Column in the Michigan School Newspaper

[Fedorov]

I thought you were supposed to put roses in a vase. Why would you put them in a bowl?

[PCM]

Really? I've lived in GF for 31 years and don't know thousands of people who live here, let alone, thousands that watch the Rose Bowl. You must be some social butterfly 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As sporting events go, I think we can all agree that the recent China vs. Norway hockey game eclipses the Rose Bowl in size, scope and importance. After all, most people in the world know where China is while only a fraction of Americans know where the Rose Bowl is.

[ESPNInsider]

Really? I've lived in GF for 31 years and don't know thousands of people who live here, let alone, thousands that watch the Rose Bowl. You must be some social butterfly

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You need to get out more

[Sioux-cia]

You need to get out more

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You got that right. In the past year I've been to Chicago (my home town) four times, Buenos Aires once, Minneapolis five times (the Final Five was one trip) and Columbus, Ohio for the Frozen Four. I work in Fargo so go there almost daily and I have friends who live in Northern Minnesota and have been there half a dozen times or so. I need to stay in GF and meet thousands of people instead.

[ESPNInsider]

You got that right. In the past year I've been to Chicago (my home town) four times, Buenos Aires once, Minneapolis five times (the Final Five was one trip) and Columbus, Ohio for the Frozen Four. I work in Fargo so go there almost daily and I have friends who live in Northern Minnesota and have been there half a dozen times or so. I need to stay in GF and meet thousands of people instead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like a pretty exciting year, but you're exactly right, you are not going to meet GF people that care about the Rose Bowl in those places!

[Sioux-cia]

Sounds like a pretty exciting year, but you're exactly right, you are not going to meet GF people that care about the Rose Bowl in those places!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep. And I didn't meet thousands of people who cared about the Rose Bowl when I lived in California for four years either. Oh, who am I kidding, I don't want to meet those people.

[edo1313]

Remedial journalism 101, Josh: When reporters carefully choose their words, it should not be a tactic for obscuring the truth. Perhaps Ralph is remembered by some lesser informed individuals that way but you yourself admit that you know the truth about his philanthropy and his character. I think you had the duty to share with your readers that truth.

Remedial psych 101: When a boy from a mere fly-over state goes to University of Michigan he may feel that he doesn't quite fit in there, that he isn't quite good enough to be there. So, the fastest way for him to convince himself and the Go Blue crowd that he is worthy of being one of them, is to renounce his "citizenship" in the fly-over state by bashing it.

Man, I can't believe Dr. Phil has a TV show and I don't!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a fellow college newspaper editor, I am going to step in and defend Josh. The piece he wrote was an opinion piece. He is not trying to uncover any scandal here, what he states is his opinion. He made it clear that he doesn't necessarily hold Ralph in the same regard as many of you do. Deal with it. He has his opinions, you have yours. I think it is entirely unfair to criticize his journalistic integrity when he merely stated his opinion in the appropriate section of a newspaper.

By the way, there are people on the UND campus who don't think very highly of Ralph as well, so its not like Josh's thoughts are anything new.

As for Josh, as a UND student ... I would take the atmosphere at a Big Ten basketball game over a UND game that is housed in an arena with entirely too many seats any day.

[ESPNInsider]

Yep. And I didn't meet thousands of people who cared about the Rose Bowl when I lived in California for four years either. Oh, who am I kidding, I don't want to meet those people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You obviously didn't live anywhere near Pasadena. That's true though that if you don't want to meet those kinds of people you won't! I just like everyone so I meet alot of people, people who like hockey, football, basketball, nascar, what-have-you.

[The Sicatoka]

As for Josh, as a UND student ... I would take the atmosphere at a Big Ten basketball game over a UND game that is housed in an arena with entirely too many seats any day.

And that's why UND Basketball is moving all home games to The Betty next season: Packed house atmosphere. Not all of the much-beloved Big Ten (and are we sure they can count?) can claim that.

[jimdahl]

As for Josh, as a UND student ... I would take the atmosphere at a Big Ten basketball game over a UND game that is housed in an arena with entirely too many seats any day.

No one is saying he (or you) are wrong to like a Michigan sport better than a UND sport. People are only pointing out that they honestly prefer a UND sport because his article stated that it's "crazy" to think cheering for the Fighting Sioux could be as rewarding as cheering for Michigan. No one is trying to deny him his right to prefer Michigan, we're just claiming that we find being fans of UND just as rewarding as he finds being a fan of Michigan.

The question on the table is still why someone writing a piece on the greatness of Michigan athletics would feel the need to buttress his claim with a hatchet job on thousand-mile-away, non-rival, out-of-division, UND athletics. (See previous postulating).

[FgoWolve]

Thank you. Finally, someone who can understand where I'm coming from. I was speaking to a bunch of Michigan students, since that's what the Michigan Daily readership is. I have to keep their interests in mind. And in order to make this whole North Dakota thing relevant to them, I used a current event to connect it to, which is exactly what you should do in a column. That event was the National Championship game. And I connect it to myself because I am from that state.

And also, this is not the space for me to quell any Ralph Engelstad rumors. I wouldn't have the time nor would enough readers be interested in that area. Just because I am from North Dakota does not mean that I am inherently born with the mission to spread his good name around the country. If columnists had to tell the entire backstory so some things just in order to make a quip, columns would get pretty dry and boring fast. I can't recount the entire O.J. Simpson trial just to make a joke about him, nor can I investigate a players' history if I want to take a crack at steroids. Plenty of people have ridiculous misconceptions about the Michigan basketball booster scandal. But I certainly don't expect them to look up what really happened before they take a swing at me with a comment that relates to it.

A column is not the place for fixing half-truths and cultural misconceptions, unless the column is entirely dedicated to it. Some of you have even made wild claims about me without fact-checking my past (don't appreciate soldiers, and my favorite, cut from the FNH JV hockey team). But this is a message board where you post opinions. I say go for it. I know the real truth.

[PCM]

As a fellow college newspaper editor, I am going to step in and defend Josh.  The piece he wrote was an opinion piece. 

Obviously.

He is not trying to uncover any scandal here, what he states is his opinion.

That's also obvious. And we have the right to disagree with his opinion, do we not? After all, he came here seeking other opinions, and that's exactly what he got. Deal with it.

He made it clear that he doesn't necessarily hold Ralph in the same regard as many of you do. Deal with it.  He has his opinions, you have yours.

Did you actually read what he wrote here? He said:

I absolutely realized how big of a philanthropist Engelstad was before I wrote that column. I grew up in the state obviously. I know all the great things he did and plenty of people look at him as nothing less than a hero...

In fact, in the e-mail Josh sent me, he said he'd defended Engelstad many times.

The issue isn't whether Josh holds Engelstad in as high a regard as some North Dakotans. The issue is that while he admits to knowing that Engelstad has done many good things, he instead uses his column to advance the misconception that Engelstad is a "Nazi sympathizer."

I think it is entirely unfair to criticize his journalistic integrity when he merely stated his opinion in the appropriate section of a newspaper.

Writing an opinion piece doesn't absolve a journalist from the responsibility of truth and accuracy. This is a concept that both you and he don't seem to understand, which makes me wonder what they're teaching in journalism school these days.

By the way, there are people on the UND campus who don't think very highly of Ralph as well, so its not like Josh's thoughts are anything new.

Really? That's the first I've heard of it. Maybe you should assign a reporter to do a story...

As for Josh, as a UND student ... I would take the atmosphere at a Big Ten basketball game over a UND game that is housed in an arena with entirely too many seats any day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you spent any time here, you'd know that most regulars agree that REA is too large to provide a good basketball atmosphere.

[jloos]

Pretty awesome. I attended Fargo South (thank you very much) and haven't played hockey since first grade.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fargo South - now that explains a lot. So you were cut in termites? That explains your frustration towards hockey.

The only thing I don't understand is how a university like MI allows such poor journalism in its student paper. I've seen better written articles in junior high and state prison periodicals.

[Sioux-cia]

You obviously didn't live anywhere near Pasadena. That's true though that if you don't want to meet those kinds of people you won't!  I just like everyone so I meet alot of people, people who like hockey, football, basketball, nascar, what-have-you.

Ok, I'll meet them. Just give me the names of the thousands of people you know in GF who care about the Rose Bowl and I'll make it a point to meet them. I don't want to be thought of as close minded. One of the reasons I love to travel is to meet people with diverse life styles, likes and dislikes, 'what-have-you' ,etc. I guess I shouldn't have excluded those thousands in GF who like to watch the Rose Bowl.

(Please note that I have not discredited those folks, made fun of their home state, the size their schools, eluded to false misconceptions regarding benefactors to the city, etc.)

[PCM]

And also, this is not the space for me to quell any Ralph Engelstad rumors.

You still don't get it. Nobody is saying that you should use your column to rehabilitiate Engelstad's image. They're saying that it's wrong for you to use it to advance misconceptions about the man that you admit to knowing are untrue. It's not about what you didn't do, it's about what you did.

[Sioux-cia]

You still don't get it. Nobody is saying that you should use your column to rehabilitiate Engelstad's image. They're saying that it's wrong for you to use it to advance misconceptions about the man that you admit to knowing are untrue. It's not about what you didn't do, it's about what you did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

RIGHT!! Did you get accepted to your school through some sort of waiver for "the will never get it impaired"?

..nor can I investigate a players' history if I want to take a crack at steroids.

If your going to name that player in connection with your crack at steroids you dam$ well better investiagate his history or be ready for a lawsuit. I am begining to suspect that your are not really a senior at Michigan. If you are, their standards for acceptance and graduation are a lot lower that I was led to believe.

[FgoWolve]

I just love watching people take sides on this. I just landed on the message boards at Duluth and a couple of them say this is a wonderfully written piece. Other friends at UND "enemy" schools have said the same thing. And they are also from North Dakota. It just goes to show that you can't really trust criticism from anywhere, unless its from some guy at the University of Arkansas or something.

Fargo South - now that explains a lot. So you were cut in termites? That explains your frustration towards hockey.

The only thing I don't understand is how a university like MI allows such poor journalism in its student paper. I've seen better written articles in junior high and state prison periodicals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[jimdahl]

I just love watching people take sides on this. I just landed on the message boards at Duluth and a couple of them say this is a wonderfully written piece. Other friends at UND "enemy" schools have said the same thing.

Of course fans of rival schools love to smack each others' teams, schools, etc... and love to see their rivals smacked. I'd fully expect to see such a piece written by a juvenile fan on a Gopher or Duluth message board, I'm just surprised to see it written by a "journalist" in a Michigan newspaper.

Next week write a piece about how you'd have to be crazy to be a Duluth fan because Michigan is so much better and you'll see their board fill with puzzled statements wondering why you feel the need to smack Duluth to make yourself feel good about being a Michigan fan. You might even see one fan on a Duluth rival's message board express their support for you.

[Sioux-cia]

FgoWolve,Apr 22 2005, 03:25 PM]I just love watching people take sides on this. I just landed on the message boards at Duluth and a couple of them say this is a wonderfully written piece. Other friends at UND "enemy" schools have said the same thing. And they are also from North Dakota. It just goes to show that you can't really trust criticism from anywhere, unless its from some guy at the University of Arkansas or something.

I hope that guy at the University of Arkansas has more integrity as a journalist than you do. You still don't get it. Of course, North Dakota bashing is going to be a hit at our rival schools. Why don't you give the Englestad's a call and ask them what they think of your article?

[ESPNInsider]

Sioux-CIA,

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of people in GF who realize the Rose Bowl is a lot bigger deal then Sioux games. Sure, I loved going to the NC game in Alabama a few years ago and watching some of my friends win a championship, but the Rose Bowl is much bigger then anything UND athletics has ever participated in. I don't think you can argue that, whether you think it is boring or not, it is much, much bigger, and many more people care about it then have probably ever heard of the UND Fighting Sioux. That was my point, not how many friends I have or how many trips you've taken in your life.

[PCM]

...I'm just surprised to see it written by a "journalist" in a Michigan newspaper.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A "journalist" who digs the hole deeper each time he attempts to defend himself.

[Sioux-cia]

Sioux-CIA,

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of people in GF who realize the Rose Bowl is a lot bigger deal then Sioux games.  Sure, I loved going to the NC game in Alabama a few years ago and watching some of my friends win a championship, but the Rose Bowl is much bigger then anything UND athletics has ever participated in.  I don't think you can argue that, whether you think it is boring or not, it is much, much bigger, and many more people care about it then have probably ever heard of the UND Fighting Sioux.  That was my point, not how many friends I have or how many trips you've taken in your life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Iknow, I was just playing with you. I hope the capitalized cia after Sioux-cia was not meant to be a 'subtle' slam. If you know someone that speaks spanish, ask them what Sioux-cia, spelled differently of course, means.

[edo1313]

Really? That's the first I've heard of it. Maybe you should assign a reporter to do a story...

You cover UND hockey for uscho.com and have never heard anyone from the UND community speaking out against Ralph Engelstad or the Ralph Engelstad Arena? Sounds like there is another "journalist" on this message board who should do a little more research in his reporting.

Get off your pedestal.

[PCM]

You cover UND hockey for uscho.com and have never heard anyone from the UND community speaking out against Ralph Engelstad or the Ralph Engelstad Arena?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's right. I think it's why you should do a story called "The Other Side of Ralph Engelstad." It'd be a real scoop. I'm thinking that it has Pulitzer potential.

[DamStrait]

Sioux-CIA,

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of people in GF who realize the Rose Bowl is a lot bigger deal then Sioux games.  Sure, I loved going to the NC game in Alabama a few years ago and watching some of my friends win a championship, but the Rose Bowl is much bigger then anything UND athletics has ever participated in.  I don't think you can argue that, whether you think it is boring or not, it is much, much bigger, and many more people care about it then have probably ever heard of the UND Fighting Sioux.  That was my point, not how many friends I have or how many trips you've taken in your life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Popularity is the hallmark of mediocrity.