NDSU vs. UND not likely?

[Bisonfan1234]

Even if UND should decide they want to play us...i don't think NDSU is going to play you guys. We'll be D1AA and it probably wouldn't be wise to be playing D2 teams.

Maybe if you guys move up we can play again...but until then...good luck!

[tuggnutt]

Even if UND should decide they want to play us...i don't think NDSU is going to play you guys. We'll be D1AA and it probably wouldn't be wise to be playing D2 teams.

Maybe if you guys move up we can play again...but until then...good luck!

Why can't Bison people get it in their heads? They don't get a bid to the playoffs, in part, because they scheduled two D1-AA teams (which HURTS you according to the playoff selection criteria). But, even after that lesson, you think UND will schedule a D1-AA NDSU?? Why?? To hurt UND's playoff chances?? The offer must be VERY lucrative for UND to continue the rivalry in different divisions. UND is the one that has the most to lose in this. Why wouldn't NDSU want to play the games?? It's good for them and WILL NOT HURT THEIR PLAYOFF CHANCES (because they won't HAVE ANY the next four years).

[NDSU grad]

Umm, I think that's what Bison1234 was trying to say, but I agree with you also. The inane SOS index that DII employs makes it downright stupid to play a DI-AA. I can complain about NDSU not making the playoffs, but we had our shot at blew it with losses to you guys and SCSU. Just think about Catawba, a loss to a top 5 DI-AA and a loss to the co-champ of the conference, and they're not in. And don't get me started about IUP; that's the biggest shaft job ever in the history of DII playoffs. At any rate, I don't see much benefit to either school in continuing the rivalry until the Sioux move to DI-AA.

[WYOBISONMAN]

In the end it was not the D1AA games that kept us out of the playoffs, it was the losses in OT. Had we won either we would be in the playoffs. I don't think that NDSU got the shaft at all in the playoff selection process. We simply did not win enough games. The team that really got the shaft and the situation that totally defies all logic is the fact that Bently got in and IUP did not. That is the worst selection I have ever seen in the entire history of the D2 Playoffs. That one leaves me speechless.

[Verk62]

UND needs to play NDSU and they are a bunch of wimps if they don't. I played football at UND and think its weak that they would stop the rivalry over this BS. So you drop the Crookston game and play NDSU each year, if your a good team you make the playoffs even if you lose the game. The Scholarship issue is crap as well, you can still compete and even win (NDSU did it this year) NDSU missed the playoffs because they choked against SCSU not because they played Montana and UC Davis.

[PCM]

Listening to Dale Lennon on the Sioux coaches show Wednesday night, he didn't sound very optimistic that UND would play NDSU next season. He is, however, keeping his options open until the season is over.

All the talk focused on how the Bison loss to UC-Davis really hurt their chance to make the playoffs and how their win against Montana did little to help them. As Lennon and Hennessy described the DII playoff selection criteria, I don't know how anyone could reasonably conclude that NDSU's loss to UC-Davis didn't severely hurt the team's playoff chances.

Hennessy made the best point a couple days ago on his morning talk show. If, he asked, at the end of next season, playing NDSU kept UND out of the playoffs, how many Sioux fans would think that agreeing to play the Bison was a good idea?

[Verk62]

My point is this if you lose to the Bison (which may or may not happen) you will still make the playoffs if you beat the other teams you play in conference. NDSU would be in, if they beat SCSU. Because both Pitt State and Emporia lost.

If the team is good, and you have some confidence in the consistency of the program. You would not let this amazing tradition die.

[Hansel]

Listening to Dale Lennon on the Sioux coaches show Wednesday night, he didn't sound very optimistic that UND would play NDSU next season. He is, however, keeping his options open until the season is over.

All the talk focused on how the Bison loss to UC-Davis really hurt their chance to make the playoffs and how their win against Montana did little to help them. As Lennon and Hennessy described the DII playoff selection criteria, I don't know how anyone could reasonably conclude that NDSU's loss to UC-Davis didn't severely hurt the team's playoff chances.

Hennessy made the best point a couple days ago on his morning talk show. If, he asked, at the end of next season, playing NDSU kept UND out of the playoffs, how many Sioux fans would think that agreeing to play the Bison was a good idea?

The loss to UCD and even the win against Montana hurt our strength of schedule index. However how the SSI is calculated changes from year to year. Last year a win or loss against a D1AA team was worth about as much as a win or loss against a +.750 D2 team. This year a win against a D1AA school counted as much as losing to a +.700 D2 school on the road and loss about the same as a loss to a +.500 D2. The rules weren't published this year until Sept 03 ( a little too late to change schedules, whether the rules were known but not published before then I don't know). I think how the SSI is calculated would probably have to change before RT would consider playing SU also the fact that the next game would probably be at the Fargodome doesn't excite RT too much

[PCM]

I am no expert on the DII selection process, but if I understood Lennon and Hennessy correctly, all the teams in the NCC knew the selection criteria before drawing up their schedules.

UND received twice as many points for beating UM-Crookston as NDSU received for beating Montana. Is that fair? Probably not. But NDSU gambled and lost.

It's easy at this point to say that playing NDSU next season won't affect UND's playoff chances, but it's clear that the possibility exists. If UND's goal is to win national championships, why would you agree to play a game that doesn't help you if you win and cripples your playoff chances if you lose?

[Hansel]

I am no expert on the DII selection process, but if I understood Lennon and Hennessy correctly, all the teams in the NCC knew the selection criteria before drawing up their schedules.

UND received twice as many points for beating UM-Crookston as NDSU received for beating Montana. Is that fair? Probably not.

UND received 9 points for the UMC win while NDSU got 8 for beating montana. The Davis game was a home and home contract scheduled at over a year ago, as was UND vs Mesa, and I think the UND vs UMC was a 3 year contract so without buying out the contract which is pretty rare (NDSU versus Moorhead) both teams were stuck with what they had. The montana and newberry games are where you may be right as I don't know when they were scheduled I'd like to see a game next year, but if UND doesn't want to play as it may hurt their playoff chances that's fine too.

[PCM]

I could've sworn that Hennessy or Lennon said that NDSU received only 4 points for beating Montana.

[Hansel]

I could've sworn that Hennessy or Lennon said that NDSU received only 4 points for beating Montana.

If they did they are mistaken

http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/foot...d2_football.pdf

Win versus a team from a Division I or Division I-AA automatic-qualifying

conference, or a Division I-AA independent opponent

[The Sicatoka]

(From the link)

The strength-of-schedule index is calculated as follows:

Win versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than or equal to .700 on the road

[PCM]

Now that I see the Sicatoka's post, I think what Lennon and Hennessy probably said last night was that a UND win over NDSU next season would only give UND 4 points as opposed to the 9 points received for beating UM-Crookston.

[Brent_Bobyck]

Even if UND should decide they want to play us...i don't think NDSU is going to play you guys. We'll be D1AA and it probably wouldn't be wise to be playing D2 teams.

Maybe if you guys move up we can play again...but until then...good luck!

UND playing NDSU should be the least of your worries. What would worry me the most, if I were a Bison fan, is the amount of losses you will endure in the next few years. Even if you do have a good season, no playoffs. Not a good scenerio.

[Hansel]

Now that I see the Sicatoka's post, I think what Lennon and Hennessy probably said last night was that a UND win over NDSU next season would only give UND 4 points as opposed to the 9 points received for beating UM-Crookston.

I could be wrong, but I beleive NDSU would be counted as a D1AA independent because it is not a team from a non-automatic qualifying conference. I think that's how the game against UCD was calculated. (RD17 who frequents this board is the numbers guy, I would ask him). Either way playing IAA doesn't help you if your a D2 team. I think it was in NDSU's interest this year to play IAA's to prepare us for the future. However, if UND wants to stay d2 and not want to play us that is fine.

[Bisonfan1234]

(From the link)

The strength-of-schedule index is calculated as follows:

Win versus a Division II opponent with a record greater than or equal to .700 on the road

[lawkota]

The ridiculous way in which SSI is calculated would, by itself, justify not scheduling a school such as SDSU or UNC (although I think they would be DIAA independents, not non-qualifying schools). Nevertheless, NDSU is different and I think maintaining the rivalry is worth the potential negative playoff implications.

Obviously the loss to UCD hurt the SSI for the Bison and they could look at that and say "we should have never scheduled that game". But funny, I've yet to hear or read that. Most Bison fans simply state had they taken care of business in the conference, the UCD loss wouldn't be an issue.

SSI is but one criteria that is looked at in determining playoff participants. With 6 teams making the playoffs from each region next year, I find it hard to imagine a scenario where the NCC champion did not make the playoffs, regardless of their nonconference record. Win the conference and the rest will take care of itself.

[CoteauRinkRat]

Why did NDSU's football team dump a gatorade bucket over Coach Bohl's head after their game on saturday?

[Bisonfan1234]

Why did NDSU's football team dump a gatorade bucket over Coach Bohl's head after their game on saturday?

Probably because it was the alst game of the season?

Nonetheless, i don't think our rivalry with UND is any more important that SDSU's with USD....and those two have decided it would be best not to play.

That is why i hope we don't play anymore.

[NDSU grad]

Why did NDSU's football team dump a gatorade bucket over Coach Bohl's head after their game on saturday?

That was kind of odd. Maybe in their hearts they knew it would be their final game of the season and it was kind of their way of thanking him. At any rate, it seems that the players respect Bohl and the coaching staff, which I'm not sure was the case under the old regime.

[CoteauRinkRat]

Probably because it was the alst game of the season?

really?

[Verk62]

I will call you flat ignorant if you don't think the Bison/Sioux game is extremely important for the schools and the state. It tells me that you have never been directly involved in the game.

[The Sicatoka]

'bisonfan1234' is incorrect when claiming:

You're wrong about UC-Davis.

You'll notice that it says that a win versis a D1AA qualifying **OR** an D1AA independent.

UC-Davis is a D1AA independent.

Thus, we got 6 points for that loss versus 1 point.

From the DII Handbook (right after that table):

Regarding the strength-of-schedule index, the following conferences have been granted automatic qualification for the 2003 NCAA Division I-AA Football Championship:

Atlantic 10 Conference

Big Sky Conference

Gateway Football Conference

Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference

Ohio Valley Conference

Patriot League

Southern Conference

Southland Conference

Please refer to the appendixes of the 2003 NCAA Division I-AA Football Championship Handbook for a complete list of the institutions that comprise each of these automatic-qualifying conferences, as well as a list of the Division I-AA independent football institutions.

Now if you go to the reference made, in the appendices, you see that Northern Colorado and UC-Davis are not DIAA tournament eligible (via qualified conference or qualified at-large, key work: qualified, meaning DIAA tourney eligible) and thus to a DII are only worth 4 points if you beat them or 1 point if you lose to them. NDSU will enter the same category next season.

[The Sicatoka]

One more thought:

If you don't like DII's formula method of tournament selection, here are the DIAA criteria for non-automatic qualifiers:

Championship Selection

At-large teams shall be selected by the Division I-AA Football Committee, assisted by four regional advisory committees that serve in an advisory capacity only.

The following principles shall apply when selecting at-large teams:

1. The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket;

2. There is no limit to the number of teams the committee may select from one conference;

3. The won-lost record of a team will be scrutinized to determine a team