High sticking

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Bunch of whiners

[redwing77]

First of all, Vanek is a big guy, bigger than prpich. There will always be slashing and high sticking in hockey. All I hear is whining when I read through these things. The Sioux lost, so what. And yes, Ballard and Vanek are really talented players, just because we have a defensemen better than all of yours doesn't give you the right to rip into him. Vanek is highly skilled, I don't know about you, but you don't get drafted number 5 overall in the NHL if you are a "no talent hack"

Hey, as for your dmen being better than ours, how many goals a game did they give up? Now look at ours.

WHOOOPSIES! I guess you just are wrong.

I WILL admit that the Gophers have better OFFENSIVE defensemen, but hey, Blais recruits dmen with defense first in mind, offense second. We have our offensive defensemen, but they just don't stand out next to the Gophers D. What we DO stand out in is our stingy defensive power.

Go take your "Our Dmen are better than yours" crap and shove it.

On other notes to all: If you want to pick on the Gophers fans, do so to morons who malign the Sioux with no information to back them up. sagard, Greyeagle, and (sometimes ) WPoS tend to be quite rational.

Heck, I don't see many Gopher fans posting on this board that agree that Parise's incident with Vanek was a cheap shot except for sagard and Enforcer.

Vanek is indeed bigger than Prpich. The question is: When Prpich decks Vanek, is he going to dive to the ground and play injured or is he going to punch back? My guess is that he'll do the former. Prpich would tear Vanek into shreds if fighting were allowed.

And, by the way, the reason why Vanek didn't get 5 was because Adam didn't want to be responsible for taking Vanek out of the first round of the NCAAs.

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whine whine whine

[tboneund]

First of all, Vanek is a big guy, bigger than prpich. There will always be slashing and high sticking in hockey. All I hear is whining when I read through these things. The Sioux lost, so what. And yes, Ballard and Vanek are really talented players, just because we have a defensemen better than all of yours doesn't give you the right to rip into him. Vanek is highly skilled, I don't know about you, but you don't get drafted number 5 overall in the NHL if you are a "no talent hack"

Vanek is a cherry picker...not talented.

The comment about having "...a defensemen [sic] better than all of yours..." is quite frankly laughable.

True he was drafted number 5 overall, maybe he has talent, but that doesn't mean he's not a cherry-picking hack.

[redwing77]

whine whine whine

troll troll troll

[sagard]

Sagard - you comment on "it happens this time of year" - should we say Prpich go railroad Briggs and take him out of the game. Hell...it happens this time of year.

Typical Gopher Fan, it is OK when the Gophers do it...imagine what would the postings would be if Zach had chopped Vanek!

It is a good thing the Sioux hockey team doesn't have your whiny attitude. I never said and I didn't mean to imply that what Vanek did was OK. After seeing the replay it should have been five.

Running the goalie will happen, maybe not when the Sioux/Gophers matchup, but it will occur. Last year it was BC crashing into that Cornell goalie a couple of times, I would not be surprised if a DU player goes after Parise/Brandt. You should be either.

As for Prpich getting Vanek, he will no doubt be going for it. If he gets to Vanek early and often, the Sioux will likely win. If he takes stupid penalties leading to PP goals, the Gophers will have a chance.

Sioux fans at this point should be VERY happy. The team has earned the best path to the Frozen Four, as FF semi with likely one of two teams they are 8-2 on the season with, and a championship game with likely a weaker eastern team. If all you have to complain about at the end of the season is Final Five loss and some Parise mistreatment, it will have been a great season for the Sioux.

[redwing77]

It is a good thing the Sioux hockey team doesn't have your whiny attitude. I never said and I didn't mean to imply that what Vanek did was OK. After seeing the replay it should have been five.

Running the goalie will happen, maybe not when the Sioux/Gophers matchup, but it will occur. Last year it was BC crashing into that Cornell goalie a couple of times, I would not be surprised if a DU player goes after Parise/Brandt. You should be either.

As for Prpich getting Vanek, he will no doubt be going for it. If he gets to Vanek early and often, the Sioux will likely win. If he takes stupid penalties leading to PP goals, the Gophers will have a chance.

Sioux fans at this point should be VERY happy. The team has earned the best path to the Frozen Four, as FF semi with likely one of two teams they are 8-2 on the season with, and a championship game with likely a weaker eastern team. If all you have to complain about at the end of the season is Final Five loss and some Parise mistreatment, it will have been a great season for the Sioux.

I agree. Didn't we look like this in 2000 when we lost in the Final Five and went on to win the NC?

Yeah, Vanek is a cherry picker. A solid single dimensional hockey player with an attitude problem. When he is on offense, he's good, but he has no defense. His cheap shot was indeed a cheap shot, but that's about all I can say. Defensive liability and all, the NHL needs goal scorers and that's what Vanek is.

He deserved to be drafted 5th overall. But some of the best wingers in NHL history weren't even drafted in the first round. Brett Hull, for example, was drafted in the 6th round. Luc Robitaille, one of the best LW in NHL history, was drafted in the 9th round. There were first rounders in the 1984 draft that didn't even make the NHL (Quinn was drafted in the top 10 and never played in the NHL). Craig Redmond was drafted #6 overall and only played 3 seasons in the NHL. Petr Svoboda, that year's #5 pick lasted only 7 years, and one of those seasons was spent in the Czech Republic.

Patrick Roy was a 3rd rounder that year and he's the best goaltender to play the game. Draft position means nothing really.

[Schmitzzz]

sagard, despite what some here will say, you continue to be a very level headed and welcome guest on this board.

[GopherK2]

Wow - so much Vanek bashing.

If memory serves he almost single handedly took the Gophers to the promised land in the Frozen Four last year.

Are you guys also saying you wouldn't want him on your Squad? If that's the response then I'll know you are just being spiteful for spites sake because he is a difference maker when it counts.

I'll admit that he goes through periods of play that lack focus but when he gears it up there are very few teams (if any) that can contain and/or stop him.

[redwing77]

Wow - so much Vanek bashing.

If memory serves he almost single handedly took the Gophers to the promised land in the Frozen Four last year.

Are you guys also saying you wouldn't want him on your Squad? If that's the response then I'll know you are just being spiteful for spites sake because he is a difference maker when it counts.

I'll admit that he goes through periods of play that lack focus but when he gears it up there are very few teams (if any) that can contain and/or stop him.

All I'm saying is I like players who never turn it off or on. Players who focus on both sides of the game. Players who never give up. Players who play smart and not give up on being spirited. Vanek is excellent on the offensive side. I don't like his defensive ability. His ability to be like Randy Moss is staggering. One minute he's amazing and the next he's undeserving of even being dressed.

That's why everyone likes Zach. Oh, he may not be the prolific goal scorer that Vanek is, but he never gives up, always works hard whether his team is up by 7 or down by 12. He plays both sides of the puck and does so well. He's by no means one dimensional. Sure he's smallish 5'11", but he has heart. Not even the staunchest of Gopher supporters can deny that Zach is a good hockey player even if they don't think he's the best.

I buy into Blais' coaching style. He likes them in for both sides of the game, not just one.

[Schmitzzz]

I would take Vanke on the Sioux... but I wouldn't trade Bucks, ZP, or Murray for him (you could probably add Stafford to that list as well). I think Vanek is a liability in the club house so it wouldn't be an easy trade no matter who we had to trade on the Sioux.

[GopherK2]

Why does this have to be about comparing Vanek to Parise?

Do you want a team full of two way "feel good" players and zero championships or a team that knows how to balance unbelievable offensive talent within a scheme that doesn't make it a liability. If it's such a liability I'm wondering how the Gophers are able to win at all.

Yes, the spearing was flat out wrong. Yes, Parise is one helluva player.

No, Vanek is not the first person in the history of college hockey to take a similar shot (doesn't make it right but it sure seems to make it easier to pile on criticism - or is it envy?)

[The Enforcer]

Not even the staunchest of Gopher supporters can deny that Zach is a good hockey player even if they don't think he's the best.

You are absolutely right. In fact, most Gopher fans like me who watched last Saturday's game would have very little reason to say he is anything but the best player in college hockey and deserves the Hobey. If he doesn't win it, it's a joke in my mind.

However, to label Vanek as having no talent (like some have) is false. He may be weak defensively, selfish at times, a cherry picker, and lacks the Waibel work ethic.....but the kid is flat out talented. He makes moves offensively that others only dream of. To say he is the product of good players around him is stupid. If Koalska and even Riddle had a better scoring touch, Vanek would probably have at least 10 more assists right now. Watching last Saturday's game is not equivalent to seeing every game the entire year.

[dagies]

I agree. Didn't we look like this in 2000 when we lost in the Final Five and went on to win the NC?

Actually? No. We won the Final Five that year. We lost the FF in 2001 to SCSU and then lost to BC in the "other" FF.

[Taz Boy]

Actually?  No.  We won the Final Five that year.  We lost the FF in 2001 to SCSU and then lost to BC in the "other" FF.

That was the last time HE put a worthy team in the Frozen Four. Since then, they've been cream puffs.

taz had to edit this for clarity, if nothing else.

[jk]

However, to label Vanek as having no talent (like some have) is false. He may be weak defensively, selfish at times, a cherry picker, and lacks the Waibel work ethic.....but the kid is flat out talented. He makes moves offensively that others only dream of. To say he is the product of good players around him is stupid. If Koalska and even Riddle had a better scoring touch, Vanek would probably have at least 10 more assists right now. Watching last Saturday's game is not equivalent to seeing every game the entire year.

I agree with your comments about Vanek's talent. He is in the wrong league talent-wise. He looked flat-out unstoppable against UMD Friday, generating one great chance after another in the second and third periods. He is the reason I think MN will not be beaten by anyone other than UND the rest of the way, because only UND has the big NHL-style defensive defensemen who are not only theoretically capable of containing him, but in fact have throughout the season series. He has picked up his points here and there, but he has not been the shift in-shift out force he can be against most teams.

Bash his work ethic all you want, although I think that is way overdone, but bashing his talent is just silly, IMO. Likewise, the bashing of Parise and Bochenski that goes on at POI left ridiculous behind a long time ago.

[The Enforcer]

Likewise, the bashing of Parise and Bochenski that goes on at POI left ridiculous behind a long time ago.

Agreed.

[GopherK2]

Agreed.

Concur as well but I have to admit that I get a kick out of Bochenski's off ice shenanigans i.e counterfeiting as a youth!

[SIOUXPERGREEN]

Vanek was just ticked cause he had just got SMOKED by Parise. I'm sure Doug Woog, ever the Gopher apologist, made it look like Parise RAN Vanek, though, and it was an accindent, right!!! Vanek, the GOPHER LOAFER, is a cheapshotter who CAN'T and WON'T play defense. He has great offensive sense, but he just waits for Koalska to feed him at the red line where he hangs out, while his teammates plat DEFENSE in the DEFENSIVE zone. Yes Tomas there is such a place!!

[GopherK2]

Vanek was just ticked cause he had just got SMOKED by Parise. I'm sure Doug Woog, ever the Gopher apologist, made it look like Parise RAN Vanek, though, and it was an accindent, right!!! Vanek, the GOPHER LOAFER, is a cheapshotter who CAN'T and WON'T play defense. He has great offensive sense, but he just waits for Koalska to feed him at the red line where he hangs out, while his teammates plat DEFENSE in the DEFENSIVE zone. Yes Tomas there is such a place!!

You're right - Lucia should just bench his lame ass for the rest of the NCAA's. What the heck was Don thinking anyway bringing this all world offensive superstar into such a defensive minded conference anyway?!?

And then he has the gall to let him drive the team to it's second championship in a row and on pace for a third - maybe somebody in Minny should have Lucia's head too - they just don't get it, do they?!!

[SIOUXPERGREEN]

Some of the bashing of Vanek is cause we don't like the Gophs, but Ive seen the guy play 9 times in person and a bunch more on TV. He IS a great player offensively. He DOES has a great nose around the net. DUUHHHH! I don't like him cause every time I see him play he is takin little cheapies at other players who are skating past him with the puck. He is always trying to put a blind hit on someone who took the puck from him earlier that period. BOOO HOOO!!! Suck it up you little BABY!!! If you think I'm wrong, you need to watch him sometime!! I've tried to keep a constant eye on him while he is on the ice, but I lose him all the time cause he isn't always giving it all out there. Then there he is spearing, slashing,cross checking, and whatever else he can do as you skate by him on your way down the ice. I don't like Vanek because he is a cheap, one demensional player who will be pulling a Bertuzzi in future years after he gets the puck stolen from him again!!

[streakygopher]

He's just a lazy a-hole who's going to get his ass kicked at the pro level. His work ethic sucks.

Of course, they said the same thing about a UMD player some years back...let me see...his name is...ah...oh, yes!...Brett Hull.

Vanek hussles when he needs to. He just doesn't have the motor of a little guy like Parise or Riddle. I do agree he needs work on the defensive sheet. At first blush he doesn't seem like much of a skater, but the guy has reserve power. He also has one of the best shots in college hockey. He can beat you cleanly or scrum. He is a very physical player who sometimes loses his cool...and usually hurts his team for it. I will be shocked if he doesn't become a better-than-average NHLer.

The shot on Parise was uncalled for (not sure if Zach did anything earlier to warrant reprisal), and if I were ref, I might have called a 5 minute penalty...but then, I might have called a 2 minute on Zach for diving in the game's last minute or two. He goes down real easy, if his team needs a penalty. If a player gets that reputation, sometimes they don't get the calls when they really deserve them. The problem in college hockey is the face mask. It's too easy to hack somebody.

Taylor=good physical defenseman who can skate and looks good for a freshman...reminiscent of the Sioux's entire defensive corps.

[PCM]

Concur as well but I have to admit that I get a kick out of Bochenski's off ice shenanigans i.e counterfeiting as a youth!

Of course, you do know that he was never charged with that, don't you?

[GFSIOUXFAN]

I am sure I know of the play that Zach supposedly dived on and it would be tough not to fall down when somebody tackles you by the head. Zach was closing on the puck in the gophers zone, being who he is, would have had a good chance to make something happen and even a biased gopher fan couldn't argue that. He is a player of great character and would take the opportunity rather than a penalty any day. Zach goes down easier than some players because he is smaller, but also because he always has the puck and defencemen get desparate and do whatever it takes to bring him down.

In addition, I used to think highly of Vanek even though he was a gopher. After seeing him lolly gag around and cheap shot left and right I was disturbed. After the second period, I talked to a random gopher fan that said he was a "disgrace to the program the way he was playing suchole, cheapshot, lazy and will eventually cost them an important game", If life has a way of balancing out, he could be right. Vanek dominated in the champ game last year and could wind up costing them dearly against a Duluth tyype team in the NCAA's.

If Vanek plays like this in the pros he will get killed. (by his own coach/team)

[GopherK2]

I am sure I know of the play that Zach supposedly dived on and it would be tough not to fall down when somebody tackles you by the head. Zach was closing on the puck in the gophers zone, being who he is, would have had a good chance to make something happen and even a biased gopher fan couldn't argue that. He is a player of great character and would take the opportunity rather than a penalty any day. Zach goes down easier than some players because he is smaller, but also because he always has the puck and defencemen get desparate and do whatever it takes to bring him down.

In addition, I used to think highly of Vanek even though he was a gopher. After seeing him lolly gag around and cheap shot left and right I was disturbed. After the second period, I talked to a random gopher fan that said he was a "disgrace to the program the way he was playing suchole, cheapshot, lazy and will eventually cost them an important game", If life has a way of balancing out, he could be right. Vanek dominated in the champ game last year and could wind up costing them dearly against a Duluth tyype team in the NCAA's.

If Vanek plays like this in the pros he will get killed. (by his own coach/team)

LOL

The following is quite clear:

1. Sioux fans do not follow every single Gopher game of the year

2. Gopher fans do not follow every single Sioux game of the year

Because of this indisputable FACT neither side will ever truly see the full picture and we'll be left with erroneous comments like the above (that Vanek lolly gags and costs his team Games). Do you honestly believe that his play style has dramatically changed from the Championship run to this year? Are you aware that he has been playing injured this year? How many games exactly has Vanek 'cost' the Gophers?

I don't expect you to be able to answer those questions because (due to Item 1) above you would only be speculating.

Face the facts - Sioux fans are more than able to jump on the bashing bandwagon simply because they can't stand the Gophers and fabulous players like Vanek. I'm sure that winning consecutive championships has increased the Sioux bile even further. Just don't pretend that it's anything else like you suddenly are incredible hockey minds and understand what makes a player like Vanek tick or that you got more insight from mysterious Gopher fans.

I'm fine with that as I feel the same way about plenty of the Sioux players - the difference is that I don't bash quality players for the sake of bashing - especially when I haven't watched them play the entire year.