Brian Faison - from New Mexico St, new AD

[Hammersmith]

?? I think your still hallucinating from your time in Denver.

Heh heh. I know what he's referring to. About a year or two back, just after Bunning and Kupchella changed UND's stance on the rivalry and UND made the decision to go DI, Gene Taylor was being hounded by the Fargo media on why NDSU was not willing to schedule UND in 2007 or 2008. One of the reasons Taylor gave was that UND had an advantage because DII has lower academic requirements than DI. He said that time was needed to make sure any of these potential ineligible-for-DI student-athletes were aged out of the system. Or something to that effect.

While it is true that DI academic standards are higher than DII, I doubt that any UND student-athletes would fail to qualify under DI rules. Except the hockey players, of course. (that was a joke) I also doubt that Taylor feels any differently. I think he made that statement for three reasons. First, it happens to be the rationale for the four-year transition period. It was the reason given for why NDSU was not allowed into the playoffs even with a 10-1 season and no losses to I-AA opponents(remember, this was back in late '06/early '07). I suppose it was on his mind and he figured since that reason was used against NDSU, he might as well get some positive mileage out of it. Secondly, it was a bit of a tit-for-tat going back to comments made by Kupchella a couple years earlier regarding the low academic morals of DI. One of Kuppy's rationales for staying DII was the scandals that seem to plague major schools from time to time. It also referenced comments made by Roger Thomas when the rivalry was suspended about it not being a level playing field due to the scholarship differential. Finally, and I think this was the big one, Taylor knew it wasn't his decision to make, but he couldn't come right out and say it. It has been clear for quite some time that the decision to resume the rivalry rests solely in the hands of the presidents. Since Kuppy changed his mind, and Kelley seems to be for it, that leaves it all to Joe Chapman. Today that's fairly common knowledge, but back when Taylor made those comments it was still a poorly kept secret. I suppose Talyor had to give some kind of answer without just saying, "It's not my call. Go talk to my boss."

As far as the comments being slanderous to "thousands of UND student-athletes"; please. If you're stretching that far to find something to take offense at, just grab your blankie and go take a nap in the corner, 'cause you're getting cranky. Besides, I'm pretty sure it wasn't a press conference, just some comments made to Kolpack or Hallstrom during an interview(probably a phone interview).

On BisonSports.net's version of this thread, I posted a moderately-long timeline of how we got to this point from NDSU's perspective. I won't repost it here because it's too far off topic, but I will summarize my conclusions. Whether or not the rivalry will resume depends on Kelley's actions during the upcoming legislative session. A group of NDUS schools(led by NDSU) will be pushing to use most of the increase in higher-ed appropriations for funding equity, rather than parity. If Kelley and UND strongly opposes this move, the rivalry will continue to be on hold. If they work with the low-equity schools for a fair solution, expect to see the games start around 2010(+/- 1 year). Also, I wouldn't be surprised if NDSU proposes new doctoral degrees in biology and/or English to gauge reactions from the new Kelley administration(NDSU agreed not to pursue those for awhile back in 2003, when NDSU's doctorates in education were approved).

Of course, almost all of these are my suppositions based on available facts. I could easily be wrong on most, if not all of them. I don't think I am, but MplsBison is just as sure of his opinions and we can't both be right. Take all this with as big a grain of salt as you feel necessary.

[MplsBison]

UND athletic director has D-I historyFaison extends his hand and gets...Whatcha been smoking there, Gene?

It's quite obvious that Taylor himself did not say those things and that those words were the Forum's agenda.

You can see that Taylor's actual quotes are a bit more open than the Forum's added words.

For example, what Taylor actually said was:

"It depends on who you talk to," Taylor said. "I wouldn't say there's an overwhelming majority who want to see it renewed."

And then the Forum spun that into their own, added words:

Gene Taylor, the NDSU athletic director, said the Bison have no plans to play the Sioux in any sport. Some of the NDSU teams have no room in their schedules and there's not enough interest among fans and alumni in resuming the series, he said.

No he didn't say that.

Those were not the actual quotes used by him in print.

[GeauxSioux]

Heh heh. I know what he's referring to. About a year or two back, just after Bunning and Kupchella changed UND's stance on the rivalry and UND made the decision to go DI, Gene Taylor was being hounded by the Fargo media on why NDSU was not willing to schedule UND in 2007 or 2008. One of the reasons Taylor gave was that UND had an advantage because DII has lower academic requirements than DI. He said that time was needed to make sure any of these potential ineligible-for-DI student-athletes were aged out of the system. Or something to that effect.

While it is true that DI academic standards are higher than DII, I doubt that any UND student-athletes would fail to qualify under DI rules. Except the hockey players, of course. (that was a joke) I also doubt that Taylor feels any differently. I think he made that statement for three reasons. First, it happens to be the rationale for the four-year transition period. It was the reason given for why NDSU was not allowed into the playoffs even with a 10-1 season and no losses to I-AA opponents(remember, this was back in late '06/early '07). I suppose it was on his mind and he figured since that reason was used against NDSU, he might as well get some positive mileage out of it. Secondly, it was a bit of a tit-for-tat going back to comments made by Kupchella a couple years earlier regarding the low academic morals of DI. One of Kuppy's rationales for staying DII was the scandals that seem to plague major schools from time to time. It also referenced comments made by Roger Thomas when the rivalry was suspended about it not being a level playing field due to the scholarship differential. Finally, and I think this was the big one, Taylor knew it wasn't his decision to make, but he couldn't come right out and say it. It has been clear for quite some time that the decision to resume the rivalry rests solely in the hands of the presidents. Since Kuppy changed his mind, and Kelley seems to be for it, that leaves it all to Joe Chapman. Today that's fairly common knowledge, but back when Taylor made those comments it was still a poorly kept secret. I suppose Talyor had to give some kind of answer without just saying, "It's not my call. Go talk to my boss."

As far as the comments being slanderous to "thousands of UND student-athletes"; please. If you're stretching that far to find something to take offense at, just grab your blankie and go take a nap in the corner, 'cause you're getting cranky. Besides, I'm pretty sure it wasn't a press conference, just some comments made to Kolpack or Hallstrom during an interview(probably a phone interview).

On BisonSports.net's version of this thread, I posted a moderately-long timeline of how we got to this point from NDSU's perspective. I won't repost it here because it's too far off topic, but I will summarize my conclusions. Whether or not the rivalry will resume depends on Kelley's actions during the upcoming legislative session. A group of NDUS schools(led by NDSU) will be pushing to use most of the increase in higher-ed appropriations for funding equity, rather than parity. If Kelley and UND strongly opposes this move, the rivalry will continue to be on hold. If they work with the low-equity schools for a fair solution, expect to see the games start around 2010(+/- 1 year). Also, I wouldn't be surprised if NDSU proposes new doctoral degrees in biology and/or English to gauge reactions from the new Kelley administration(NDSU agreed not to pursue those for awhile back in 2003, when NDSU's doctorates in education were approved).

Of course, almost all of these are my suppositions based on available facts. I could easily be wrong on most, if not all of them. I don't think I am, but MplsBison is just as sure of his opinions and we can't both be right. Take all this with as big a grain of salt as you feel necessary.

I think the term extortion would be the one I would use here.

[Hammersmith]

I think the term extortion would be the one I would use here.

And I disagree. Funding equity was supposed to be a priority(1 of 4) since the Educational Roundtable was created at the beginning of the decade. Unfortunately, the only change in the matter was backwards. The initial plan was for 20% of any new monies to be allocated to equity and the remaining 80% to parity. The problem was there were no new monies. In fact, budgets decreased, which made the situation worse. The few attempts that were made to fix the problem were all opposed by Kupchella. At first, all attempts were made within the system. After 5+ years of no progress, some campus leaders(including Chapman) went outside the system for help. Agree or disagree with the methods, the problem did, and does, exist. Due to the large state surplus, there is finally enough money available to go a long way toward solving the equity problem. If Kelley were to oppose such an initiative, it would show that the cold war between the two campuses will continue. Supporting such an initiative can't be considered extortion if it's actually the right thing to do. Heck, UND would benefit from improved equity funding(percentage-wise, NDSU would benefit more, but UND might get more actual money). I know a few posters here think Chapman=evil, but the decline of relations began in 2003 and 2004 with the actions of Kupchella(two years before the Potts/Chapman firestorm).

As for the doctorates, that's really a guess on my part. I think NDSU has a goal of 20% graduate students. At the moment, the number is 14.2%. Clearly there's work to be done, and new graduate degrees will probably be a big part of it.

[MplsBison]

I think the term extortion would be the one I would use here.

Using the game as leverage to get something we were always supposed to have is not extortion.

[GeauxSioux]

Why is it whenever Joe does anything it's for the good of NDSU and what a strong leader he is, but whenever UND does anything, it's UND isn't supportive of the SBoHE and it's not fair?

After 5+ years of no progress, some campus leaders(including Chapman) went outside the system for help.

So in your book, unless Kelley does what Chapman wants, it's a "no go" for any athletic competition between the schools? If playing NDSU means that Kelley has to "kowtow" to Chapman, I hope he tells him to stick it.

And yes kowtow was used intentionally.

[MplsBison]

It's not as if UND is on top of the NDUS funding food chain.

You guys are getting screwed out of your fair share as well.

It's all those little bastards (Mayville ,etc.) that screw things up.

There should be no way that Kelley fights us on this. Especially when he came from a state where there was only one show in town (UW).

[82SiouxGuy]

The new AD is on the job.

[dlsiouxfan]

And I disagree. Funding equity was supposed to be a priority(1 of 4) since the Educational Roundtable was created at the beginning of the decade. Unfortunately, the only change in the matter was backwards. The initial plan was for 20% of any new monies to be allocated to equity and the remaining 80% to parity. The problem was there were no new monies. In fact, budgets decreased, which made the situation worse. The few attempts that were made to fix the problem were all opposed by Kupchella. At first, all attempts were made within the system. After 5+ years of no progress, some campus leaders(including Chapman) went outside the system for help. Agree or disagree with the methods, the problem did, and does, exist. Due to the large state surplus, there is finally enough money available to go a long way toward solving the equity problem. If Kelley were to oppose such an initiative, it would show that the cold war between the two campuses will continue. Supporting such an initiative can't be considered extortion if it's actually the right thing to do. Heck, UND would benefit from improved equity funding(percentage-wise, NDSU would benefit more, but UND might get more actual money). I know a few posters here think Chapman=evil, but the decline of relations began in 2003 and 2004 with the actions of Kupchella(two years before the Potts/Chapman firestorm).

As for the doctorates, that's really a guess on my part. I think NDSU has a goal of 20% graduate students. At the moment, the number is 14.2%. Clearly there's work to be done, and new graduate degrees will probably be a big part of it.

Seriously this a great use of revisionist history. Chapman has always been the president who couldn't work with the other university presidents. He was singled out as a cancer by both Dunn and Potts and there aren't a lot of kind words to be said about him in certain circles. Chapman's idea of cooperation is subordination to his agenda and I hope Kelley tells him where to stick it at the next legislative session. The political pressure to renew the rivalry will be too strong for Chapman to stand in a few years anyway so it's only a matter of time before the rivalry is renewed. In the meantime UND should just focus on doing what's best for UND and let the arrogant leaders at NDSU commit career suicide by standing in the way of future Sioux-Bison games.

[Bison Dan]

Seriously this a great use of revisionist history. Chapman has always been the president who couldn't work with the other university presidents. He was singled out as a cancer by both Dunn and Potts and there aren't a lot of kind words to be said about him in certain circles. Chapman's idea of cooperation is subordination to his agenda and I hope Kelley tells him where to stick it at the next legislative session. The political pressure to renew the rivalry will be too strong for Chapman to stand in a few years anyway so it's only a matter of time before the rivalry is renewed. In the meantime UND should just focus on doing what's best for UND and let the arrogant leaders at NDSU commit career suicide by standing in the way of future Sioux-Bison games.

What's the matter dlsiouxfan can't stand the facts so you make some of your own up?

[Sioux-cia]

What's the matter dlsiouxfan can't stand the facts so you make some of your own up?

What part of his post did dlsiouxfan make up?