Hansel Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Link quotes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-GARY Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I will agree with that SBison---it is kind of scary though in a way--a couple top teams have left and it kind of changes things a bit. I would feel much better if I knew for sure that UND is gonna leave and go D1-AA in the next 3-5 years. For now it is OK, but this conference is a lot weaker than it once was. No doubt about it. Thanks for coming on as a NDSU fan and sharing a positive thought! That certainly isn't a positive article! We'll see I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 I like how he makes it seem that the NCC is in such a tough predicament. With the loss of NDSU, SDSU this year it will definitely hurt the league, but still is a very strong league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskies679 Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 I would not expect the NSIC to respond any other way. They lost their flagship university in UMD and if another university from the NSIC could afford the NCC they would be gone too. It will take some time for the NCC to get the 8th spot. I do hope it is Winona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 I would not expect the NSIC to respond any other way. They lost their flagship university in UMD and if another university from the NSIC could afford the NCC they would be gone too. It will take some time for the NCC to get the 8th spot. I do hope it is Winona. I think Winona was their flag ship.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
updm002 Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 I find it hard to believe that the good folk of UMD would join the NCC if they believed it was in a "scary" position. The NCC needs an 8th team and it seems like with the 7 schools that we currently have that some schools would find this an attractive situation. Making the step up to the ncc is a whole lot less daunting than the step ndsu/sdsu has to make in d1. I hope the ncc doesn't go out of the area to get an 8th school but still believe that ultimately it will be no state, winona, or maybe wayne state. Living here in Omaha I hear some at UND want to go D1 like their fargo brethren. Gosh, having to fund women's hockey is going to take a lot of money and then to go d1 with all the extra associated expenses without a whole lot more revenue doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But then sdsu's financial numbers I have read about don't make much sense to me either and they are going to give it the old college try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 I find it hard to believe that the good folk of UMD would join the NCC if they believed it was in a "scary" position. The NCC needs an 8th team and it seems like with the 7 schools that we currently have that some schools would find this an attractive situation. Making the step up to the ncc is a whole lot less daunting than the step ndsu/sdsu has to make in d1. I hope the ncc doesn't go out of the area to get an 8th school but still believe that ultimately it will be no state, winona, or maybe wayne state. Living here in Omaha I hear some at UND want to go D1 like their fargo brethren. Gosh, having to fund women's hockey is going to take a lot of money and then to go d1 with all the extra associated expenses without a whole lot more revenue doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But then sdsu's financial numbers I have read about don't make much sense to me either and they are going to give it the old college try. Hockey is holding UND back from going D1. It will continue to do so until the NCAA reformats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 Hockey is holding UND back from going D1. It will continue to do so until the NCAA reformats. If UND decides to go DI, hockey will provide the economic engine that makes it possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 If UND decides to go DI, hockey will provide the economic engine that makes it possible. I assume you mean Men's hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 If UND decides to go DI, hockey will provide the economic engine that makes it possible. Hockey already is D1...I don't understand your point. Football will have to have an amazing influx of revenue in order for you to add 27 scholorships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskies679 Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 I think Winona was their flag ship.. 1234- I you are only talking about football the success for WSU is recent. UMD is the traditional power of the NSIC from to bottom, in both mens and womens sports. Also if we want to talk about general prestige, UMD was the flag ship university of the NSIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Hockey already is D1...I don't understand your point. I know. That is your misfortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Hockey already is D1...I don't understand your point. How can you not understand PCM's point? It's a rather simple and straight forward one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Not understanding PCM's point (needing the economics to work) is the main reason for lack of success for many attempting the transition. For example, Portland State, of the Big Sky, one of most successful DIIs of the late 1980s and early 1990s, now has to subsidize by university general fund dollars and student fees two-thirds of their athletic department budget. Plus, within the last year they've dropped mens and womens tennis pleading poverty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Not understanding PCM's point (needing the economics to work) is the main reason for lack of success for many attempting the transition. For example, Portland State, of the Big Sky, one of most successful DIIs of the late 1980s and early 1990s, now has to subsidize by university general fund dollars and student fees two-thirds of their athletic department budget. Plus, within the last year they've dropped mens and womens tennis pleading poverty. Portland State doesn't have a hockey program, nor is it one of the top schools in the state of Oregon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 We're not talking hockey. We're not talking about being a top school in the state. We're talking about paying, not subsidizing with university general funds or student fees, paying, the bills. Thus, PCM's comments about "the economic engine that makes it possible" if such a decision were to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Football will have to have an amazing influx of revenue in order for you to add 27 scholorships. Wouldn't that be true for anyone looking at such a transition? PS - It's not really 27. It's 54. For each mens football scholarship added (from 36 to 63) it'd be wise to add one for the womens sports to stay in compliance with Federal law (Title IX). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 We're not talking hockey. We're not talking about being a top school in the state. We're talking about paying, not subsidizing with university general funds or student fees, paying, the bills. Thus, PCM's comments about "the economic engine that makes it possible" if such a decision were to be made. PCM Posted on May 2 2004, 02:33 PM  QUOTE (Bisonfan1234 @ May 2 2004, 12:41 PM) Hockey is holding UND back from going D1. It will continue to do so until the NCAA reformats. If UND decides to go DI, hockey will provide the economic engine that makes it possible. 1. The original quote mentions hockey. Portland State does not have the Hockey team to fund it's Divison I sports. 2. UND is one of the top schools in the state, and would have more support than a Portland State. UND has those advantages over Portland State. Portland State would be a bad comparision to make to UND moving to Division I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Portland State would be a bad comparision to make to UND moving to Division I. PSU is a bad comparison to UND from the "economic engine" point of view. The transition (probation periods) was just about guaranteed to harm PSU's "engine" (football). That probably wouldn't be the case for UND and its "engine" (hockey). On that we probably agree. However, PSU is still in a state with a much larger population and overall state economic base than UND. From that perspective the advantage is not nearly as great. Alternatively, PSU's situation does compare quite well ("economic engine", state resources available) to certain other schools still hoping to gain entry to the Big Sky at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Alternatively, PSU's situation does compare quite well ("economic engine", state resources available) to certain other schools still hoping to gain entry to the Big Sky at some point. Portland St does not get as much attention in Oregon as a NDSU or UND does in North Dakota. They do have the same "Economic Engine" as NDSU, but they were not as successful in DII, and are not one of the top two priorities in the state of Oregon. I know what you are saying, but Montana or Montana St would be a better comparision IMO to the North Dakota schools moving to Division I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 PSU jumped before Oregon and OSU "re-emerged" so that was to their advantage. Then OU and OSU re-emerged. Say they only get 1/5 the media attention of NDSU or UND; however, there are 5 times the number of people out there as well. It's roughly a wash. PSU made the playoffs eight times and twice reached the national championship, losing both games, from 1987 to 1995. That's not a bad time to make the transition. Yet, they struggle. Sure, Montana and MSU would be better comparisons, but they've also had budgetary issues of late. The reality, because all this is purely speculation, is this: ... since arriving in the Big Sky, the (PSU) athletic department has needed help from the university's general fund -- $2.7 million in 2002-03. Add to that a $2 million outlay from collected student fees, and nearly two-thirds of PSU's $7.2 million budget is subsidized. PSU is not unique. Most universities at the I-AA level underwrite their athletic programs. But the Vikings operated with a $3 million budget in Division II without a single dollar from the university general fund. That's from an old story in The Oregonian and the link may not work any more. http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian...11019327120.xml Were UND to consider such a move, I'd like to know they have it figured out (how they are going to pay for nearly doubling, which is about the norm, and PSU did more than that, the athletic budget). I'm sure that Sioux Hockey revenues would be a key in all the calculations: economic engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 I guess the argument will never end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Isn't UND's budget already close to $7.2 million? What percent is hockey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Why do currents matter? The theme with going DI-AA is increased costs. PSU is a case study showing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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