Atlas Shrugged

[207Sioux]

What is amazing is how many whacky liberals get so bent over a work of fiction.

Given that Rand also wrote an extensive political philosophy, headed a political movement surrounding that philosophy, think tanks have been established to propagate her philosophy, and a large number current leaders including Alan Greenspan and Clarence Thomas have referenced her as one of the most influential philosophers in their lives, it's more than just a novel. Rand herself argued that art was the most effective means of transmitting a political philosophy. Her philosophy breaks down to greed good, altruism bad. she railed against many of the safety net programs that were established by the government such as social security and medicare, but enrolled in both at the end of her life; although, she enrolled in both under her maiden name so as not to tarnish her philosophy. Her diaries also showed her admiration for a serial killer who kidnapped and killed a 12 year old girl. But it's the liberals who are whacky...right.

[passit_offthegoalie]

Crazy how whacky conservatives get so excited about a book. A whole thread to shower love on it. So whacky.

We're living in the new gilded age, but unfortunately, the Republican party has convinced most of their people that it's the Carnegies and Rockefellers of the world, that are the victims. Case in point, Atlas Shrugged. Other case in point, Republicans block a law that would make sure that the richest man in America, Warren Buffet, and other very wealthy people, pay as much in taxes as their secretaries. Warren Buffet is for it, but that's not good enough for your average poor or middle class conservative. They want more power concentrated in the hands of the wealthy.

Top tax rate was 90% under Republican Eisenhower, and the rich and everyone else did OK. Eisenhower, what a socialist.

[GeauxSioux]

http://cnsnews.com/b...omans-crucified

This could have been right out of Atlas Shrugged....

“I was in a meeting once and I gave an analogy to my staff about my philosophy of enforcement, and I think it was probably a little crude and maybe not appropriate for the meeting, but I’ll go ahead and tell you what I said:

“It was kind of like how the Romans used to, you know, conquer villages in the Mediterranean. They’d go in to a little Turkish town somewhere, they’dfind the first five guys they saw and they’d crucify them.

“Then, you know, that town was really easy to manage for the next few years.”

In regards to Buffet and his secretary, the argument is her tax rate is higher than his, not that she pays more taxes. I have read even the tax rate argument is weak. Buffet pays more taxes than his secretary and if he feels he doesn't pay enough taxes, he is welcome to pay as much as he wants.

[Mariucci]

What is amazing is how many whacky liberals get so bent over a work of fiction.

Kind of like how conservatives went crazy about The Da Vinci Code, another work of fiction?

[Ranger]

Kind of like how conservatives went crazy about The Da Vinci Code, another work of fiction?

Dunno... this discussion is about Atlas Shrugged.

[Ranger]

Given that Rand also wrote an extensive political philosophy, headed a political movement surrounding that philosophy, think tanks have been established to propagate her philosophy, and a large number current leaders including Alan Greenspan and Clarence Thomas have referenced her as one of the most influential philosophers in their lives, it's more than just a novel. Rand herself argued that art was the most effective means of transmitting a political philosophy. Her philosophy breaks down to greed good, altruism bad. she railed against many of the safety net programs that were established by the government such as social security and medicare, but enrolled in both at the end of her life; although, she enrolled in both under her maiden name so as not to tarnish her philosophy. Her diaries also showed her admiration for a serial killer who kidnapped and killed a 12 year old girl. But it's the liberals who are whacky...right.

Appears someone needs a hug. Yawn... nice google response. I will not need a social security check when I retire, but I will damn sure collect it because it was earned and paid for in blood, sweat, and tears.

[passit_offthegoalie]

I will not need a social security check when I retire, but I will damn sure collect it because it was earned and paid for in blood, sweat, and tears.

Appears someone needs a hug. I would give you one, but you are a supporter of socialism, by taking part in social security and using public roads.

Appears someone needs a hug. Yawn... nice google response

"google response", what a cop out. I guess you don't have an intelligent response.

' 'anyone that seems like they know more about something than me, must be using google."

Yawn.

[Ranger]

Interesting. The two main complaints of Rand are: 1) she collected SS so therefore she's a hypocrite and, thus, her writings are rubbish, and 2) she 'idolized' a serial killer so she must be an insane psychopath, etc... Your primary criticisms. And you accuse me of unoriginal thought. I don't worship her writings, but found them interesting and entertaining. What is fascinating is the negativity and polarization that surrounds her work. I've found that many like yourself who oppose Rand so strongly have never read any of her work in its entirety, possibly not even a word of it. And you're correct... I do use public roads because I am forced to pay tens of thousands of tax dollars each year into our increasing wealth redistribution system. I believe I have earned and paid for that privilege.

[Snake]

Appears someone needs a hug. I would give you one, but you are a supporter of socialism, by taking part in social security and using public roads.

"google response", what a cop out. I guess you don't have an intelligent response.

' 'anyone that seems like they know more about something than me, must be using google."

Yawn.

Last time I checked my employer and I would go to jail if we didn't "willingly" participate in Social Security by having FICA taxes taken out of my paycheck. Tell me - Who has the option not to participate?

[passit_offthegoalie]

Last time I checked my employer and I would go to jail if we didn't "willingly" participate in Social Security by having FICA taxes taken out of my paycheck. Tell me - Who has the option not to participate?

Whatever, Saul Alinsky.

[Snake]

Whatever, Saul Alinsky.

Nope. Even Saul would have to "willingly" participate!

[Taz Boy]

"The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair and "The Grapes of Wrath" by John Steinbeck are both much better than Atlas Shrugged. Both books are inspired by what life was really like for most Americans before the reforms introduced during the New Deal. They both paint pretty stark pictures about the terrible abuses that took place when the wealthy of the country had free reign to exploit the working class without any interference from the government.

I've read Atlas Shrugged and really can't describe it as anything other than the selfish rantings of one truly selfish human being. I still find it amazing how conservatives have embraced Ayn Rand considering her views on religion and on gun control. The views she espouses throughout Atlas Shrugged are completely antithetical to those championed by Jesus Christ yet you'll hear many politicians on the right list both as being prominent influences on their ideology.

Textbook Unconstrained (Utopian) Vision. I would submit to you that centralized government, with unchecked growth, has no equal it its ability to inflict widespread economic disaster and human misery. No equal. That's why the bias should always be towards the free market and it's near infinite resource capacity and distributed knowledge. I suspect the support of Ayn Rand among conservatives or libertarians is largely with the economic stance as played out in Atlas Shrugged, with very little hoot given to matters theological. Only leftism would mandate such a singular groupthink.

[GeauxSioux]

Textbook Unconstrained (Utopian) Vision. I would submit to you that centralized government, with unchecked growth, has no equal it its ability to inflict widespread economic disaster and human misery. No equal. That's why the bias should always be towards the free market and it's near infinite resource capacity and distributed knowledge. I suspect the support of Ayn Rand among conservatives or libertarians is largely with the economic stance as played out in Atlas Shrugged, with very little hoot given to matters theological. Only leftism would mandate such a singular groupthink.

See the former Soviet Union as an example.

[LeftyZL]

Crazy how whacky conservatives get so excited about a book. A whole thread to shower love on it. So whacky.

We're living in the new gilded age, but unfortunately, the Republican party has convinced most of their people that it's the Carnegies and Rockefellers of the world, that are the victims. Case in point, Atlas Shrugged. Other case in point, Republicans block a law that would make sure that the richest man in America, Warren Buffet, and other very wealthy people, pay as much in taxes as their secretaries. Warren Buffet is for it, but that's not good enough for your average poor or middle class conservative. They want more power concentrated in the hands of the wealthy.

Top tax rate was 90% under Republican Eisenhower, and the rich and everyone else did OK. Eisenhower, what a socialist.

I know we try to keep politics off this forum, but get your facts straight. As someone pointed out, Warren Buffet already pays a ton in taxes every year and if he wants to pay more, he's more than welcome to.

An article from the Congress' Joint Committee on Taxation says that the "Buffet Rule" would bring in $47 Billion over 10 years. That's $5 billion a year rounding up to be nice. A drop in the bucket to our yearly budget deficits of $1+ trillion under both Bush and Obama. They both spent way too much money every year of their presidency and now our future is going to pay the heavy price of it all.

I wish people on both sides of the aisle wouldn't paint their counterparts with such a broad brush.

[watchmaker49]

I wonder why Paul Ryan has now denounced her?

[Ranger]

I wonder why Paul Ryan has now denounced her?

Because he finally realized that she was, gasp... an atheist!

[GeauxSioux]

I wonder why Paul Ryan has now denounced her?

It was politically expedient.

[watchmaker49]

It was politically expedient.

Somewhat shows his lack of convictions then.

[GeauxSioux]

Somewhat shows his lack of convictions then.

Same could be said about just about any politician.

[watchmaker49]

Same could be said about just about any politician.

How true.