Assembling all the pieces (methodically)

[Hansel]

I'm sure there are people on this site who know far more than I do about the finances of the UND athletic department, but I have a hard time believing that the $400k deficit takes into account all the REA revenue that supposedly goes back to UND. The reason being is that if such a deficit exists, why haven't we seen anything about it in the local media (Grand Forks or Fargo), and why haven't there been any apparent ramifications in terms of talk of dropping a sport or a big fund-raising campaign? Plus, would there really have been any talk of going dI by people like Rich Glas and Dale Lennon if the finances were so dire? Something about this just doesn't add up.  In any event, comparing the UND athletic department finances to NDSU or really any other school is an apples-to-oranges comparison so long as REA is a completely separate entity from UND.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It has been posted (by somebody who has regular contact with RT) that UND has gotten something like 40-60k from REA the last few years, and also that UND is "charged" to use the Betty. Also, if REA is pumping so much money into the UND AD, I doubt they would be using tuition waivers for women's hockey.

As far as it making the news, the Herald would be the obvious choice for the story, but I doubt that is going to happen. The Forum would also be a possibility (they did run a story on NDSU's AD budget deficit projections), but is probably wary of being perceived as anti-UND by alums in Fargo. When Montana had their one year, 900k deficit it was all over the Montana news, and the AD was pushed out. Is it any coincidence that RT is leaving after these deficits?

[UND92,96]

[Cratter]

A while ago, I emailed RT to find out and try to stop the speculation of how much UND gets from REA or how much if any rent UND has to pay REA for it's use. I have my doubts both ways. I don't think UND actually does get that much money from REA, and whatnot. A few months ago the New REA announced it's community impact and I pointed out that maybe a few things about REA and maybe it's not making as much money as people think. As sales and price increased so did the Entity of REA. If you look "Game Management" increased dramatically from the old REA. RT in his email to me seemed vague, and sounded like a typical politican.....

How much money did REA give UND over the past 3 or 4 years?

[SiouxMeNow]

[SiouxMeNow]

A while ago, I emailed RT to find out and try to stop the speculation of how much UND gets from REA or how much if any rent UND has to pay REA for it's use.

[SiouxMeNow]

ps...Bisondan? Your genius shows in every post you write...thanks for your contributions!

[star2city]

This article, Mastodons ought to join a conference, in the Fort Wayne paper indicates some of the desperation that IPFW must be feeling without a conference affiliation. IPFW's athletic department's identity is defined by its basketball and volleyball programs (its men's volleyball program is one of the better ones in the east), so conference affiliation is crucial for those programs. Since the article has so many salient points similar to what UND or other NCC schools would face, most of the article is posted below.

Alumni and other supporters of the IPFW athletic program know that the key to the program’s success is conference affiliation. Without this status, IPFW could face the embarrassing and institutionally crippling prospect of returning to NCAA Division II status, notwithstanding the efforts of student-athletes, coaches, athletic staff and the Fort Wayne community.

The architect behind the push to Division I and the missing link to complete the goal to conference affiliation is Chancellor Michael Wartell. In 1999, Dr. Wartell hired Walt Bowman as athletic director. Bowman’s sole objective was to enter IPFW into Division I athletics. The problem, however, is that the university never established a well-thought-out game plan to succeed in this endeavor. Walt Bowman left in 2001, leaving the burden of a strategic plan and conference affiliation to current athletic director Mark Pope. During this same period, our sister campus to the south, IUPUI, entered Division I, making the jump directly from NAIA competition into the Mid-Continent Conference. Unlike IPFW, our Indianapolis counterpart had its ducks in a row before making the move.

....

The next opportunity for the Mid-Continent or Horizon conference leaders to consider expansion will occur the first week of March. Conference leaders typically meet during their men’s and women’s basketball conference tournaments. Even with acceptance of a new school among their ranks, participation realistically would not commence until the 2006-07 season. IPFW’s opportunity to build a solid competitive foundation is jeopardized with each passing year.

Until IPFW achieves conference affiliation, its athletic teams will continue to compete at a disadvantage. They will continue to lose recruits to other schools. Furthermore, IPFW’s independent status forces its teams to criss-cross the nation seeking opponents, resulting in higher travel expenditures and additional missed class time. Without conference affiliation, our athletes have no realistic chance to ever play in a NCAA championship tournament. The men’s basketball team will exist as a “sacrificial lamb” to bring in guaranteed revenue. All the while, IPFW’s student-athletes graduate at a rate twice that of the general student population, and have accomplished collectively a 3.0 GPA.

Independent status has absolutely no advantage for IPFW. It’s time for Dr. Wartell to lobby, network, beg, plead, or do whatever it takes to accomplish this mission. IPFW’s student-athletes, coaches and athletic staff have given their all to the university.

It’s time to reward them, and the Fort Wayne community that has strongly supported IPFW athletics, with conference affiliation.

[SiouxMeNow]

good luck to the MASTODONS!! (with a name like that - they'll need it )

PS - funny how no conference affiliation can really come back to bite you...

[bigmrg74]

God SMN, I'm off researching a paper, not checking in for a few days, and this is what happens?? Tis!!

[star2city]

IPFW is an interesting case study in the DI experience going sour in the media after only a couple of years. Here’s the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly for IPFW:

The Good: Dick Vitale visits Fort Wayne, says there’s excitement galore, baby!!

2003: Vitale: Independent IPFW eyes conference affiliation

Now there's excitement galore at Fort Wayne, Indiana as IPFW (Indiana University-Purdue University-Fort Wayne) tries to hook up with either the Horizon League or Mid-Continent Conference. IPFW is chasing a dream to join a conference, and either league would be fortunate to add a program like this one.

I recently visited IPFW and came away impressed. I spoke at their pep rally and attended a book signing for "Living a Dream" (about my 25 years at ESPN). I loved the fan support there and enjoyed my visit.

The Mastadons play at Memorial Coliseum in Fort Wayne, a beautiful facility. It isn't Cameron Indoor Stadium, but the fans there still have a passion and a love for their team.

IPFW is fortunate to have passionate leadership up front. Coach Doug Noll, in his fifth season at the helm, is a believer who has assembled a solid group of young players. He has to be a believer to face such an ambitious schedule, but that is the life of an independent program.

(continued)

[star2city]

The Bad: “Grant us Patience” for a Conference Affiliation

2003: Six-degree link is IPFW's best hope

"It's a game of patience," Pope said. "We have to remember we're less than one year into the (NCAA) Division I situation. We get caught up in wanting to see it grow and see it grow right away. I think of that old prayer: 'Grant me patience, Lord,' and hurry."

IPFW's impatience is understandable. A berth in March Madness will come only through conference affiliation, that special moment when IPFW joins the six-degree link to Shalala.

(continued)

[star2city]

The Ugly: Only Impatience was granted - Coach fired this past January, presumably to increase their likelihood of getting a conference bid.

The rhetoric in the Fort Wayne paper changes dramatically:

IPFW joins big time, but acts smaller

And never mind that IPFW jobbed Noll in the first place by leaping to Division I without first securing a conference affiliation, a spectacular and unaccountable blunder.

No school the size of IPFW ever succeeds in D-I without conference ties, but Noll was asked to do so. He was asked to succeed with a young team against a schedule with just 11 home games. He was asked to succeed against a schedule studded with guarantee games, which essentially means sacrificing your team because your school needs the loot.

Not surprisingly, he failed.

And by ousting him in midseason, IPFW fails, too.

IPFW shamed itself when it fired Coach Doug Noll

To say that IPFW’s men’s basketball program’s progress could jeopardize a conference affiliation is weak. For being the second-largest city in the state, offering a Big Ten degree and a state-of-the-art Coliseum for games, why has IPFW not gained a conference affiliation? Lack of leadership rings a bell!

I have come to the realization that as long as IPFW lacks quality leadership at the top that can make the right decisions at the right time, the school will never align itself with a conference affiliation.

[star2city]

(continuation)

Coincidentally, in this morning's Forum, Mike McFeely addresses this same issue of DI disaster stories:

The disaster stories are out there. Sports Illustrated told the miserable tale of winless Savannah State. The Washington Post chronicled Longwood's 1-29 (soon to be 1-30) train wreck. Indiana-Purdue-Fort Wayne fired its five-year coach after a 3-13 start, which followed a 3-25 campaign last season.

Welcome to the fun-filled world of NCAA Division I men's basketball, independent-style.

It's a place where reaching for the bright lights of D-I without a conference is a recipe for calamity.

Tim Miles remains unfazed.

Of course, as the head coach of D-I independent North Dakota State, he is being well-compensated to not be fazed, but that might be considered nit-picking.

...

"We need to get more athletic. We need speed, quickness off the floor, those types of things," Miles said. "Just more athleticism. There is no question we need a different level of athlete compared to the North Central Conference."

The Bison also need a conference, any conference. Big Sky. Horizon. Mid-Continent. Missouri Valley. At this point, NDSU can no longer be choosy. Miles won't say it -- can't say it -- but the longer the Bison are without a conference, the better the chance his program will descend into a Fort Wayne-like purgatory.

Miles needs a league for recruiting. The program needs one for stability. The players need one for competition.

It is the single most critical factor for men's basketball because it ensures some sort of future, gives the program something for which to play.

Without a conference, the Bison will travel what Miles calls "a lonely road."

"It's imperative that we find a league. That's been the toughest thing about this, the fact that we didn't have a conference," Miles said. "That's how you figure out where you are. You play the third-place team and say, 'OK, that's what they have.' Then you play the sixth-place team and say, 'That's where they are.' You can gauge progress instead of just worrying about winning. This year, all we did was worry about winning. With a conference, the carrot is different."

A conference would allow Miles to remain unfazed. It would also allow NDSU to avoid being the subject of a Division I disaster story in several years.

For Miles' sake, I hope he has more success than Noll. It will be interesting to see just how much patience, and how many years of it, NDSU and SDSU administrators and fans will have.

[SiouxMeNow]

God SMN, I'm off researching a paper, not checking in for a few days, and this is what happens??  Tis!!   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

okay...I should have called...YES!! I've fallen off the wagon!!! but these guys are SUCH DORKS!!!!! for example...BISONDAN rhymes with DIIIFAN! (which is about what they are...)

Please help me!!! I'm trying not to personally hunt down each one of these bison losers and introduce them to a Red Pepper FIST sandwich!:-)* but I can't HELP IT!!! (haha)

*(This post does not endorse physical OR verbal violence in ANY way!):-)

[bigmrg74]

[SiouxMeNow]

violence against Grinders of course!!! Anyone who doesn't finish a grinder should go to prison for a term of not less than 1 year!!! Pounding a bison fan is like speeding your pregnant wife to the hospital....yeah, it's TECHNICALLY against the law but people understand why you do it and they don't care!!

[SiouxMeNow]

have we gotten off topic here

[Bison Dan]

violence against Grinders of course!!!  Anyone who doesn't finish a grinder should go to prison for a term of not less than 1 year!!!  Pounding a bison fan is like speeding your pregnant wife to the hospital....yeah, it's TECHNICALLY against the law but people understand why you do it and they don't care!!  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only thing suemenow could pound would be himself and that's a short subject and would be over quick.

[bigmrg74]

oh, this thread is so going to be locked down soon!!

[administrator]

oh, this thread is so going to be locked down soon!!   

True.

This forum was just around because there was actually quite a bit of news regarding UND studying its divisional classification recently. Lately, that seems to have subsided and it's just devolved into Bison v. Sioux smack, which is still definitely not welcome here.

This forum is closing again; don't worry, it will return when UND's division classification generates news in the future that warrants dedicated discussion. Those who wish to regularly discuss NDSU athletics should find an NDSU message board, some of which I believe even still encourage intra-fan smack.