yzerman19

Of course not, but Toews was a VERY SPECIAL player and was coming to campus as a 17 year old with four potential years of eligibility. The issue isn't how long they do stay, but how long they can stay. If Forney was just now coming to UND as a freshman, I would certainly welcome him with open arms and expect him to compete for a regular shift. However, if he plays a regular shift next year, and say he takes ice time away from another prospect with four years of eligibility, that hurts that other player's development opportunity, thereby potentially hurting the 2010 or 2011 team. Jonathan Toews is 15 DAYS older than Michael Forney. Since 2005-2006 Jonathan Toews has scored 40 goals in NCAA hockey and 58 goals in the NHL. Forney has 26 goals in the USHL, 0 goals elsewhere. I don't think you're trying to make the comparison, but I am just stating a huge difference in a two year player. I contend that college is not the NHL and you do not hang your hat on winning this year, but on constantly fielding a team that has a shot. That requires developing players over time.

I call that player roboforward Speed of Panzer Hitting of Oshie Playmaking of Parise Positional Play of Toews Shooting of Bochenski Penalty Killing of Stafford and Zajac

Do you skate Forney on a checking line? I doubt he'd accept that role. He'd be better off signing an ATA and rolling the dice. I've got nothing against him, but he is an unknown commodity with a max of two years. He has put up good numbers in Green Bay, similar to Cichy and Kristo who both have four years of eligibility. You have to have a grind em down physical line. Kozek could shoot, which made him a threat on that line last year, but his job was to hit. 4 pretty lines equals maroon and gold and watching the guys in green end your season. I'm still not sure if Mattson plays junior. He might not want to, and he would certainly be welcome on many campuses with the guarantee of ice time. If were seriously looking at something like VV with Gregoire and Cichy Malone with Frattin and Kristo Lammy with Hextall and Davidson or Bruneteau Toews with Trupp and one highly contested spot

every fourth line i hope I'm not a scratch tonight NHLer scored goals in college or junior. The difference is that they had the strength, positional play, skating ability, faceoff ability, etc to set them apart from the masses of scorers at an NHL camp. I've said it before, but guys find out quickly who the Ovies are. There are what, maybe 5 guys per NHL team who score goals with regularity. Thats 150 jobs. There are 4000 excellent goal scorers world wide looking for those jobs. If you don't have all the little fundamentals and some other intangible, you are in trouble. As for Edmonton, I'm sure they'd like to see if VV can develop into a sound physical center with soft enough hands to score 20 goals, but he is not a high draft pick. Therefore he isn't a huge investment. Those picks after the first 2-3 rounds are more like lottery tickets... If you win, awesome, if not, its only a buck or two. Especially if a CHL or NCAA team is footing the bill.

In just saying that if two guys are competing for the same spot and the competition is pretty close, I go with the guy who has more eligibility and therefore can potentially develop and give me some ROI on his icetime this year. Clearly VV, Malone, Frattin, Gregoire, Hextall, and Trupp are getting ice time. I would suspect Toews and Lammy to be on the short list too. Cichy and Kristo will get ice. Davidson and Bruneteau will compete for checking or fourth line ice. I would guess that depending on draft status a kid from Holy Angels and a kid from Alberta might need dorm rooms too.

I don't know if I give ice time to a guaranteed two year player who is an unknown commodity at the WCHA level. It is a strange situation with Forney. I would play it basically as a tryout agreement. Forney makes top six forward on the team out of camp or adi

So, now that we know that it is 99% likely that VV will be back, we certainly have a lot of players...it is going to be tough to earn ice time.

Having VV back is a win win. I agree that he has potential at the NHL level, but he isn't there yet. Having a horse like Chris in the stable bodes well for UND. If he is healthy and plays up to his ability, he could be a very dominant player next year. He can develop those little parts of his game that he will need to skate a regular shift in the show, and it is huge for us.

I do love the experts behind the computer screen. I am entitled to my opinion as much as any of you are to yours. I am a fan, and I know the game. I am biased towards the Canadian brand of hockey, but that's just experience talking. I have loved the SIoux my entire life and have missed very few games since the mainstreaming of internet based broadcasts. Seriously if you all think that a big time D1 athlete or his family is going to be "upset" by reading fair criticism, then you have serious dillusions. They know its a gravy train with biscuit wheels. I will gladly grade any hockey player fairly based on positioning, physical play, skill, skating, offensive zone play, neutral zone play, and defensive zone play. I have no bias on anything other than performance. Skating on this team was pretty simple: Marto, Genoway, Frattin. I know a number of pro and college hockey players well. The word on the street this year was that several teams enjoyed playing UND, because "Their defensemen don't like to get hit." That sickens me. There are a number of players in the league, that if they reported to me would be out of jobs. I don't tolerate average play. Second place is the first loser, you know? Blood is a terrible skater, but did you know that he led the team in +/-? I would still say he is a terrible skater. Kozek has the heaviest shot the Sioux have seen since Bochenski, but Andrew was a grinder, not a scorer. When you play on a team that produces tons of NHL players, criticism for average play should be expected. If you want to be the hero, go play for Robert morris.

Pointer deserved criticism. He was definitely not one of the best players on the ice for us. Is he developing? Yeah, maybe I'll give him some credit for that. Did he put up big numbers in the USHL? sure. Do I dislike the kid? no. Do I wish him a 100% recovery? yes. This isn't some recreational hockey league, church league, beer league, bar league, federal league, this is Fighting Sioux hockey. It is not his style or his stats that I question. I question his positioning, physical strength and skating ability. Sorry. Marto and Genoway can flat out skate, Pointer is sub par on his skates, Blood skates very poorly by WCHA standards. It is not about throwing players under the bus or not being a fan, it is about honest assessments of ability. Do I get excited when Pointer is out on the ice? Short answer is no. Am I concerned when Pointer is out there? Short answer is yes. I do not hate on the kid, I want him to succeed in hockey, life, whatever, but he is not in the upper half of WCHA defensemen.

Ouch! As to the previous comment on Danny Mattson, I think his draft position will also weigh heavily on where he plays next fall. If a team falls in love with him at the combine and he goes end of first round he will be at UND next fall.

It seems to me that the UND coaches have done an excellent job at talking through the prospective professionals on what they need to do to make it to the next level. If I recall the quote prior to "the pact" the coaches had very direct conversations with the players letting them know where they thought they had room for opportunity to improve their game and how staying at UND could help or if I am remembering correctly, in the case of Jonathan Toews they told him that he was "ready". Which clearly he was. I think Vandevelde is realistic. He is not NHL ready yet, and he knows it. He is a good player who has a legitimate shot at playing in the NHL. I don't see him as a big time goal scorer at the next level, so he does need to improve all the little aspects of his game to make sure he can find a niche. The guys I've known who have made it all say the same things. Even your fourth line guys who are healthy scatches 10-20 games per year were big time scorers at the junior or collegiate level. They find out pretty quickly once they are "up" who the ALex Os are. If Edmonton is not ready to commit a big signing bonus to VV, his best bet is certainly to play at UND next year and sign after the season. A nice 20 goal 40 point season would be good leverage. He can develop the little things that Edmonton will like and do it under less pressure. As a power forward, it will also be important for VV to get stronger and keep ont he weight. This can be hard to do playing 82 games. IMO, the only thinkg that keeps VV out of a green and white (or black) uniform next year is if Edmonton commits a big time signing bonus and the organization thinks his potential can be better reached by playing in the AHL.

Or Brad Pitt to get the girl

Yes, see the statement about dual winners. This format should result in the best teams making it to the championship. No luck of the draw, etc. No bad bounce one game and you're done.

well done. I wonder if we can keep all of that talent happy sitting in the stable...you want to see intense practices...

Shootout sickens me too. Do it as a skill competition for fun. It should never determine a playoff winner. I think the only place that happens is in International play.

I appreciate the nature of your postion. It is well written and (unlike many posters) is not a personal attack. While I understand the history that allowed us into the fray, I must contend that times have changed. I sincerely doubt that UND would be admitted if we were in BSU's position today. Without our history, tradition, and facilities, it would be a no brainer to not admit UND. Small University, small population...tough sell. It is important to take perspective and realize that hockey will never be a national game in the USA. It will never draw the following of tens of millions like "March Madness" or the BCS bowls. We were even bumped for lacrosse, because a MD vs UVA lacrosse game will draw more viewers and more advertising revenue. It is important for hockey fans to be comfortable with the fact that we are a small and rabid group. We will not change that. Admitting additional teams will not change that. I fear that adding additional teams will do little to improve the game and will simply dilute resources much as expansion did in the NHL.

We did just fine under the old NCAA format. I would actually prefer the NCAA tournament to be run like the WJC with a round robin. Imagine this set up Pool A WCHA regular season champ CCHA playoff champ ECAC regular season champ Hockey East Playoff champ At large bid Pool B WCHA playoff Champ CCHA regualr season champ ECAC palyoff champ Hockey East regular season champ At large bid Each team gets four round robin games played over 2 weeks Ties settled by goal differential unlike the WJC, we still keep the frozen 4 where: 2nd place B plays 1st place A 2nd place A plays 1st place B There would most likely be more than 2 at large bids, because we will see dual winners. We have more hockey games this way and have at least 10 teams make it. We no longer have a regional format and a situation where one and done. You could have multiple host cities for the round robin play.

I wouldnt give a nickel to save BSU at the expense of the integrity of the WCHA and the established successful programs. If saving BSU cost UND the Gopher, Wisconsin, Pioneer, Tiger or Bulldog series I would vehemently oppose admitting BSU. As a lifelong Sioux fan living in Mpls, quite honestly I could care less about Bemidji, BSU, or the Beaver hockey program. I am routing for them as underdogs in the tourney, but I will be disappointed if any concessions are made to let them in. Worry about the Sioux, screw the Beavers.

I have to believe that Finehage will skate in Jonesy's spot. I think we'll see a mix of McWilliam and Gleason early on that third d pairing. I'm not sure about Rowney and Knight for next year, as they just signed this year. Draft status will play a role, but I think the idea is to have them lined up to fill Zajac and VV's spots for 2010. The coaches will be looking to fill specific roles as well as developing talent. We have to have a grinding line to accompany two established scoring lines and a developing scoring line. You can't roll 4 scoring lines and expect to win in this league. Especially with what will be a very young team.

I think that Forney is a big question mark. If he is able to come in and compete in practice, it will be a big time fight for ice time. I think going into the 09-10 season we have the following situation. Guaranteed ice time on one of the top 3 lines: VV (if he comes back) Malone Frattin Gregoire Hextall Zajac Highly touted Frosh that will play on the top 3 lines: Kristo Cichy 4 forward spots left open for the likes of: Trupp (his to lose) Toews (his to earn) Lammy Bruneteau Davidson Forney? I am hesitant that the team will want to bring in a guy for two years Mattson? I believe he will play a year of junior hockey. He is a wildcard, just like Oshie was coming in. The Alberta guys? I predict Hakstol takes a page out of Blaiser's book and rolls five lines in practice. The top four units play. It might be a situation where you have quality hockey players who aren't going to get ice time, so they leave ala Hunter Bishop. Not knowing the physical condition of some of these guys makes a big difference. Yes, they are all athletes and in shape, but who is strong enough to play a grueling WCHA season and then go on a playoff run. If I recall correctly, it was the physical condition of TJ Oshie that made him a #1 draft pick. That condition and draft order brought him to UND that first year, and the rest is history. I think Mattson fits into that same question. I am not saying that he will be an Osh, but he is a high end skill kid coming right out of high school.

The penalty for fighting in the USHL is simply Five minutes, unless the fight happens with less than five left in the game. In that case it is a misconduct and carries a one game sit.

I don't know the extent of Truppers injury woes, but I did not see improvement in his game. In fact, I felt he was a non factor after the MN series. If I were evan, I'd be worried about icetime next year. Agree with assessment if marked improvement on Malone and Frattin. They will be on the top two forward lines. A big ? Is Toews. Was he hurt, or lazy or what? He had solid offensive numbers in limited action usually on the fourth line. I thought his absence also slammed Kozrk's offensive production to a halt. You see it in VV, Frattin, and Malone for sure, the scouts aren't dumb, and the drafted players have potential and improve. What if VV comes back? VV centering Frattin and Kristo Malone centering Gregoire and Cichy Zajac centering Hextall and Lammy Toews centering Trupp and Bruneteau Genoway and Blood Marto and Finehage lapoint and McWilliam

Or Tech to the CCHA to give them 14

So...Northern Michigan or Lake Superior State?