soohockey15 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 In Goon's defense I'll say this: If Pohlad was in charge of the Vikings, there's NO F-ING WAY the Vikes would have signed Berrian nor would they have ever been able to land Allen. They aren't used up has beens. If anything, the Pohlads would have had all of the 36+ year old WRs and DEs come line up and give their lowest salary offers. Signed the best of the two cheapest and there ya go. Again, baseball and football are two completely, completely different things when it comes to free agency. Your example is so wrong I don't know where to begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Again, baseball and football are two completely, completely different things when it comes to free agency. Your example is so wrong I don't know where to begin. You are right and wrong, but without question you are making this more complicated than it needs to be. NFL has a cap, MLB doesn't. Revenue sharing a completely different. Bottom line is money buys talent. If the Twins wanted to spend more, they would have more talent, but I realize they don't have the money like the Yankees. There are many NFL teams below the cap and are unwilling to spend. The Twins have less money than most MLB teams, but still have spent less than what they could have in a effort to save money over the years, thus getting less talent than they possibly could have. Owners willing to spend in either league provide a better talent pool for their teams and thus a better opportunity to win...period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soohockey15 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 You are right and wrong, but without question you are making this more complicated than it needs to be. NFL has a cap, MLB doesn't. Revenue sharing a completely different. Bottom line is money buys talent. If the Twins wanted to spend more, they would have more talent, but I realize they don't have the money like the Yankees. There are many NFL teams below the cap and are unwilling to spend. The Twins have less money than most MLB teams, but still have spent less than what they could have in a effort to save money over the years, thus getting less talent than they possibly could have. Owners willing to spend in either league provide a better talent pool for their teams and thus a better opportunity to win...period. I agreed with you up until your last point. Spending money doesn't always give teams a better opportunity to win. An example is the San Francisco Giants. They signed a bunch of free agents and were terrible. Same with the Dodgers. They went out and got Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre, but by the end of the season both those guys were on the bench the young guys were plalying, and they ended up winning the division and losing in the NLCS. Its one thing to go out and spend on players just because you want a big name. This is what seemingly every Twins fan wants, without realizing how much more value a replacement player can have (again, Blake vs Buscher/Harris). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I agreed with you up until your last point. Spending money doesn't always give teams a better opportunity to win. An example is the San Francisco Giants. They signed a bunch of free agents and were terrible. Same with the Dodgers. They went out and got Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre, but by the end of the season both those guys were on the bench the young guys were plalying, and they ended up winning the division and losing in the NLCS. Its one thing to go out and spend on players just because you want a big name. This is what seemingly every Twins fan wants, without realizing how much more value a replacement player can have (again, Blake vs Buscher/Harris). Correct. There will always be FA busts in any pro league, but by and large NOT spending money is generally a sure way of having a less talented roster. Was B. Berrian a great sign...not really for the money, but he was an upgrade at WR. Was Andruw Jones a great sign...hardly, but based on numbers who would have thought he would have tanked that bad? FA is a risk, but the main difference between MLB and NFL is the guarenteed contracts. And the fact that there is not an industry of more overpayed employees than MLB, so from that standpoint FA is more of a crap shoot in MLB. But when fans know ownership isn't spending $$ when they could, the fans suffer as does the rest of the players on that team as their overall talent COULD be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 In Goon's defense I'll say this: If Pohlad was in charge of the Vikings, there's NO F-ING WAY the Vikes would have signed Berrian nor would they have ever been able to land Allen. They aren't used up has beens. If anything, the Pohlads would have had all of the 36+ year old WRs and DEs come line up and give their lowest salary offers. Signed the best of the two cheapest and there ya go. That was what I was getting at. Look at some of the crappy picthers they have put on the field lately. That is why I don't get so charged up about the twins anymore. As an organization they suck. Wait till they open that new ball park and after a few years still are putting has been squads on the fields their stadium will be half empty. The Viking are trying to put a decent squad on the field, I get what they are doing. They have to pull the plug on T-Jac he is an absolute joke. The guy can't see down field and he can't read defenses when he is under fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherz Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 OU just broke my heart. Thank god Gopher bball won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I agreed with you up until your last point. Spending money doesn't always give teams a better opportunity to win.Right, but the Yankees are selling a lot of tickets sold during the off-season. THAT is what spending money like the proverbial drunken sailor accomplishes in (non-capped) baseball. Every Yankee fan has optimism. The D-Rays didn't even start selling out their stadium last year until August, and this year's small-market surprise team will be in the same boat. Spending money: more than half of the teams in the NFL are about in the same boat (signing bonuses, etc. can allow some teams a temporary advantage) in terms of payroll, but people like Parcells, Bellechick, the Pittsburgh organization certainly seem to get a lot of bang for their buck. OTOH, the Raiders and Lions seem to be stuck in the mud. The old 80-10-10 rule applies IMHO. Parcells and Cowher and a few others are in the top 10%, there's a lot of people in the middle; and the Davis and Ford people are counterproductive. Personally, I'd say that most fans are aware of the differences between the sports (if nothing else on a subconcious level). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 OU just broke my heart. Thank god Gopher bball won. Comon! You didn't submit to the ESPN-led Tebow love fest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Comon! You didn't submit to the ESPN-led Tebow love fest? So you despise Favre and now Tebow. Are you anti-leaders? You must just like the athletes that run their mouths and then don't produce? These 2 guys are arguably 2 of the best leaders ever in their respected arenas: pro and college FB. So there is a reason they get more press and love from the media. In 3 years at UF, Tebow has 2 NC's, 2 Maxwell's and a Heisman. Not to mention he is even a better person than an athlete!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 So you despise Favre and now Tebow. Are you anti-leaders? You must just like the athletes that run their mouths and then don't produce? These 2 guys are arguably 2 of the best leaders ever in their respected arenas: pro and college FB. So there is a reason they get more press and love from the media. In 3 years at UF, Tebow has 2 NC's, 2 Maxwell's and a Heisman. Not to mention he is even a better person than an athlete!! No, I dislike Tebow not as a person, but as an entity if you will. ESPN drooled over Tebow (much like they drool over Favre) and yet Bradford, despite his lack luster game, is overall a better NFL QB Prospect that Tebow is. In fact, theres a lot of doubt of Tebow being drafted as a QB at all. More than likely, he'll play in the NFL at TE. He's a bible-thumper. Nothing wrong with that. Good for him. He's a good person. I'm sure he is. But he's also SEC, which means that ESPN has a perpectual hardon for him. That means that his hype is always going to be higher without the accolades than his non-SEC opponent because ESPN enjoys cheerleading the SEC and big schools like Florida and USC. I don't enjoy players who run their mouths. I hope Adam Pacman Jones has a solid WWE career. I hope TO cries his way into oblivion. And I don't like Favre because he takes pleasure in jerking everyone around and ESPN not only gives him a free pass for it, but they apologize for him whenever he sucks it up on the field. Is he a great QB? Yes. Is he hall of fame material? First ballot induction, I'd say. But is he as worship-worthy as ESPN makes him out to be? ABSOLUTELY NOT. So, no, I don't dislike Tebow for who he is as a person. I dislike Tebow because of what ESPN has made him out to represent. I don't like Favre because he jerks people around. And I despise ESPN because they provide whatever we don't need: Bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 And I despise ESPN because they provide whatever we don't need: Bias. And that is different than MSNBC/CNN and their drooling over the Prez elect? At least Favre and Tebow have a resume! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 The Vikings are the Cubs of football. That's just the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 The Vikings are the Cubs of football. That's just the way it is. I don't know about this. Lately, maybe. Historically, not really. The Cubs lately have built teams that, on paper, were pretty solid with only performance-based question marks to point the way towards mediocrity or worse, choking. The Vikings have had glaring shortcomings on paper or otherwise since basically Grant stopped coaching and maybe before that. The Cubs have won it all a few times (well, at least once anyways). The Vikings have been to the Super Bowl 4 times and lost all of them. I don't understand what makes the Cubs so lovable and I'm a Cubs fan. A very cynical Cubs fan, but a Cubs fan nonetheless. The Vikings at least are more straight forward with the fans. They don't dominate for an entire season and then fold in the opening round of the playoffs like the Cubs did. I'd say the Vikings gave the Eagles at least some trouble. The Cubs gave the Dodgers not a single iota of stress. And that is different than MSNBC/CNN and their drooling over the Prez elect? At least Favre and Tebow have a resume! No different. But then again, I don't watch the news. Bias is a way of life for all National News stations, not just MSNBC or even CNN. FoxNews is biased too. They all are. News on the national scale can no longer be trusted. Favre has a resume. Tebow, we don't know yet. Eric Crouch and Ryan Leaf had resumes too and what did it do for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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