so is this the start

[jedi]

Ha, so things like graduation rates don't matter? How about this: Forbes ranked both UND and NDSU, these supposed world-class universities, below 500 nationally.

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/university-of-north-dakota-ranked-as-579th-best-school-in-the-country/

But we never hear about these things, do we? We always hear about new buildings being built and record-breaking attendance.

By the way, my personal observations don't matter (and neither do yours) because they are mere anecdotes and not at all useful in a sound analysis based on facts.

In my experience, as an alum, the University of North Dakota has a solid reputation regionally. I have never, ever heard anyone with whom I have interacted professionally say either UND or NDSU is a mediocre school.

By the way, Mr. Port, are you on this message board to support UND or to spread your extreme conservative ideology? If its the latter, you really should stick to blogging.

[The Whistler]

In my experience, as an alum, the University of North Dakota has a solid reputation regionally. I have never, ever heard anyone with whom I have interacted professionally say either UND or NDSU is a mediocre school.

By the way, Mr. Port, are you on this message board to support UND or to spread your extreme conservative ideology? If its the latter, you really should stick to blogging.

We're supposed to support UND no matter what? Admittedly while politics are off limits there seems to be a gray area when political matters interact with our athletic teams which I believe this does.

In my opinion there's something rotten starting in Twamley Hall and it's up to the alumni to address it.

[RobPort]

In my experience, as an alum, the University of North Dakota has a solid reputation regionally. I have never, ever heard anyone with whom I have interacted professionally say either UND or NDSU is a mediocre school.

Right. And Pauline Kael didn't know anyone who voted for Nixon.

By the way, Mr. Port, are you on this message board to support UND or to spread your extreme conservative ideology? If its the latter, you really should stick to blogging.

Yeah, I'm a conservative, and how dare I have an opinion about how our universities are run, I guess.

But why do I care about supporting UND? I'd rather see all of these schools support themselves by selling a product (education) to students (customers) who need it. I know that sort of market-driven common sense is distasteful to those in the ivory tower, but subsidized higher education is heading for a big collapse.

[sf340flier]

Ha, so the taxpayers who pay the tuition and fees to go to the universities they own don't matter?

And are we not federal taxpayers too?

No need to get huffy with me. It's pretty clear you don't really understand the issue at hand. There are none so blind as those who will not see, and all that.

So here are the cliff notes:

1. You show up out of nowhere and have attempted to wrap your issue (privatize North Dakota colleges) into the intense dislike of the state board (which on these boards is mostly driven by their mishandling of the nickname).

2. You continually link to your blog over and over.

3. You lead everyone to believe that North Dakota taxpayers are funding $1.2 billion for higher education.

4. I ask you to source it, you link to your blog which quotes a politician.

5. I ask for a better source, you give me the governor's budget.

6. I read it and find that the actual North Dakota taxpayers are funding about half of the $1.2 billion.

7. You then tell me it's complicated, but give me another link which shows the budget to be $1.1 billion, of which only 29% is supported by North Dakota taxes.

8. You claim that tuition, fees and room/board are a form of taxation (I guess that's what you are saying) and should be included in the $1.2 billion figure.

9. You get mad when I point out you sure post your link back to your blog a lot.

I certainly could be wrong, but my guess is your readers will quickly realize that the "numbers" you like to cite are a little too "complicated" for their tastes.

By the way, I like the nickname, am conservative, and I hope the legislature ends up trumping the state board. As a reader of many other blogs, it's fair to say I won't be adding yours. Don't fret, as you have pointed out, it's a little too advanced for me...you should rely on more sophisticated readers.

Now, I'm going to go watch the Sioux kick some Pioneer ass!

[RobPort]

So here are the cliff notes:

1. You show up out of nowhere and have attempted to wrap your issue (privatize North Dakota colleges) into the intense dislike of the state board (which on these boards is mostly driven by their mishandling of the nickname).

2. You continually link to your blog over and over.

3. You lead everyone to believe that North Dakota taxpayers are funding $1.2 billion for higher education.

4. I ask you to source it, you link to your blog who quotes a politician.

5. I ask for a better source, you give me the governor's budget.

6. I read it and find that the actual North Dakota taxpayers are funding about half of the $1.2 billion.

7. You then tell me it's complicated, but give me another link which shows the budget to be $1.1 billion, of which only 29% is supported by North Dakota taxes.

8. You claim that tuition, fees and room/board are a form of taxation (I guess that's what you are saying) and should be included in the $1.2 billion figure.

9. You get mad when I point out you sure post your link back to your blog a lot.

I certainly could be wrong, but my guess is your readers will quickly realize that the "numbers" you like to cite are a little too "complicated" for their tastes.

By the way, I like the nickname, am conservative, and I hope the legislature ends up trumping the state board. As a reader of many other blogs, it's fair to say I won't be adding yours. Don't fret, as you have pointed out, it's a little too advanced for me...you should rely on more sophisticated readers.

Now, I'm going to go watch the Sioux kick some Pioneer ass!

I pointed out, accurately, that the universities have a budget of roughly $1.2 billion. This is what Rep. Dosch pointed out as well. Now, the last I checked, the universities existed to serve the people of North Dakota. That's why they were founded, and so the tuition and fees paid when you actually send your kids to the universities are a valid part of the equation.

As are the federal tax dollars we pay. Those things combined makes up the lion's share of that $1.2 billion.

I put the link to my blog in the signature because I kinda thought that's the sort of thing people do on forums. l link to my posts because I write about this stuff all the time, and my posts are in turn based on my sources. It's handy.

I hardly need the readership from this form, which gets about a fraction of the traffic SAB does. I came here because it seemed like folks were interested in this higher education issue, especially as it has manifested itself in this nickname fight.

Apparently I was wrong, and I'll bow out. Enjoy the game. I'm not even that much of a hockey fan, but I'm glad to see people waking up to the arrogance of the SBHE.

[Fetch]

Hey hang around - we need a political thinker to stand up to these (who are they too) UND Admin. defenders

It's the SBOHE who has put themselves in a bad light

[jedi]

Right. And Pauline Kael didn't know anyone who voted for Nixon.

Yeah, I'm a conservative, and how dare I have an opinion about how our universities are run, I guess.

But why do I care about supporting UND? I'd rather see all of these schools support themselves by selling a product (education) to students (customers) who need it. I know that sort of market-driven common sense is distasteful to those in the ivory tower, but subsidized higher education is heading for a big collapse.

True story, believe it or not. Also, I am pretty sure the people who put together the Forbes rankings you cited don't do a lot of hiring. The only thing that matters is what employers think of UND. In my experience as a UND alum, people think UND is a solid school.

Your comments about supporting UND show that you are obviously on this board to spout off your extreme conservative agenda. I'm not against healthy criticism of the university, but your BS crusade against state funding of higher education is better left on your blog.

[coach daddy]

You don't think there might be anything wrong with the test?

I do think there is something wrong the test; and guess who writes the test...............the so-called teacher.

[coach daddy]

True story, believe it or not. Also, I am pretty sure the people who put together the Forbes rankings you cited don't do a lot of hiring. The only thing that matters is what employers think of UND. In my experience as a UND alum, people think UND is a solid school.

Your comments about supporting UND show that you are obviously on this board to spout off your extreme conservative agenda. I'm not against healthy criticism of the university, but your BS crusade against state funding of higher education is better left on your blog.

Ignore them Mr. Port. You'll quickly find that facts only interest those who may not yet have an opinion or open-minded enough to change their mind. That rarely happens here.

[lomackman]

In June 2006 the ND Board of higher education voted 8-0 to authorize a lawsuit challenging the NCAA's position on the Fighting Sioux nickname. They made it clear that this would be funded exclusively with donated funds. Many of us responded--$885,000 was raised.

Rather than supporting the lawsuit, or even the settlement agreement, the board made a 180 degree switch in their position--totally betraying those who, in good faith, contributed to the lawsuit THEY authorized.

To cap it off, the board president testifies before the senate committee that the nickname bill should be defeated, claiming that THE STATE has already spent over $800,000 litigating this issue.

I'm not sure that dissolving the SBoHE is a good idea. Recent actions of the current board, however, have been disgraceful. Donors to the litigation fund have every reason to be outraged by the board's betrayal, and all of us should be concerned about the board president's misleading testimony.

Disgraceful only because you did not get your way. If they had gone the other way you would be singing their praises. Why are all of you not calling for the AG's head, he made the deal you hate.

[The Whistler]

Disgraceful only because you did not get your way. If they had gone the other way you would be singing their praises. Why are all of you not calling for the AG's head, he made the deal you hate.

He made the deal only with consultation and approval from the Board of Higher Education. While I do blame him and did not vote for him for reelection I think the blame still goes to the Board of Higher Education who certainly had final say.

[SooToo]

He made the deal only with consultation and approval from the Board of Higher Education. While I do blame him and did not vote for him for reelection I think the blame still goes to the Board of Higher Education who certainly had final say.

So you blame the client for accepting the formal recommendation of its legal counsel? Bit of a stretch, even if you're looking to rationalize your anger, don't you think?

As I understood things, Stenehjem and the outside attorneys who formally worked on this case, concluded they couldn't win the suit and recommended a settlement they felt was the best they could obtain. I think they're open to severe criticism just as soon as someone works out a better one. Three years to get approval from the namesake tribe(s) (just for CAS). I've read nickname-only supporters say we should "let it play out" longer. How many more years will it take? I've read that the NCAA "caved" to Florida due to political pressure in Washington, yet they've got essentially the same deal we have. The lawsuit was lost when the NCAA membership reaffirmed the executive council's authority to make silly rules like this about mascots/logos and other issues that have precious little to do with sports. Neither you nor I have to like it to recognize the reality. The law passed by the legislature, I believe, does nothing to change that.

[Fetch]

both Tribes was the mistake - & the fact they over looked that the one had given us prior approval & were being held hostage by their current council

& the SBOHE wanted it done too soon because of the stupid Summit League & they hired Kelly & Faison to shove that down our throats

ALL THIS HAS BEEN SAID BEFORE

Who are you people ? ? ?

What is your purpose / goal here ?

[lomackman]

both Tribes was the mistake - & the fact they over looked that the one had given us prior approval & were being held hostage by their current council

& the SBOHE wanted it done too soon because of the stupid Summit League & they hired Kelly & Faison to shove that down our throats

ALL THIS HAS BEEN SAID BEFORE

Who are you people ? ? ?

What is your purpose / goal here ?

The problem is the people you say gave approval had no authority to give approval.

[Fetch]

I believe at the time they did

So to take it away let the people vote

what's your interest in this ?

[Goon]

While I do blame him and did not vote for him for reelection I think the blame still goes to the Board of Higher Education who certainly had final say.

I voted for the democrat that was running against him and I can't even remember her name. I just threw up a little in my mouth remembering that.

[lomackman]

I believe at the time they did

So to take it away let the people vote

what's your interest in this ?

What you believe is wrong. The people have voted for the council members who made the decision it is called representation. My interest is no different than yours. If you are so concerned about letting people vote where were you when Benson County closed the polling location on Spirit Lake?

[The Whistler]

I voted for the democrat that was running against him and I can't even remember her name. I just threw up a little in my mouth remembering that.

I wrote in a lawyer I know.

[The Whistler]

What you believe is wrong. The people have voted for the council members who made the decision it is called representation. My interest is no different than yours. If you are so concerned about letting people vote where were you when Benson County closed the polling location on Spirit Lake?

Just a clarification. Benson county went to voting by mail, something I disapprove of by the way. All residents of the county had the choice of voting by mail or voting in person at the county seat.

Treating everyone equally is bad now.

[lomackman]

Just a clarification. Benson county went to voting by mail, something I disapprove of by the way. All residents of the county had the choice of voting by mail or voting in person at the county seat.

Treating everyone equally is bad now.

I did not hear you complaining though.

[The Whistler]

I did not hear you complaining though.

I didn't see the law going through the last session. If I had I would have written that I disagreed with the idea of voting by mail.

In this case we did cover the Benson County controversy on Say Anything. I believe we covered it better than most of the newspapers. My opinion was that even though I disagreed with the vote by mail scheme I thought that everyone in the county must be treated the same whether or not they were Indians. The Democrats disagreed and even took it to court to give the Indians greater voting access than the rest of the county.

That's just wrong.