NDFlyer Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 So, has all the video watching in the NFL and college hockey ELIMINATED cheap shots? If the answer is no, then obviously it has not worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmduf Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Does this make him inelegible for Hobey, or can he still win it? I think Senja (spelling?) came back for the awards ceremony after signing with the Blues. sucks that he's gone..but I still like our chances next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDFlyer Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Mafia Man, Nt sure why you bring up the Bertuzzi incident. What Bertuzzi did was a cheap shot just as any stick swinging incident or a hard check from behind. Eliminating fighting would not have prevented Beretuzzi from going after Steve Moore. Going after Steve Moore immediately AFTER he took out Marcus Naslund would have done much more to prevent it than allowing it to brew for several weeks and then explode during a rout. Moore didn't have to go after Naslund in the middle of the ice, but he did. Just becasue there was no penalty called hardly means it was a clean hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDFlyer Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Please explain why fighting is the equivalent of a cheap shot....especially when 99.99% of the time both men consent and are able to handle themselves? You'd rather see an open ice hit on a guy with his head down and who suffers a concussion? These "clean hits' cause more injuries than fighting. Just ask Keith Primeau, Marcus Naslund or Eric LIndros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Please explain why fighting is the equivalent of a cheap shot....especially when 99.99% of the time both men consent and are able to handle themselves? You'd rather see an open ice hit on a guy with his head down and who suffers a concussion? These "clean hits' cause more injuries than fighting. Just ask Keith Primeau, Marcus Naslund or Eric LIndros. I agree with NDFlyer. MOST fights are consensual and, to a certain degree, staged. No, I'm not saying it is scripted ala WWE wrestling. I'm saying that they just don't go out there and yank a guy in and start pummeling away. The other player has every opportunity to turn down the challenge of fighting. It is rare when it is turned down, but it has been in the past. I do believe that those few fights out there that are not consensual, basically a player goes out there and starts cheap shotting everyone in sight until someone drops the gloves, should be punished. I also believe that if you are dumb enough to warrant a fight being thrown up against you, you should fight the fight yourself. None of this Enforcer style hockey. That way if those primadonnas want to go around and throw cheap shots and happen to do it to a 6'5" Dman with an attitude, it's their stupidity, they take the blows. This won't eliminate fights, but it sure will cause the coach to put the smack down in some cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 So, has all the video watching in the NFL and college hockey ELIMINATED cheap shots? If the answer is no, then obviously it has not worked. No, but they also rarely settle it with fisticuffs either. Listen to a lineman talk and they will talk about how there is all kinds of nasty stuff that goes on in the scrum between the offensive and defensive line. I'm sure they could resort to fisticuffs several times a game to try and put an end to things but they don't. I'm not above saying I don't enjoy watching a hockey fight. I will say I would enjoy watching NHL hockey more if it was on big ice and if there was less emphasis on on-ice policing (other than the guys in stripes....man is THAT backward) and more emphasis on skill and flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDFlyer Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Gotta figure a guy whose favorite team has Joe Kocur as an asstistant would be on board with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are totally correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Gotta figure a guy whose favorite team has Joe Kocur as an asstistant would be on board with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are totally correct. I'm not a Kocur fan. If you want a down and dirty ex-wing, look at Lapointe and Ciccarelli. Actually Cicarelli moreso. Gotta love a guy who you know before the puck is even dropped is going to crash the net every time he is in your zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDFlyer Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 dagies, You don't think defenses would adapt and evolve if the NHL game were played on bigger ice? I don't see bigger ice in the NHL resulting in a significant increase in goals scored or even chances. The nets are still the same size. The goalies are getting bigger and better...........not to mention the size of their equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 So, has all the video watching in the NFL and college hockey ELIMINATED cheap shots? If the answer is no, then obviously it has not worked. That's not the point. Cheap shots will never be totally eliminated in sports because players will always lose their heads and do stupid things. In that regard, hockey is no different from any other contact sport. The only thing anyone can do about it is make the cost of such behavior so steep that coaches discourage it and players are deterred from engaging in it. Why do you think that Sioux fans never see more than one or two fights a season? It's because the NCAA makes players and teams pay a high price for their conduct. Saying that fighting in hockey is necessary to enforce the rules is like saying that vigilantism is best form of criminal justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDFlyer Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 How can you NOT like Joe Kocur? Dude did everything you asked of him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 dagies, You don't think defenses would adapt and evolve if the NHL game were played on bigger ice? I don't see bigger ice in the NHL resulting in a significant increase in goals scored or even chances. The nets are still the same size. The goalies are getting bigger and better...........not to mention the size of their equipment. Rinks will get longer (expanding the neutral zone), the equipment is getting smaller due to regulations and they may not allow the goaltenders to handle the puck behind the net anymore. Darn Brodeur for being such a good stickhandler! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDFlyer Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 PCM, Merely because you personally do not like something does not necessarily make it untrue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Merely because you personally do not like something does not necessarily make it untrue. Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDFlyer Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Let's see, some of you are willing to accept the reality of cheap shots.....AS LONG AS THERE IS NO FIGHTING!!! No. We can't have that now, can we? God Forbid! Your children see more violence at school, on tv and on their little video games they play 20 hours per day then they will ever see at an NHL game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDFlyer Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 PCM, I am flat out saying that retaliation in the form of fighting IS necessary to deter cheap shots. Just because you object to this does not mean that what I am saying is false. You can have all the rules in the world but, as you have just suggested, there are times when a player loses it. I am saying that the player might think twice about losing it if hre knows he is gong to have to fight someone. Wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 NDFlyer, Didn't Moore "honor" the NHL code by fighting in the first period of that game recently? Yes, Bertuzzi's hit was goon-ish and doesn't really qualify as "fighting." I was trying to point out that fighting serves its purpose, but there are places where it's totally out of line. Since the overall plan of hockey is to increase fan base, you can either do it two ways: Turn it into "Slapshot" and encourage the typical redneck who loves WWE, mud-wrestling, and shinin' rabbits to come to see fights at the hockey arena... or reduce fighting, impose harsh penalties for being a thug (the year suspension for Bertuzzi is a good start), and make the casual fan interested in the finer points of the game...the skating, the passing, the scoring, and the goal-tending. Now tell me how baseball, football, and the NBA can be successful by changing their marketing strategies all the time, yet you ask the casual sports fan about hockey and their response is "isn't that the sport where they fight all the time?". Do the math, folks. Hockey's a niche sport about to be overtaken in the US by soccer. SOCCER! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 dagies, You don't think defenses would adapt and evolve if the NHL game were played on bigger ice? I don't see bigger ice in the NHL resulting in a significant increase in goals scored or even chances. The nets are still the same size. The goalies are getting bigger and better...........not to mention the size of their equipment. I don't know if it would increase goals scored. But I like to see a guy able to carry the puck a little bit. To me the NHL game seems too clogged. It's like in baseball. Little league teams play on smaller fields, shorter fences. Older players play on larger fields. I think NHL ice is a good size for college hockey, but NHL players with their greater speed and skill would make the game on Olympic sized ice more fun for me to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 I am flat out saying that retaliation in the form of fighting IS necessary to deter cheap shots. Just because you object to this does not mean that what I am saying is false. What you're saying is merely your opinion. Just because you think it's correct doesn't mean that it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Hockey's a niche sport about to be overtaken in the US by soccer. SOCCER! Ugh. Now THERE'S a sport that needs some fighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprig Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Good luck, Zach. Can't wait to see him in the NJ lineup for the playoffs. Will be nice since I'll probably get some NHL on TV, but seldom get to watch the Sioux, including this past weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 official word from the new jersey camp. Zach Signs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux Traveler Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 The dream is over!!!!! http://www.newjerseydevils.com/2004/html/d...PR20040329.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Here's what I don't get about the Bertuzzi incident as it relates to the fighting issue. Practically everyone agrees that Moore's hit on Nasslund was clean. Yet the proponents of fighting think that the Canucks were perfectly justified in going after Moore because of a legal hit! They say that if Bertuzzi had fought Moore face to face and beat the crap out of him, they'd have no problem with it. So how does that square with the need to protect players from cheap shots? Someone hitting a player within the rules of the game deserves a beating. Someone cheap-shotting a player deserves a beating. Heck, a more objective oberserver of the NHL might just come to the conclusion that fighting serves no useful purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alum05 Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Will Zach be able to play in the playoffs or did they have to have their rosters set already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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