UND92,96 Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I was just thinking of how few North Dakotans there are right now who are currently averaging double figures in points at the dII level. As far as I can think of, there's only Jared Keaveny at SW St. and Evan Lindahl at UND. Obviously Nick Jacobson is doing well at Utah, and Koenig at WI-GB probably would have done pretty well in the NCC, but it seems like there should be more decent basketball players being produced in North Dakota. I don't see too many current high school players who look like they will go on to successful college careers, either. It seems that there are a lot more players who have disappointing careers, i.e. some of the recent Mr. Basketball winners, than those who actually live up to their high school hype, i.e. Scott Guldseth and Chris Gardner. Is this just a down period, or more of a long-term trend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I agree with your observation. Obviously, I hope that it is a down period rather than a long term issue. You mentioned Koenig - it is interesting to note that he is unhappy at Green Bay. His friendship with UND red-shirt, Tommy Leikas, may turn out to be a plus for UND. I have no inside knowledge other than the statement about his being unhappy - I don't want to start a rumor!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Perhaps he would like to join former Fargo North teammate Andy Thoreson here @ NDSU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 On the subject of HS sports, maybe it's nostalgia ("the good ol' days") but I'd have to agree that the performance level ND HS BB has, at best, held steady over the last 20 years. A general note: A transfer from any DI (for example DI-AAA UW-Green Bay) to any other DI would require him to sit out for a season. A transfer to a DII or DIII and he'd be immediately eligible to play. * DI-AAA: They don't play football at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WYOBISONMAN Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 There probably is not as much talent at the HS level in ND because there are so many fewer students than 10 or 15 years ago. Rural enrollment is in a tailspin as are the numbers of young people in North Dakota. Same thing is happening here in Wyoming. Fewer kids.....smaller talent pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Luckily NDSU is a provisional D1AA next year...so he wouldn't have to sit out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 There probably is not as much talent at the HS level in ND because there are so many fewer students than 10 or 15 years ago. Rural enrollment is in a tailspin as are the numbers of young people in North Dakota. Same thing is happening here in Wyoming. Fewer kids.....smaller talent pool. Rural population is going down because there is no money in farming, go figure. Who wants to live way out by yourself 20 miles from your neighboor anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Luckily NDSU is a provisional D1AA next year...so he wouldn't have to sit out. Actually, isn't this year NDSU's "provisional" year and next year, under the NCAA language NDSU's "first year." A requirement during "first year" is: 20.5.2.2.2 First Year. During the first year of reclassification, an institution must satisfy the following requirements: .... ( c ) Apply Division I legislation to the greatest extent possible; ... Now what are those requirements of interest here: 14.5.1 Residence Requirement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 The Sicatoka, There you go again... trying to explain something to BF1234 using logic and facts. For shame! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I just couldn't figure out a way to follow the lead of 'tony' and explain things, much less NCAA rules, to him using "red fish, blue fish." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD17 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I don't really think the level of play or the talent pool in ND has changed that much over the past few years. I think the biggest issue facing UND when it comes to recruiting in-state players is the fact that D1 schools don't overlook the kids they might have 15 or 20 years ago. With all of the AAU play and regional and national camps, kids from the small states like ND get noticed and recruited by D1 programs if they can play. Just think of the difference it would have made in UND's program to have had Jeff Boschee, Tyler Koenig, Kenny Younger or Nick Jacobson play for the Sioux. I think you can win at the D2 level with local players being the backbone of your team if you know who to recruit and have some patience in developing them. Northern State made the Elite 8 about 5 years ago with Scott Hanson from Tolna, Jeremy Vliem from Hettinger and one of the Pankratz boys from Minot Ryan as three of their key players. All three of them were basically overlooked by UND and NDSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelbird Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 There is a VerDouw kid from Bismarck that is going to Augie next year and what happened to the Terry kid who went to Texas-San Antonio and then transferred to SU. Plus I think most of the good in state players are going to Jamestown, Minot, Mary, etc because UND and NDSU are not recruiting them and have been relying more on Jucos and transfers. Archambault kid went DI down south and is now back playing for Mary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND92,96 Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 There is a VerDouw kid from Bismarck that is going to Augie next year and what happened to the Terry kid who went to Texas-San Antonio and then transferred to SU. Plus I think most of the good in state players are going to Jamestown, Minot, Mary, etc because UND and NDSU are not recruiting them and have been relying more on Jucos and transfers. Archambault kid went DI down south and is now back playing for Mary. I hate to single out players, but since you mentioned Terry, he's one of the primary culprits of a guy who looked very good in high school but who's pretty much been a bust in college. There have been at least two Mr. BB winners in the past 3 or 4 years who have been major disappointments in my opinion, and that along with the fact that there are really only three ND players right now who have distinguished themselves at all at the dII or dI level (Jacobson, Keaveny and Lindahl) prompted me to start this thread. Yes, there are others who may also do well eventually, i.e. Koenig, but it seems like this is a very down period for producing successful college players from North Dakota. I don't see kids like Mike Boschee anymore. Kids with limited athletic ability and/or size but who can shoot the lights out and who are able to carve out very successful college careers through sheer hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 The VerDouw kid was a great prospect when he was a freshman in HS but did not continue his development. Niether UND nor SU had an interest in giving him scholarship $. (That doesn't mean he won't develop into a decent player.) The Terry kid transferred from SU to Valley City State. There certainly have been cases over the years where a ND kid turned into a heck of a player at smaller colleges but I can't think of an obvious "miss" by UND or NDSU in the last 5-6 years. Northern definitely recruited 2-3 of them in the mid-90s. Who else am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 From Texas to NDSU, now to Valley City. Did Terry's game never progress much? Injuries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Plus, he had committed to UND before changing his mind and going to Texas at the last minute. That prohibited us from getting another kid we wanted because we had committed $ to Terry. I think he had some minor injury while in Texas but nothing to blame a so-so career on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Actually, isn't this year NDSU's "provisional" year and next year, under the NCAA language NDSU's "first year." A requirement during "first year" is: 20.5.2.2.2 First Year. During the first year of reclassification, an institution must satisfy the following requirements: .... ( c ) Apply Division I legislation to the greatest extent possible; ... Now what are those requirements of interest here: 14.5.1 Residence Requirement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corella Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I'm sure we'd find a way to bend the rules for a great player like Koenig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corella Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 The interesting thing with Koenig is that if he didn't go DI, he told UND that he was theirs. If he is unhappy, UND is in a very good situation to land him because of the relationships and history he has developed with the school, too bad it is all speculation at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 There was Travis Kraft... however foot/ankle injuries severely limited him and ended up costing him his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 2004-05 is NDSU's first provisional year. It goes by school years. Yes, it goes by academic calendar and it is a five year process. Now, assuming these dates are good (and that's trusting my memory): 2003-2004 -- The provisional year 2004-2005 -- The "first" year by the definition I quoted above. 2005-2006 -- Second 2006-2007 -- Third 2007-2008 -- Fourth NDSU's football team is playoff eligible in fall of 2008 (academic 2008-2009), right? Isn't that correct? (Some other Bison fan please confirm or clarify.) The schedule above would put you one year behind UNC in transition and that's where NDSU is. This past season was UNC's "first" year in DI-AA status. If 2004-2005 is truly NDSU's "first" year (per NCAA definitions), a DI transfer, ala Koenig, would have to sit out a season. (See above.) Man that's a lot of work for a pure hypothetical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 This year is NDSU's "exploratory" year... which is technically part of the "5 year" transition process. The next four years will be years as a provision DI institution. Other than semantics your dates are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Northern State made the Elite 8 about 5 years ago with Scott Hanson from Tolna, Jeremy Vliem from Hettinger and one of the Pankratz boys from Minot Ryan as three of their key players. All three of them were basically overlooked by UND and NDSU. Add the Undlin's from Mohall to that list. Interesting to note that the assistant coach at NSU in those days was Tim Miles. Yes, that Tim Miles. As long as Glas has been at UND, ND class B has not been recruited that heavily by the Sioux. Ben Jacobson was an assistant coach in those days and you would have thought coming from Mayville and being a successful player for the Sioux, that he would have been able to see that Class B players could compete at that level. One issue was that UND wouldn't offer money initially to the ND kids. They would have to come to UND and "prove themselves" and maybe get some scholarship money after a year. I know that is what happened with one of your three listed at NSU. And I know that it happened with many others as well. Maybe that has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Clayton - I am not asking this in a argumentative way, but please tell us what other Class B recruits UND has approached in the manner you explained. We do have to remember that this is how a lot of players are recruited at all schools. If the school doesn't have a lot of scholarship $ available and/or they aren't sure a kid will be a real contributor, they are asked to walk-on and "earn" a scholarship. Often, the recruit will go somewhere else where he will get some $. With the lack of real talent at the B level in recent years, I am curious who we (or the Bison) overlooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Ok i'm wrong then. However, i still see where it could be very easy to bend the rules for a guy like Koenig where by we are still a D2 school to a D1 school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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