jk

It's nice to add another prototypical UND defenseman to the program. I'll take this as confirmation that Matt Greene is on his way to bigger things, although that may not be official for a while. As to that gigantic list of freshmen, I'm a homer so of course I see good things this season. But I wouldn't blame an objective person if they looked at the list and predicted a rebuilding year. That's an awful lot of freshmen defensemen to be working into the WCHA.

A letter to the editor in the GF Herald: http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/n...al/12147092.htm "After we had everything loaded in the van, Dave made sure he was the first to sign a young Sioux fan's cast. What a class act. I hope Grand Forks and UND realizes what a great guy they have running the hockey program. He's a coach that every parent would want their kids to play for."

Should be drafted: Lee, Chorney, Jones, Oshie, Vandevelde Might be drafted: Watkins, Kozek ** Probably won't be drafted (some are too old): Toews (too young), Walski, Alexander, Miller, Duncan, Martens ** With the draft chopped to seven rounds from nine, some smaller guys from the lower (non-Major Junior) leagues in Canada might get squeezed out.

A few things about Greene's future: In some ways, the natural time for Greene to leave would have been after 2004. He was physically ready and apparently well-liked by Edmonton. I think the lockout may have kept him in college last year, and UND was rewarded as his captaincy and presence played a huge role in the team's advancement to Columbus. I expect that he will eventually move on this Summer to join the Edmonton organization, but it will take a while. Edmonton has quite a lot to do (buying out veterans, signing its own free agents, shopping for new free agents, the draft) before it thinks about Matt Greene. The AHL is a likely destination for a defenseman straight from college (Hale's and Martin's recent experience noted, but I consider them exceptions), and the AHL will have some openings, with recent young NHLers returning to the NHL after spending last year in the AHL. So my prediction is that Edmonton eventually gets around to Greene and other similarly situated prospects in August. He signs then, and competes for a big-league job. Maybe he wins it, or maybe he goes to the AHL to learn the position professionally. I'll wish him well and thank him for his huge contribution if that's how it plays out. p.s. I wouldn't mind being wrong.

Five-hole, I guess the only Brady analogy would be that MN is well established as Marcia, which would make UND Greg. So pretty much equals, except Greg was bigger, stronger and not a girl.

I don't think McMahon projects as a first-line center at higher levels of hockey, and I also wouldn't characterize him as an exceptional puck mover. I do, however, think he has a chance to have a professional career as a very solid two-way forward. Regular fans will grow to appreciate his game.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Your skate point is interesting. We used to play foosball "clean goals only," so anything cheap didn't count. The funny thing about hockey is that only about 50% of the goals are "clean." The rest seem to be garbage bounces and deflections (especially goals by Denver against UND in important games). My point is that while a goal off a skate is definitely garbage, so are plenty of other hockey goals. Which is worse, a soccer goal or one that falls in off Paul Stastny's butt? So maybe you're not an idiot, except for the Gopher fan thing (just kidding; thanks for posting).

I didn't see mention of it anywhere, but the Herald noted Walski's Sioux commitment on Friday: -------------- Walski to join Sioux Aaron Walski will join UND this fall as a walk-on. He'll be the third goalie behind junior Jordan Parise and sophomore Philippe Lamoureux. Walski made a state tournament-record 73 saves for Fargo North in 2001 when the Spartans lost 2-1 in five overtimes to Grand Forks Red River in the state high school championship game. He's played in the United States Hockey League and the North American Hockey League since graduating from high school.

PCM, I agree. There's no comparison in the depth of affection for the schools by the hockey-playing kids. You can probably take 80% of the Canadian kids we're talking about and scratch them off the list because of major junior aspirations or just because they wouldn't consider the US college route. But having the first crack at the remaining 20% is an advantage no one else has. Does it compare to having the first shot at 90% of Minnesota kids, as the Gophers do? Maybe not, but it's hard to measure. Without checking, I assume the state of MN has a bigger population that the prairie provinces combined, but then again nearly every athletically-inclined boy in Canada takes up hockey, while many athletic MN kids do not. Again, hard to measure. Maybe the best way would be to count national titles (just kidding).

Just getting back to the board and I had a thought on this one. MN obviously has a ton of advantages in running its program, but one big one that no other school has is being the beloved flagship in the middle of the country's biggest hockey player factory. The vast majority of hockey-playing kids in the state of MN grow up dreaming of wearing the M. That's just the way it is. It's why Duluth kids like Spehar (despite how he ultimately faded) and Fairchild (rumored to be a future Gopher) choose to be Gophers rather than Bulldogs. It's hard to imagine any of the other schools in the state ever overtaking MN for that position. While this is obviously a big plus for MN, UND arguably has nearly an equal geopraphic advantage: a location just a few hours from Winnipeg and the closest school to the vast Manitoba and Sasketchewan prairies. The list of important players from these areas is long, and it appears that this significant "pipeline" has been reopened, or at least widened, in recent years. Geographically, the only competitors would seem to be UMD and Bemidji, but other factors such as facilities and reputation hamper their ability to challenge UND for this prime position. To summarize, when I think of MN's prime position in the heart of the Minnesota hockey factory, I have to remember UND's prime position near the Canadian prairie hockey factory.

sprig, I understand where you're coming from and don't disagree that we can't compare their international performance. I also think, as some have said, that they all have to go camping and see who performs there. Skate or sit, sort of. I just commented on Cardinal because he has demonstrated the ability to be reasonably impartial in his posts. I personally don't mind polite visitors to this board.

Cardinal's pretty reasonable. I understand his point about Oshie and Mueller. Mueller has been hyped for years now, and I think is considered to be very close to Toews as a prospect - Top 10 NHL draft pick type of prospect. Nobody knows what kind of player any of those three will become, as there's plenty of developing yet to do for all of them. Setting aside comparisons with other players, Oshie's invitation does seem to validate his spot on the Sioux roster in 2005, rather than waiting for 2006. Hakstol said Oshie's arrival was not tied to Murray's departure, and this would seem to fit in that scenario.

At the conclusion of the Selection Camp in Kitchener, twenty-two of the 40 players will be selected to Canada

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?s...hreaded&order=0 Hockey's Future has a long story about Greene and Paukovich, both of whom are Edmonton prospects. There are a few misses (mainly the recollections of Greene's actions after Bina was hurt; some recall Greene being out of control, when in fact he played surprisingly conservatively), but it's mostly a good read.

I agree that the doc should be disbarred. Then he can scrap the law career and concentrate on medicine.

This is the view today, looking back at their careers. I think people forget how much potential that class seemingly had four years ago, when we were looking forward to their careers. Bochenski, Fournier and Massen were gigantic scorers in the USHL, Canady and Connelly were point-per-game guys, and McMahon's name was listed second on Heisenberg's BCHL list. (I know Hesienberg doesn't really "rank" players, but when you see his name listed near the top you can't help but generate expectations.) Faul was known to have a wicked one-timer. The current class also carries (or is burdened by) robust expectations, and perhaps the best argument for them having better potential is that they are younger, with more development ahead of them. I'm excited for the upcoming season; it'll be fun to see some new players, getting to know them not by name or number but by skating style and posture. But you have to remember that this is the time of the year when players have no faults. In our minds, the returners have all taken a step forward, and the new guys are at least as advertised. Kozek's a sniper, Watkins is a burner, Duncan's the next Hoogie, Toews is one of the best '88s in all of North America, Martens has some of the best hands in the BCHL, Miller was Green Bay's best natural goal scorer, and Oshie is the real deal. When September rolls around, the dreams fade, blemishes appear before us, and everyone needs to get to work. As with every year, some guys I expect to shine will disappoint, and some guys will emerge from the shadows to contribute.

Sprig, I think you're right about Espo's acceleration timetable. I heard that the younger Genoway will try to play a year in a Canadian junior league and see where things sit then. I imagine he'll be on the Sioux's radar screen during that time.

I've seen Oshie play on TV in the state tournament the last two years, so that's where I have formed my limited opinion. I agree that any comparison to Murray is senseless at this point, stylistically and in terms of their impact on the team next year. I had considered Murray the heir to Jeff Panzer, as he's the only player since to bring blinding speed with nice hands. That is about as much praise as a player can get from me, as Panzer as a senior was close to as good as we have seen in the sweater. I think that if he were healthy next year, Murray would have been a Hobey finalist. Stylistically, Murray's strength, skating, seems to be Oshie's only real weakness. I have seen enough of Oshie to respect his vision, hands, strength and defensive responsibility. But I do think he'll be a step slow out of the gate, and that will hold him back initially. I'll be happy to be proven wrong, and I'm definitely rooting against my opinion.

FWIW, The linked article was from July, 2004. Since then, Toews and Rogan completed a season with SSM's bantam team. Toews led the team in scoring with 151 points in 69 games, while Rogan was the team's sixth leading scorer with 73 points in 68 games. Obviously, the two prospects have diverged a bit in the last year. Also, I know Toews was eventually selected 117th overall in the WHL draft, and I'm not sure whether Rogan was drafted. As discussed at the time, Toews was selected so late because the WHL teams think it likely that he will choose the NCAA route.

(Was going to call the big classes bulges, but I didn't want to title a thread: comparing the bulges.) Kermit had this insightful post in the Murray thread: ------------------------ The Sioux were a decent team in 2001-2, and they weren't far from being a very good team. Several of the freshmen had very good years. Bochenski and Schneider were outstanding. Schneider, Jones, and Fuher ranked 2,3, and 4 on the team among d-men in plus/minus. The team had some excellent goal scorers (Bayda, Skarperud, Bochenski), but lacked a great playmaking center. The biggest problem was in goal where Andy Kollar had a very disappointing year. I also thought that the senior defensemen (Mazurak and Schneekloth) regressed that year. The next group of incoming freshmen has at least as much talent, but much less experience than the 01-02 group. Chris Fournier played FOUR years in the USHL, Brian Canady 3, Andy Schneider 2+, Nick Fuher 2, James Massen 2, etc. Maybe that explains why some of these guys didn't improve as much AFTER coming to UND. ------------------------ This got me thinking about taking a closer look at the two classes. Here are comparisons of the players' ages (The age shown is the player's age on September 1st of the year they entered school.): Forwards: 21.1 Canady 20.5 Faul 19.6 Connelly 19.6 Massen 19.6 McMahon 19.4 Bochenski 19.4 Fournier 19.9 AVERAGE 20.5 Martens 20.1 Duncan 19.6 Miller 19.2 Kozek 18.8 Watkins 18.7 Oshie 17.3 Toews 19.2 AVERAGE The difference in the average age works out to about 8.5 months, which is pretty significant. A more telling observation is that four players in the 2005 class would be the youngest player in the 2001 class. Defense: 20.5 Fuher 20.1 Schneider 18.1 Jones 19.5 AVERAGE 20.7 Alexander 18.6 Jones 18.4 Lee 18.3 Chorney 19.0 AVERAGE Although the difference in the average is only six months, it's pretty clear that the 2001 class had two seasoned players and one relative pup, while the 2005 class has three pups and one older player. Overall, I agree that the 2005 class has perhaps greater potential than the 2001 class, but it might not be realized in the first year, due to the relative youth and inexperience of the 2005 players. As to the quality of the team the classes are moving into, Kermit nailed the comparison. In 2001-02 both Bayda and Skarperud finished in the top five in WCHA scoring. In addition, very solid and dependable forwards like Lundbohm, Notermann and Spiewak were present. The current returning group (knock on wood) of Zajac, Stafford, Spirko, Prpich, Porter and Fabian compares favorably, but it's close. On defense, Schneekloth, Mazurak, Hale and Leinweber returned. The preseason view was that this was a solid base to work in three newcomers. It didn't work out that way, as Hale's health issues and Schneekloth's and Mazurak's spotty seasons forced a baptism by fire for the freshmen. As trying as that was, the returning group in 2005 is even more questionable. (I personally expect the NHL to fix its issues, with Greene pursuing his career, and Bina to be unavailable this year.) That would mean the returning players would be Smaby (a rock), Radke (not far from a freshman himself) and Marvin and Foyt (more forwards now than defensemen). This time around, we know the kids will be required to play significant roles. Unfortunately, they'll all be just 18, rather than 20 as Schneider and Fuher were. Fortunately, they might ultimately be more talented overall. The big difference, as Kermit noted, is that UND has two very capable goaltenders for 2005, which should help alleviate the main problem with the team in 2001-02. The last point of comparison for me is that the league overall seems much tougher in 2005 than 2001. CC, Denver, MN and Wisconsin all look very tough, with all the lower tier teams (save perhaps SCSU) seemingly able to beat anyone on any weekend as well. The coaching staff has a big, big job ahead of it next year. It will be frustrating at times, but also fun to watch the potential.

I understand that David Hale turned down very solid first-round bonus money to return for his junior year at UND, largely because he wanted to get the prgram back on track after a disappointing season in 2001-02. The big problem that has bitten the Sioux in the last few years is professional offers that sunset for one reason or another. Parise's choice was to take a big bonus (close to $1 million?) or wait for at least a season for what would almost certainly be a smaller bonus. Hard to say "no" when the offer expires soon, with no idea what a future offer might include. Murray faced a similar dilemma. I don't understand the specifics of the Swiss league eligibility issue, but on the surface it appears that he either took this offer now or nothing later, as it wouldn't be available to him later. It's disappointing, as I had hoped he would stylistically be the heir to Jeff Panzer, but totally understandable. I wish him well. I have thought for a while that UND since the new arena was built has turned into Michigan. Terrific high-level recruits, regularly nationally competitive, but falling short at the end, partly because of a lack of experienced impact players. UND's top line has had the following makeup in the last few years: 2002-3 freshman, sophomore, other 2003-4 freshman, sophomore, junior 2004-5 freshman, freshman, sophomore I think the near-term and medium-term future is bright, but this will continue to be a drag on UND and other top programs.

Nicely done, The Sicatoka. I had done the work and was about to type it up when I checked one last time, and you had beat me to it. Seeing Walski in your post reminded me to check Alexander, who wore #2 last year for the Jets.

That's it! Fire Hakstol.

Fair enough, but which shoulder (and I don't mean right or left). Both Murray and Miller had shoulder surgery, and Prpich was rumored to need it after the season.

Yttrium has had solid info on Oshie going back to the beginning, so I personally consider it to be prettly likely. Thanks for the info, and good luck to Oshie. I think he's going to turn into a terrific player: a rare combination of strength and hands. Just needs to get a little quicker IMO.