NDSU decides to move to D-I

[ScottM]

Relax Jethro, both of you. You come to a Sioux board and don't expect to get your chops busted? Please. What fun would that be?

Have a nice swig of Prestone and a good weekend.

[JBB]

Well you guys have a good football weekend up ther in bugtussle and we will enjoy our game here at the Prestigious Fargo Dome.

[The Sicatoka]

As one of you knows a major Sioux contributor, I know a high-ranker from within the TeamMakers organization. A direct quote from him: "Fargo is a front-runner's town. When you win, you don't have enough seats. When you lose, you can't give them away."

I'm amazed by the NDSU "scholarships" argument. -> "D-II is cutting scholarships. NDSU can't win like that." And NDSU isn't winning under the reduced scholarships tally. When the number in D-II was higher (and few D-IIs could fund them all) NDSU was winning. Now the number's lower, almost everyone funds them all, and NDSU isn't winning. OK, so now NDSU is moving to where there are more scholarships. But all the competition can fund all the scholarships. How is that going to be any better?

What's it take to move up?

Money and facilities.

Money: Maybe an edge to NDSU. Fargo is larger than Grand Forks. (But Grand Forks has an ace in the hole that won't let one particular program face budgetary issues.)

Facilities:

FB: FargoDome vs Alerus. Seating edge to FargoDome.

BB: BSA vs old REA (forget Hyslop, it's becoming the wellness center). Old REA holds over 6K now and that's before adding floor seating where the ice used to be. I'd say the condition of the two put them at par, with the slight edge (seating) to old REA.

Training facilities: Last time I looked, the three largest weight rooms in the NCAA were the FB room at Nebraska, the FB room at Notre Dame, and the training area in some hockey arena in Grand Forks, North Dakota.

UND plans to put a sports bubble over the old Memorial Stadium field. Sounds like the ability to train for track and baseball and soccer and football all year.

Oh yeah, I guess you can seat about 13000 for BB in some shed called the new Ralph Engelstad Arena, too. (I believe the Kansas coach said he'd never seen a better arena.)

In my opinion, both are about in the same position for a move up. UND may have more cash flow/fund raising issues, but they don't have to worry about putting up a D-I caliber basketball (real, not FargoDome or Alerus) arena. They have their funding lined up for facilities renovation (wellness, bubble, redoing REA). So what's worse? Trying to raise that extra million per year (assuming a D-IAA NCC) or paying down the debt on a $30,000,000.00 arena? Sounds the same to me.

Hey, if Brookings (SDSU) thinks they can go D-I, don't insult GF and say they couldn't possibly. Ever been to Brookings? It wouldn't be the fifth largest city in ND.

Both schools need to make the choice that's best for them. But please don't fool yourself and think that NDSU's two year approach isn't done with the quiet hope that some other traditional rivals come along. That would solve some of the need for an additional million plus in travel dollars for Stream Yellow.

[administrator]

Alright -- let's try to keep the pissing match to a minimum. We all know that NDSU grads all work on farms and UND frat boys all wear women's clothing. Just saying that by itself doesn't constitute an argument -- at least tie it back to the subject at hand (in this case: UND Football -> NDSU decides to move to D-I).

[mksioux]

Today's Herald editorial came out in favor of UND staying DII. If Tom Dennis thinks UND should stay DII, then UND should definately move up to DI immediately.

[jimdahl]

Today's Herald editorial came out in favor of UND staying DII. If Tom Dennis thinks UND should stay DII, then UND should definately move up to DI immediately.

For those who didn't see it:

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforkshe...ald/4013676.htm

This argument makes NO sense. UND shouldn't move to D-I because there are too many scandals in D-I? UND is completely in control of whether or not it follows NCAA rules. If UND follows all the rules now, why would it start cheating just because it was D-I? Staying D-II to avoid the "scandal-ridden D-I" just doesn't make sense to me.

[ScottM]

So, this "scandal-phobia" doesn't preclude us from playing Minnesota, Wisconsin, BC, Michigan, Maine, etc. in hockey?

[bisonguy]

Okay, I'll play nice again.

This morning on HotTalk on WDAY AM, there was a roundtable discussion of area athletics with a few sports guys from WDAY and The Forum. Anyhow, there's been talk of the Fargodome building an addition that would seat approx. 8,000-10,000 people. NDSU knows that the BSA is a hindrance in moving the BB up. Seeing as how the Fargodome is sitting on NDSU property, this would make a nice little BB or possibly, if enough foresight is put into it an ice sheet, hockey.

Maybe JBB will expound about this, but there was talk of putting a bubble over Dacotah Field to house track and be a multi-sport facility. Is it possible that UND and NDSU are getting a two-for-one bubble deal?

[The Sicatoka]

bisonguy:

Getting a two-for-one deal would be smart. We're dealing with administrators from both sides here. Have you ever known a smart administrator?

[bisonguy]

Smart administrator=oxymoron.

I've never purchased a giant bubble, but you'd think they could even get a buy one, get one 50% off.

[The Sicatoka]

Yo bison-dude:

I saw the following posted over at that response-to-the-article board at In-Fool'em.

How'd you respond to this person's concerns? They seem more than legitimate.

I am concerned about the direction of NDSU basketball. There has been so much discussion around Div. I-AA football and almost no talk of basketball. I realize basketball is a distant second in popularity to football, but the future of NDSU Division I basketball programs looks pretty grim considering (1) scheduling with the potential lack of a conference, (2) the eight years probation, (3) recruiting (who would choose to come to NDSU if the is no hope of an NCAA tournament bid or even a conference title), (4) the mediocre basketball arena, and (5) the lack of crowds / excitement even in the conferences such as the Mid-Continent and the Big Sky. Their average attendance is even less than the NCC

[bisonguy]

BB, unfortunately, will be the sport that gets hurt the most. It will definitely take a LOT of hard work to make the BB program something to be proud of. The Fargodome is contemplating an addition that would house 8,000-10,000. The Fargodome is built on NDSU land, so NDSU just has to say we'll lease it for BB(and hockey), and the Fargodome Authority has to respect their intent. That's a possible solution for the arena. A fanbase will

have to be built up, which won't be easy. Without a conference, the BB wait is 13 years, so I think it's essential to be in a conference. Okay, I'm addressing the points out of order. Ineligibility-A conf. championship or other tourneys(NIT, etc.- I know they're not that great, but they are something) will have to do until NDSU will be eligible. Once eligible, ALL D1 teams make some money from the tourney. I don't think Miles will stick around long enough to see the NCAA tourney. Ruley probably will, but it's hard to say. I think the men will have to find an upstart head coach looking to move up a level, once they are postseason eligible. Basketball is definitely not going to be an easy transition(easier for the women, though), but nobody ever said it would be.

[Riverman]

Bisonguy, Your man Gene was on Mac Talk today in Forks,

He said on the air NDSU would NOT be able to compete with UND in hockey.

If you don't believe me I think they play back the best of Mac Talk on Sat.

if they are not running the radio auction.1590am

I think NDSU can remove hockey from the table.WCHA said no, CHA maybe

but now that the Slippery 16 is on the horizon. The less teams the leagues

have, the better the chance to field a team from your division.

I wish we could drop UAA now that they broke the deal on paying us to play them!

How did this become a hockey thread?

[bisonguy]

I don't think hockey will be a topic again at NDSU until at least 2012. I was just saying that if the Fargodome builds their addition, they should put in an ice sheet or whatever so they could have the capability to have a place to play hockey in the future, or field a club team again. I have no idea what they need to do for an ice sheet. My only experience with ice is making ice cubes to make my scotch colder.

[jimdahl]

I don't think hockey will be a topic again at NDSU until at least 2012. I was just saying that if the Fargodome builds their addition, they should put in an ice sheet or whatever so they could have the capability to have a place to play hockey in the future, or field a club team again. I have no idea what they need to do for an ice sheet. My only experience with ice is making ice cubes to make my scotch colder.

I think making ice involves burying a bunch of pipes/cooling equipment in the concrete floor. So, it basically involves creating an entirely new floor (which is why it's so much cheaper to build it into a building than to try to retrofit a building).

I agree that NDSU moving to D-I eliminates the possibility of adding hockey for a long time. UND spends $1.9 million to run it's men's hockey program, and there's no way that NDSU can add men's without women's in this era of Title IX. Especially if financial issues surrounding the move to D-I force NDSU to drop some non-revenue sports, adding a new sport will be a hard sell for a while.

[bisonguy]

Jim, isn't there a minimum number of sports a school can have? I believe I heard something on the radio that NDSU would be at the minimum allowed number of sports, so dropping a non-revenue sport may not be an option. Maybe women's bowling could be added. That has to be a low-cost sport. My remarks about the ice are a small jab at the Fargodome. They supposedly put the pipes in the floor, but the cooling units would cost something around $8 mil., but were originally reported to cost a couple hundred thousand.

[jimdahl]

Jim, isn't there a minimum number of sports a school can have? I believe I heard something on the radio that NDSU would be at the minimum allowed number of sports, so dropping a non-revenue sport may not be an option.

Huh -- right you are. This page says you need 14 to be D-I:

http://www.ncaa.org/eligibility/faqs/faqs_general.html

A quick check of GoBison.com reveals that NDSU currently sponsors 14.

[bisonguy]

You obviously can find your way around the NCAA site a lot better than I can.

[JBB]

The Fabulous Fargo Dome authority has been talking about the midsized arena for a while. In order to build it NDSU has to sign on as a major tennant. It will have ice, and if its built NDSU will have hockey. No vote is needed. I think plans are to renovate the BSA for basketball, I have seen plans for a bubble over the old Dacotah Field. Another arena is being planned for womens hockey. This would seat about 3,000 and is being paid for by private donations.

Its very funny watching as the Division 2 sue soxers wring their hands over this. Also, watching many of you start to come around and even laugh at the anti D1AA arguments that have been flowing out of grand forks and were once considered the gosple truth. Now I see many of you making the case for why you can go. Its all so laughable. 6 months ago all I heard was why NDSU shouldnt/couldnt go. Truly a coordinated effort to maintain the D1 hockey monopoly was undertaken and now has failed. But the paint seems to be drying in the corner your painted into. The collapse of the D1 hockey/D2 all other sports monopoly must be anguishing.

[The Sicatoka]

JBB:

The Fabulously (Flooded) FargoDome could put up its own "Fargo Arena," but there'd be some noise from the people in Fargo. That'd be fun to watch. Why renovate BSA if there is going to be an 8000 seat arena across the barren parking lot?

The donor who was going to put up the womens hockey arena? He's gone. He pulled out. Not gonna happen. Sorry. Even I'm more up on that than you.

And about D-IAA? You hold the paint brush that put UND and USD into the corner. That's OK. When the budgets go sour, we'll remind the State who did it.