It's to the point that many kids say they wish that their parents just wouldn't come to the game. There was actually quite a bit of discussion on relatively the same subject on ESPN.COM yesterday. About parents over-coaching their kids.

In closing, I'm not a parent, but those of you who are, please either let the coach coach and the ref ref, or go learn more about the sport and coach the team yourself. And for God's sake don't call the coach because your kid is not playing enough! (unless he is God's gift to the Earth, in that case move to Virginia and enroll him at Oak Hill Academy)

...What happened? I blacked out

[Brent_Bobyck]

I think RR Football is so poor because it can not come out from the huge shadow that RR Men's Tennis casts over it. They simply can not compete with that juggernaut of a program!

[SiouxMeNow]

how about..."rich kids who don't think they need to work for anything because they're in HS and ALREADY driving a new car that Daddy bought "

A JOKE!!! A JOKE!!! But seriously, tell me how a school of what, 800 or so kids, can't field a decent FB team? Don't blame the coaches...blame the kids! They have no pride! When I was a freshman - our team had been 0-8 the previous year! We went 2-6 my first year....4-4 as a sophomore...6-2 as a junior and 10-1 as a senior (losing only our state championship game!) And this was from a High School of 150 kids. We didn't piss and moan about being a "bad team" with "a lot of coaching changes". We said - we can do better! - and proved it! (Even if we ultimately fell short of a state title)

Bottom line - you only SUCK as much as you THINK you do!

[BigGame]

I agree with a lot of what has been said about the reasons for Red Rivers football struggles, and I have seen them first hand. The parents of many players are a lot of the problem. As the team was coming off the field after a loss to Devils Lake I watched a parent basically try to attack Paul Peterson. His son played on the Oline and he felt his son should be starting on defense as well. The guy was lucky his kid played at all considering how bad his son was. I doubt the kid would have started for any other team in the state The other problem is that people with money tend to also have a big ego, and also want power and end up having to much say or influence over the higher ups in relation to athletics.

The players are the other major problem because Red River does have some good athletes that choose not to play football because of influence from other coaches (hockey comes to mind first) and to a lesser extent parents. Ryan Potulney started at QB for Red River as a sophmore, only because he wanted to play football, his other coaches outside of football and to my knowledge his father didn't want him playing football and try to convince him not to play. Most of the kids at Red River are not like that, some kids worked hard but most did not. It is very hard for a coach to motivate a player if they really don't care if they win or lose, mommy and daddy are still going to treat these kids the same way win or lose (new car to drive, money to go out, sometimes very little or no supervision). Life is good and a football game or season isn't going to put a dent in that. I see the same thing to a lesser extent in the area where I work now, except here the kids have a lot more maney than anything you see in Grand Forks. Most of the kids don't care because the mansion with the Jag, BMW, and Mercedes is still their win or lose. Sports and hard just are not important to kids like that. There is alway exceptions to the rule, but these tend to be just a few exceptions.

To turn around the Red River football program, it will take a lot more than being a good football coach and motivating kids.

[ESPNInsider]

I don't agree with the money, car, nice house thing. That has always been the cry from others in the state. The kids at RR work just as hard as the kids in every other school. Why would a nice car make you not practice football? My reasoning behind this argument is look at some of the kids who have come out of RR. Marsden, Glas, Schneider, Casavan, Godfread, Ziggy, the Potulny brothers, Irmen, and on and on. That is quite a few kids who have made it to some of the top levels of their sports who come from RR. They didn't make it there because they drive a nice car, I'll tell you that much.

I think football just isn't that popular with the kids that go to RR. A steady coaching staff and some wins would probably change that.

In no way do I blame the coaches solely for this, that would be really stupid of me. It is just a combination of many things. Hopefully Vern, with his great knowledge of the game, can get things turned in the right direction. Until then I'm going to go hop in my new BMW my parents just bought me and lay on the beach!

[BigGame]

I don't agree with the money, car, nice house thing. That has always been the cry from others in the state. The kids at RR work just as hard as the kids in every other school. Why would a nice car make you not practice football?

I have seen it first hand in two different places. Some kids at RR work hard but most do not. It is your choice about thinking my point is valid, but I saw it at RR and where I am currently. It isn't only having money that causes kids to be apathetic, but it is one reason for many who behave that way.

[BigGame]

I think football just isn't that popular with the kids that go to RR. A steady coaching staff and some wins would probably change that.

It will take more than that, to turn that program around!

Marsden, Glas, Schneider, Casavan, Godfread, Ziggy, the Potulny brothers, Irmen, and on and on. That is quite a few kids who have made it to some of the top levels of their sports who come from RR. They didn't make it there because they drive a nice car, I'll tell you that much.

I have never said RR didn't have plenty of talented kids, but you are talking about a lot of hockey players which is a rich kid sport and gets a lot more focus and attention is Grand Forks. Casavan was a talented kid, and was recruited because of his size and speed (potential), many D1 schools recruit based upon potential. Glas happens to be a kicker and was a soccer player in HS (not to mention his dad is a coach).

Football just isn't important to most of these kids because life is good and it matters very little when they are so well taken care of.