One for "The Student"

[diggin42]

I guess this is what happens when we have so much time between games and crave relevant things to read. I stumbled across this website and thought I would pass it along:

http://www.hockeyfights.com/

Just click the "Player Info/Fight Cards" link and enter anyone's name in the "Search by Keyword" space and it gives an account of that player's NHL fights. I checked out Hale, Commodore, Wilson, etc. Some accounts are better than others and unfortunately it didn't go back as far as Archibald

Here's the "Fight Card" on Hrkac's lone fight:

Comments: Turgeon threw some punches with his gloves on. Hrkac dropped his right glove and landed a shot that sent Turgeon down for a few minutes. Great KO. Turgeon did not play the rest of the game.

I don't mean to berate the Dakota Student writers, but as everyone pointed out a while back, it's part of the game.

[Smoggy]

I remember that fight when ESPN showed it. It happened like three years ago. I believe they got together behind the net. Turgeon might have thrown a few, but he didn't land any. If I remember correct, Hrkac took one uppercut swing that knocked Turgeon out. I'm sure the crowd was demanding there money back, because the fight didn't last long.

[mksioux]

Fighting is appealing to the same kind of people that watch WWF, and in my opinion hockey doesn't need those kind of fans.

I can't stand the wwf, but I like fights in hockey. Go figure.

One of the big reasons I like college hockey so much is because they don't allow that crap.

...And because they don't allow that crap you get little punks giving face washes, stick jabs, cheap shots, running the goalie, running off of the mouth, etc. with no fear of repercussions.

It's nothing more than neanderthal entertainment

Different strokes for different folks. No need to generalize about people who like a good hockey fight now and again.

and sets a very bad example for kids who might be watching the game.

I grew up and saw a fair number of fights in college and pro hockey and I haven't been in a fistfight since I was 19. Go figure.

[redwing77]

Fights suck!!! I wish the league would start to fine and suspend players for getting in fights like they do in the NFL, NBA, and MLB. Fighting is appealing to the same kind of people that watch WWF, and in my opinion hockey doesn't need those kind of fans. One of the big reasons I like college hockey so much is because they don't allow that crap. Get into a fight, sit out a game. That's how it should be. It's nothing more than neanderthal entertainment and sets a very bad example for kids who might be watching the game.

You are one of a growing crowd, Dave. I dislike the WWE (HEH, they lost their name to a bunch of tree huggers! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) for various reasons that I won't go into, but I think fights have a place in hockey. Here's why:

Fights just for the sake of fighting is not allowed. In the NHL, the league office watches every scrum or happening during a game and has an official aside from the refs at each game. It's the same with the WCHA (the dude usually stands in the opponent's penalty box area during the game). Every big penalty, espeically double minors and greater, are reviewed by the office to investigate further punishment. The same goes for fights. A good example is if a fight is instigated by a team that is winning the game. There is no reason for a team who is winning to start a fight, therefore the league could come down on the player. Usually, however, the winning team's player who starts the fight is given a 5 minute major for fighting, a 2 minute minor for instigating and a game misconduct.

Usually, fights are staged. No, I'm not saying that before each game players and coaches from other teams get together and say "At this time these guys will fight." I'm saying that they'll ask each other if they want to drop the gloves either right after a stoppage of play or soon after the puck is dropped. The player who is being asked always has the opportunity to skate away if he wants.

Fights are also staged in that they can add up to being a firestarter for the losing team, especially if it is percieved that their teammember "won" the fight. A twist in momentum like that is all that is needed to turn the game around sometimes.

Admittedly so, you don't HAVE to fight to turn the game around, but sometimes, that's what happens. Fights are getting fewer and farther in between as those players who are labelled "enforcers" are tasked with having a more offensive contribution to the team. That's why you see Tie Domi, Donald Brashear, Kirk Matlby, Darren McCarty, and the like trying to score more or set something up. Fighting is still a legitamite thing to do in the NHL, but it is slowly becoming more of a desperation tactic than anything else.

[CoteauRinkRat]

RW77

I actually agree with you on something. Fights do have their time and place in games.

[forecheck]

I really don't mind all that other stuff... it's just the drop your gloves and put up your dukes crap that I can't tolerate.

You don't mind cheap shots that can seriously injure a player? Stick jabs? Running the goaltender? Guess everyone knows not to ask you to be on their beer league team.

[CoteauRinkRat]

Don't you think players can get injured when they drop the gloves and put up their dukes? Broken nose, black eye, teeth knocked out, etc... I don't really like to see cheap shots either, but I don't think that stuff really gets noticed much by kids who might be watching the game. When players decide to drop their gloves and fight, everybody notices. I just think it sets a very bad example for kids. What if some kid playing in a mites or squirts league decides to fight with another player because he saw some NHL guy do it on TV? I have a hard time understanding how it's okay in hockey when it's not okay in football, baseball, and basketball. Yes, it can be entertaining I guess... I just think the punishment should be more than five minutes in the penalty box. Give them a fine and/or suspension.

wow, all I can say

[tnt]

I find it interesting that you appear to be a fan of the Oakland Raiders, who have been the cheapest team the NFL has known. Maybe if fighting were allowed in football, you wouldn't have the head to head helmet shots that the Raiders and other teams use to intimidate. Fighting does serve a purpose. Players now swing their sticks to avoid getting kicked out of a game for throwing punches. A stick is much more lethal than a fist.

[airmail]

What if some kid playing in a mites or squirts league decides to fight with another player because he saw some NHL guy do it on TV?

Then the kid's father should "educate him" on the rules of fair play and sportsmanship, and keep the kid home until he understands those rules.

If what we see on TV influences all of our actions, I'm sure we have more to worry about than a few uppercuts between whistles...

[redwing77]

Actually, the Raiders aren't half as cheap as their reputation says they are. It's more urband legend than fact. Back in the '70s they earned the reputation and it has stuck through many generations of players that have come and gone. They weren't really cheap, they just hit people really hard and played an aggressive smash-mouth style of football. Rarely did they ever hit anybody out of bounds or go for the knees.

If players are going to use their sticks as weapons (I really haven't seen anybody other than Marty McSorely do it blatantly) there are better ways to handle it than to let a couple of guys duke it out on the ice. How about a heavy fine and suspension for the guilty party? Nawww, that makes too much sense.

All I have to say is Romanowski. Yeah, he spent most of his time in Denver getting the rep, but didn't he do something really cheap at the beginning of this season? Oh, and it was to his TEAMMATE!

As for mites or squirts etc, they don't allow checking even until Bantam or some level like that (12 years old or so). Correct me if I am wrong (which I have been lately).

And if there is fighting in that league (bantam or whatever that allows checking for the first time), evidence shows it is the father's in the stands doing the fighting and not the kids. Case in point, a hockey dad killed another hockey dad because he thought the check that his son recieved was cheap. So if you want to talk about fighting in the youth leagues, it would show a poor coach or it would be the parents not the kids. Just imagine that kid who lost his dad because of a questionable check during a game. If someone has more info on that case, maybe they can give more specifics?

[Smoggy]

I've been to many youth and high school hockey games. I've seen way more fan fights than the kids fighting. Normally a punch is thrown, but with a helmet on it isn't that big of a deal. The big difference is reffing. The linesman will immediately break up a fight in the youth leagues, where they let it go in the older leagues.

I don't like the college 3 fights and done for the year rule. I don't mind if you get suspended for a game, though. One thing I like about hockey is that it can really police itself. Except for the WCHA which really doesn't allow fighting thanks to the Commodore Rule.

Keep in mind that hockey players are rarely able to land good punches. They also have a very hard time staying on their feet. In any other sport it would be a boxing match, but in hockey it's over with pretty quick.

[redwing77]

Wasn't it Sandy McCarthy who was scratched for like 3 games after his suspension because he got in one too many fights as was acting detrimental to the team? I don't know. I've heard of someone in the NHL who that happened to. Don't know who it was exactly.

Besides, with production becoming the most important aspect of professional hockey, enforcers like Scott Parker, who's most known for fighting, is finding a hard time finding work every night.