Back to Memorial Stadium

[82SiouxGuy]

My first thought is that I would LOVE to see a move back to Memorial Stadium. I have always felt very strongly that football is a game meant to be played outdoors, but I have to question why anybody thinks weather could be an issue. The way I see it, if Green Bay Packer fans can endure the subzero temps. for a playoff game in January then why can't North Dakota fans go out and brave the elements in November when the temps. are in the 20's and 30's? Are we that soft? I think the Alerus Center is a great place for Grand Forks to have for hosting concerts and other various events, but it sucks for football. Bring on the Memorial Stadium renovation and treat us to some cold weather playoff games, the sooner the better.

People think that weather is an issue because it has proven to be an issue far more often than it is not an issue. The Packers are the exception to the rule. In most places attendance decreases with moisture falling and with lower temperatures. There is no guarantee that UND fans would stay away from the stadium during inclement weather. But they have almost every time over the years, so it is a pretty good bet that the trend would continue. Attendance is down at the Alerus Center when the weather is bad, so I wouldn't expect those people to show up for an outdoor game.

Edit: One other factor in lower attendance at UND games versus Packer games is the fact that UND games are much more of a family event. Most of the crowd at Packer and other NFL games are adults. There aren't a lot of kids at games when it is below zero. Much of the crowd at UND games is kids and family. You are gong to lose a lot of them for outdoor games during bad weather.

[GeauxSioux]

I missed something...Who is Mr. F??

Dave Fennell...aka Doctor Death. ...Mining mogul.

[GeauxSioux]

Does anyone know the approximate count of students attending football games at the Alerus? I'm still of the mind that student attendance would increase if the games were brought back to campus. Although the Alerus is not that far off campus, I think marketing for the game would be a lot easier on campus.

The best year at Memorial had an average of 9,150 in 1976 when the enrollment at UND was just under 8,900. UND's enrollment has grown 40% since then. Grand Forks has grown as well.

[82SiouxGuy]

Does anyone know the approximate count of students attending football games at the Alerus? I'm still of the mind that student attendance would increase if the games were brought back to campus. Although the Alerus is not that far off campus, I think marketing for the game would be a lot easier on campus.

The best year at Memorial had an average of 9,150 in 1976 when the enrollment at UND was just under 8,900. UND's enrollment has grown 40% since then. Grand Forks has grown as well.

Student attendance was very poor this past year. My seats are in the section next to the students so I get a good look at the actual numbers. My guess is that it was in the hundreds for an average, and was really poor after the Sioux Falls game. In past years student attendance was very good. I believe that they have 2 sections devoted to students. My guess is that there were 1,200-1,500 for a lot of games, probably more for the big games and less for some of the weaker opponents. And student attendance was way down for playoff games since they had to pay for those games, plus they were not allowed to sit in the sections behind the opponents bench during the playoffs.

The one constant for student attendance between the Alerus Center and Memorial Stadium is that for most games, the number of students in attendance for the 2nd half of games was much smaller than the number of students in attendance for the 1st half of the same games. I'm not sure where the students go , but they must have a lot of home work that needs to be done.

[UNDvince97-01]

The best year at Memorial had an average of 9,150 in 1976 when the enrollment at UND was just under 8,900. UND's enrollment has grown 40% since then. Grand Forks has grown as well.

I'd be interested in knowing what the average attendance was in 2000, the final season at Memorial Stadium prior to the move to The Alerus in 2001.

[GeauxSioux]

I'd be interested in knowing what the average attendance was in 2000, the final season at Memorial Stadium prior to the move to The Alerus in 2001.

The final year at Memorial...

Central Washington...................... 4210

UM Crookston (Potato Bowl).... 10,402

South Dakota .............................. 9,625

Morningside (Homecoming) ... 8,254

Augustana .................................... 9,695

The Augie game was played on October 28, 2000. Average was 8,437

[UNDvince97-01]

The final year at Memorial...

Central Washington...................... 4210

UM Crookston (Potato Bowl).... 10,402

South Dakota .............................. 9,625

Morningside (Homecoming) ... 8,254

Augustana .................................... 9,695

The Augie game was played on October 28, 2000. Average was 8,437

The Central Washington game that year was in a heavy downpour all day. 1st game of the year too. Basically cut the attendance in half.

The Augie game had playoff indications and was the LAST GAME EVER played at Memorial Stadium. Disappointing. Both in outcome and fan support.

[GeauxSioux]

The Central Washington game that year was in a heavy downpour all day. 1st game of the year too. Basically cut the attendance in half.

The Augie game had playoff indications and was the LAST GAME EVER played at Memorial Stadium. Disappointing. Both in outcome and fan support.

Oops, I missed the SDSU game. UND had 6 home games that year. Unfortunately, there is no stats for that game.

[82SiouxGuy]

Fair enough, but we don't get the extremely bitterly cold weather till December/January. I don"t understand why people can"t tolerate moderately cold weather in November for a playoff game. Temps in the 20's and 30's are not all that bad.

The temperature isn't always the problem. The problem is often falling moisture and/or wind when combined with the colder temperatures. 35 degrees with falling rain, or 30 degrees with a 25 mph wind from the north are both very unpleasant experiences for 3 hours. In some ways they can be more unpleasant than 10 degrees with falling snow (as long as the wind isn't blowing). Most people like to be comfortable and many would rather not expose themselves to extreme weather experiences if they can avoid them.

[UND92,96]

Oops, I missed the SDSU game. UND had 6 home games that year. Unfortunately, there is no stats for that game.

9763, per SDSU web page.

[GeauxSioux]

9763, per SDSU web page.

Thanks. 8658 average for the season.

[bincitysioux]

I like the Alerus...................

I'm hardcore, and would be there no matter where the games were played...........but I'd think twice about hauling my little kids 100+ miles for a football game in November when it is snowing, sleeteing, and blowing outside.

I think people are down on the Alerus the last couple seasons, but IMO attendance issues aren't tied to the venue so much in this case...................I wasn't there in for the 2001 playoff run, but I was for the 2003 playoff run........................nobody will ever convince me that Memorial would have provided a better atmosphere during those LOUD playoff games against North Alabama, Pitt St., and GV than the Alerus did.

WIN....................and they will come!

[GeauxSioux]

They seem to do quite well with attendance at Montana with an outdoor stadium. Pulling together data from a couple of different websites, it seems that the average highs and lows for Grand Forks and Missoula are almost the same in October. In November GF is about 6 degree colder for both the highs and the lows.. I don't know how much wind they get in Missoula, which would make a difference.

[PartTime]

Does anyone know the approximate count of students attending football games at the Alerus? I'm still of the mind that student attendance would increase if the games were brought back to campus. Although the Alerus is not that far off campus, I think marketing for the game would be a lot easier on campus.

The best year at Memorial had an average of 9,150 in 1976 when the enrollment at UND was just under 8,900. UND's enrollment has grown 40% since then. Grand Forks has grown as well.

I myself would love to see football back on campus and I agree with you that student attendance would also increase, but, in doing so, I feel you would lose the climate controlled fans. Would it be a wash? not sure, but if I remember correctly, when the games use to be played at Memorial Stadium, the students stuck around a little longer and didn't bolt at halftime.

[UND92,96]

Feel free to add...

Alerus

pro's

-climate-controlled which encourages attendance by the oldest and youngest of fans in particular

-impressive to recruits, particularly from warm weather regions who may be less-than-enthusiastic about playing outdoors in late Oct. and Nov.

-increased noise factor which can greatly aid defense

-"dead air" which gain be draining to team unaccustomed to it

-beer can be sold and concessions in general are probably considerably higher than what they would be at Memorial

con's

-off-campus

-not readily expandable should that become necessary

-turf which needs to be easily removable (precludes use of field turf?)

-some purists just don't like indoor football

-revenue shared with city

Memorial

pro's

-on campus

-tradition

-field turf

-elements can be big advantage against teams unaccustomed to wind/cold weather

-keep all revenue

-more easily expandable than Alerus

con's

-would require major renovations (seating, rest rooms, concessions, press box, etc.)

-weather can be a big problem for attendance later in season or even early in the season if it's raining (see Central Washington game in 2000 as example)

-likely a recruiting drawback for kids from south and west in particular

-no beer sales allowed for state-owned facility--concession revenue likely takes big hit

-less parking? (perhaps new ramp has alleviated this?)

[Hansel]

They seem to do quite well with attendance at Montana with an outdoor stadium. Pulling together data from a couple of different websites, it seems that the average highs and lows for Grand Forks and Missoula are almost the same in October. In November GF is about 6 degree colder for both the highs and the lows.. I don't know how much wind they get in Missoula, which would make a difference.

Along with being less windy, Missoula also gets a lot more sunshine than does GF in the fall.

[GeauxSioux]

Along with being less windy, Missoula also gets a lot more sunshine than does GF in the fall.

Not according to these two tables. They actually show the opposite to be true, minimally. I had to use Fargo, as they didn't list GF....

Missoula

Fargo

These tables do show the wind. 5 mph for Missoula and 12.5 mph for Fargo.

[82SiouxGuy]

They seem to do quite well with attendance at Montana with an outdoor stadium. Pulling together data from a couple of different websites, it seems that the average highs and lows for Grand Forks and Missoula are almost the same in October. In November GF is about 6 degree colder for both the highs and the lows.. I don't know how much wind they get in Missoula, which would make a difference.

I don't know about Missoula, but Grand Forks weather changes a lot in October. The average high during the first week is probably much higher than the average high during the last week. It is definitely a transition month during most years. But the weather in October varies greatly from year to year. I would say that the biggest challenge for attendance would be from about October 15th through the end of the season during most years. Some years you could have decent weather and attendance could be good. Other years you could have early snow storms and have to fight cold and snow for almost a month.

[star2city]

In another thread, I had suggested that Memorial Stadium could be refurbished in the future for UND to qualify from a stadium capacity issue for FBS. It would take tens of millions for any decent level of refurbishment to allow UND to move back to Memorial even for the FCS level. Memorial as is is a relic of days gone by, and no longer presents modern-day fans or the media with the experience they desire nor the money-making opportunities for the athletic department.

As a minimum, these are needed:

- Outdoor video big screen scoreboard for replays and advertising.

- Other advertising options / screens

- Built-in television broadcast capability, new speaker system

- Removal of track oval (which means new oval gets built elsewhere, which is in the long-term plans, which also means a second parking ramp must be built)

- New field turf shifted to west, closer to main stands

- Major gutting/renovation of main stands, rest rooms, concessions, press box, locker rooms

- Chair back seating

- New east stands incorporated into proposed practice facility, with concessions, rest rooms, etc

- Optional - new stands on north side end zone to provide semi-enclosure

Is it possible? Yes. But with a $40 or $50 million donation (if not more)

Even then, later games would still need to be at the Alerus for good crowds.

Missoula at 0 F feels like Grand Forks at 25 F. The altitude, humidity, and wind don't compare!

As far as the Packers, tickets are in such demand at Green Bay. A modified crowd (younger, with less money, who bought or received tickets for cold games) goes to late games there.

If the Vikings went back to an outdoors stadium, the tolerance of the fan base for cold, miserable weather has probably changed so much that cold weather games would have half-empty stands, even if the game was sold out.

[GeauxSioux]

I nominate Star to be in charge of fund raising.

I see that Cargill just doubled their profits in the fourth quarter. May be a good time to hit up UND alum and CEO Greg Page.

Edited August 18, 2010 by GeauxSioux

[star2city]

I nominate Star to be in charge of fund raising.

$40 mill would be a piece of cake! ...

Forgot about the suites that would be needed too!

But, seriously, that kind of money wouldn't be expended on any University project unless it had long-term dividends: like an FBS stadium. Another option is adding 4000 seat to the south end of the Alerus.

TCU just announced a major renovation of their stadium to give it all the modern amenities, but yet give it an old-time feel, all for just $105 mill.

TCU's big plans for Amon Carter Stadium

What's really amazing is that Regina, Saskatchewan - a relatively small city - is seriously considering building a 33,000 seat retractable domed stadium for their Roughriders. Cost will only be $386 mill, with $44 million additional for a retractable roof.

Regina waiting to hear from Feds on Stadium funding

[MplsBison]

I guess I don't get the "retractable roof" fad. You're basically playing in a can of beans with the top removed...it's not and will never be anything close to the feel of a real open-air, outdoor stadium. If you want to host events, bball tournaments, etc. then just build a dome.

The only solution I've ever seen proposed that might actually be able to provide a legitimate conversion from a true open-air, outdoor stadium to a fully enclosed stadium was the original proposal in Kansas City for the Royals and Chiefs stadiums that would've had a moving roof that would be on a track and actually move back and forth to cover either stadium when needed. That really would've been something. I think they tried again to build that recently but it failed.

[UNDvince97-01]

What's really amazing is that Regina, Saskatchewan - a relatively small city - is seriously considering building a 33,000 seat retractable domed stadium for their Roughriders. Cost will only be $386 mill, with $44 million additional for a retractable roof.

The Dr. Death Retractable Roof at Memorial Stadium......

[GeauxSioux]

So would attendance have been better, worse or about the same this past weekend, if the Sioux had played outdoors at Memorial? If you read the Cover it Live of the game, there is talk that this past Saturday would have been a good day to be outside.

Comment from iluvtommy

any chance of there ever being outdoor football again, today is a perfect day for football....outside

Tom Miller:

Today is definitely the kind of day that makes you want Memorial Stadium back

I appreciate the fact that I was able to watch the game over the internet and wouldn't have been able to watch the game now with games at Memorial, as there would need to work done to broadcast from there. Still, I hope that there is a day when UND football is back outside.

GO SIOUX! BEAT THE YOTES!!

[UND92,96]

So would attendance have been better, worse or about the same this past weekend, if the Sioux had played outdoors at Memorial? If you read the Cover it Live of the game, there is talk that this past Saturday would have been a good day to be outside.

Comment from iluvtommy

Tom Miller:

I appreciate the fact that I was able to watch the game over the internet and wouldn't have been able to watch the game now with games at Memorial, as there would need to work done to broadcast from there. Still, I hope that there is a day when the UND football is back outside.

GO SIOUX! BEAT THE YOTES!!

I honestly don't believe that playing outside would have had any significant impact on attendance this past Saturday. It used to be that early season games drew well regardless of the opponent. Apparently that has now changed. The only explanation I've heard that may hold some merit is that the loss against Sioux Falls, and to a lesser extent the terrible performance in the home finale against Southern Oregon last year, destroyed interest of the non-hardcore fans. I believe interest will return, but it's probably going to take a big win or two against a quality opponent to undo the damage done last year. I'm not excusing the fan apathy by any means, as it baffles me what the thousands of people who wouldn't dream of missing an exhibition hockey game against Manitoba are doing on a home football Saturday, since they're clearly not at the games.