Oxbow6

I guess we don't need to have a conversation as to which way each of us will vote in this upcoming presidential election!

How about the 70+ year old who smoked for 30+ years, but stopped 17 years ago. Developed COPD 6 years ago and can't figure out how he got COPD as he stopped smoking 17 years ago--not that he got COPD from smoking for 30+ years. By the way, he loves golfing with that O2 tank slung around his shoulder/neck! And the fact that he is out of breath walking from his cart to the green.

Dave, Dave...stop living in the "WAS"! Also during your "times", gas was under a buck and there was prayer in school. Things change and not always for the preceived good! Gas is $4--bad. Prayer and God are out of schools--bad. So your argument is because smoking was widely accepted in the 70's, it should still be in 2008? And further more, all the industries, i.e. airlines as an example, that decided to ban smoking since your "time" are/were wrong to do so?

You can and will roll your eyes because you are too bent on your "rights" to see the big picture...which again I can draw for you if need be.

Is there a limit on smoking? And the point is not about losing your driver's license. The point, which you brought up, was limiting a legal product which is infringing on your rights. andtheHomeoftheSIOUX meet DaveK. Now go play but don't run with the scissors!

Didn't want to ask!? Might be TMI!

And how does alcohol fit into your "argument"? Alcohol is legal at age 21. It becomes illegal when you are intoxicated and caught with a DUI. That is limiting a legal product when the comsumption of that product becomes a risk to the user or those in potential contact with the alcohol user. Try again...

Golfed in right behind Brian Lee's 4-some last Thurs. He had his cap on backwards the whole round and I doubt he is either.

You don't have to buy it, but again it is what it is. Not perfect but still the best of what is available world-wide. Thanks for the definition.

And peanuts too I'm sure!

No love it or leave it argument from me, but the democratic voting process though is what it is. Life isn't fair, it just is what side of fair do you want to be on? I don't like to hear the baristra at Strabuck's griping about fair and he only works 24 hrs/week, sleeps in until 11 am every day and smokes pot. He could make his situation better, but chooses not to. I don't think it is "fair" that pray is taken out of schools as well as the Pledge of Alligence. I tell my kids that life is not fair, but it is up to you to get on the "right" side of "fair" as they see it. And if people do that, they have no reason to complain. Everyone of us can find situations in our life that are not "fair". I see the side of smokers being inconvenienced in Fargo by the ban and feel that it is not "fair", but the people of Fargo voted and it is what it is. The city continues to raise my property taxes. Fair? But my option is to move out of Fargo or deal with it and voice my opinion, wheter heard or not. Appreicate your service to our country! And jingoistic...I am not that smart!

Fixed your post. Can draw you a picture if you like.

But if my wanting to go to a restaurant/bar/club affects my health as a non-smoker because there is smoking, that LIMITS my choices as a non-smoker. How is that now different than the new ban. I used to choose not to frequnet those places because of smoke. Now smokers have their choices LIMITED but the ban doesn't dictate that they CAN'T smoke. Now I can go to a place with smokers, enjoy their company but not be affected by their smoke and they still have the OPTION to smoke, just not in that enviroment. Inconvenient for smokers? Yes. Lost their right to smoke? No.

Not ignorant? Try again. Come follow me for a day and see if you don't care about the effects of smoking on a person's health. You think it is fun for that 65 year old recently retired man who is now on oxygen with COPD or lung cancer due to 40 years of smoking. Yes the golden years! He has little quality of life for the short time he has left. Or the 75 year old great-grandmother who has blinding macular degeneration and can't see the faces of her great-grandchildren because she smoked for 45 years? Keep posting moronic comments, like the one above, so you can feel better about "your freedom" being lost. I bet in the 2 isolated cases I mentioned above, their "freedom" for a decent quality of life now makes them re-evaluate their past decisions of "freedom of choice" to smoke. But then again you "don't care"!

You seem to be displeased with what goes on in this state and country. For people like you I'd gladly pay the one-way ticket north to Canada for you. Whether you like it or not, the election process is what this country is based on. Fargo, not ND, voted for the smoking ban. This was not "tyranny of the majority", but a majority of the those who exercised their right to vote saying yes to the ban. Don't like the result, don't live in Fargo. Don't like the democratic voting process, head north.

Wrong for the gov't to have this control? Medicare and Medicaid are gov't health programs that care for those who chose to smoke and become ill. But it is my tax dollars that fund those programs and I don't smoke. Should the gov't have control over my taxes to help those who are irresponsible and knowingly make poor choices that will affect their health? An now the voice of the people who approved the ban thru the democratic voting process of this country is wrong? And bringing Hilter into this...now you are really sounding ignorant. You try to connect the dots here and you really don't get it.

For those of you who talk about "your rights", you again missed the point. 4 people who don't smoke didn't just show up at Starbucks in Fargo and decided this issue. It was put to a vote of the people of Fargo who had the "right" to vote if they were eligilbe. The vote of the people who exercised their "right" to vote decide the smoking ban was fair and passed the measure. Again the measure didn't ban smoking altogether. If you live in Fargo and voted and are expressing your opinion on this issue, like DaveK, I'll respect your opinion even though I disagree. If you didn't vote, but had the "right" to, not so much.

Exactly. Seems like the smoking crowd can't figure that one out. But slamdance is right one one point: Common sense isn't so common.

Not disputing your take on pharma, but to say they are at the table at the same level as tobacco is a leap. Pharma, for all their faults, helps provide a possible cure or solution to what tobacco causes. Not giving pharma a pass, but this is an apples to oranges scenerio. The healthcare system of this country that I work in has flaws that are too many to count. The main issue I see is that people don't take responsibility to their own well being. When they are sick or ill, they want a quick cure, like going thru the drive-thru at McD's, but they won't think about modifying their lifestyle. i.e losing weight, exercising, stop smoking,... There are no easy answers to the healthcare issues we face as a country. Bottom line is you, as an individual, need to take accountability for your own health. If you smoke, stopping is the single greatest lifestyle change you can make for the betterment of your health long-term. PS: I wouldn't want to receive healthcare in any other country but ours. It is not perfect here but it is still the best system overall worldwide.

My wife, by education, is a Neuro/Ortho RN. She said when we got married the one thing I couldn't ever do is drive a motorcycle without a helmet. She said when she worked in that field, the worst of the worst traumas were bike accidents without helmets. Scrambled eggs!!

Right on the money there. But why is that? More chronically ill people need more meds to sustain a quality of life. And why are they chronically sick? Again, no other risk factor, that is non-genetic and avoidable by choice, that causes more of a burden to healthcare system than smoking. It is just that simple. Smoking and it's complications/risks to the human body kills more people than any other controlled lifestyle factor--even obesity by poor diet choices.

There is no greater burden to today's healthcare system than the health issues that come from smoking. ND BCBS just asked for a 15% premium increase and has continued to raise it's rates for years. Coincidence? The baby boomers, who grow up in the smoking culture, are now the one's coming in with COPD, asthma, hypertension, cancer, macular degeneration...should I continue? These are, just to name a few, illnesses on the rise that are directly linked to the adverse effects of smoking. Don't complain as insurance rates continue to rise and in the same sentence say "my rights" are being infringed apon! If your smoking leads to a non-smoker having chronic health issues, not to mention your own, don't come to me with "the deer in the headlights" look when I tell you your health issues are directly related to your choice to smoke.

I think the point was it is amazing that UND fans would drive to GF from Fargo to watch D1 hockey in greater numbers than NDSU fans going across town to the BSA to watch D1 BB.

There are 3, including my family, on our street!

Fargo is a FB town first, then a baseball town. Basketball is overrated as much as hockey is underrated as far as popularity in Fargo. NDSU FB is very popular because they are very good. The Redhawks draw regardless--good entertainmnet and venue. Basketball, especially @ NDSU, is overhyped based on fan turnout. The Force will be well attended and will be a great addition to the Fargo sport's community.