MplsBison

Maybe they won't. You could be right. But why risk it? Just to prove a point that you've already lost?

Do you really want to find out? It's unbelievable how selfish the hockey fans are. Yeah, lets get UND banned from all post season play in all sports...who cares? So long as we make our point that the NCAA can't force us to get rid of the nickname.

What about setting the program back to the year 2000? Would that be an acceptable outcome?

All I'm saying is that UND could be a top national team without the REA, as the past indicates and you seem to be agreeing with. They could play in the Alerus. It wouldn't be as good as the REA, for sure, but they could do it and people would still come and watch. Will this happen? Probably not. It's not really a reasonable option. But the foot-in-mouth statements given by the REA representative are just as unreasonable, if not more so. The REA had better get their butts in gear because the NCAA is not going to give them or UND an inch on this. Lastly, the NCAA has nothing to do with post season play in the FBS division of DI football. That is an entirely separate entity called the "BCS". The BCS is the one that organizes and puts on the all the bowls. All the schools in DI FBS go through the BCS for post season because they can make more money off bowl games than a tournament run by the NCAA. Even if the post season format eventually switches over to a tournament, the BCS is still going to be the ones running it. They will keep the money for themselves not give any to the NCAA. The BCS is the one drawing the focus of certain congress members and possibly getting anti-trust investigations. So the NCAA has little if any risk of congressional attention if they were to ban UND from the post season due to the inaction of the REA.

I can only make a guess as to what you're getting at. You tried to take my statement literally (even knew you knew better) as me asking how many NCAA hockey championship games UND has won when playing the championship game at the REA. The answer would obviously be none, as no championship games have ever been played at the REA. Duh. Don't take it literally because I didn't mean it literally. You knew what I meant.

What reason did the NCAA have to go after UND in the first place? Maybe it was for a good reason (I've argued before that the hostile and abusive campaign was a risk mitigation strategy by the NCAA) or maybe it was just ideology run amok. But someone decided that UND's 'Fighting Sioux' nickname was not acceptable and so they placed UND on the hostile and abusive list and sanctioned them accordingly. So why didn't those original sanctions for being placed on the hostile and abusive list include a post season ban, you ask? I can't really answer that. Perhaps they didn't feel that level of punishment was necessary at that time, so long as the school complied within a few years? Who knows. My point is this: just because they didn't go to that level of sanction back then does not mean they can't go to that level now! Your argument is the same thing as telling a policeman "you can't give me a ticket for speeding, I was going less than the posted limit!" and then expecting to get away scot-free. While that might be technically true that he can't give you a ticket for speeding, he can instead give you a ticket for wreckless driving as his disclosure, which is probably twice the fine and a mandatory court date. The NCAA is the policeman in that analogy, in case you haven't figured out. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by antagonizing and defying the authority. The NCAA is the authority. You're a member of their association. You will bend to their will and there's really not a whole lot you can do about it. I know there's this colloquial "anti-government" sensibility in North Dakota...and thus any time the NCAA acts like a government, they draw the ire of the state. But just try to realize that this battle was long and hard fought and both sides are tired and extremely weary of further fighting. Any attempt to start-up something new after the fact, like this, is just going to bring the heavy hand of the authority (NCAA) down that much harder and faster. In other words: do you really want to find out just exactly what the NCAA can do when they're pissed?

Every comparison in your post is apples to oranges. Why? Because none of them have two reasons to leave their current venues, like UND now does. As you point out, they all either have or had long periods of time in the venue where they did not win championships playing in that venue. That reason alone would not be enough to leave, I agree. But none of them have the 2nd reason to leave, like UND does have with the REA. None of their venues are potentially doing damage to their school by directly violating the wishes of the NCAA. That's the 2nd reason that UND has and none the others have and that's the real reason that UND should re-evaluate leaving the REA, not just because they haven't won a championship in the REA since they started playing there. I brought up that point merely to say that UND hockey would not end if they didn't play in the REA. They didn't before and arguably the team was better without the REA back then, per the statistics. And as I predicted, you tried to defend the REA by saying it's critical to the future success of the program. So then make a counter point to the valid point I already raised: how was UND able to win all those NCAA championships in the past if they didn't have the REA as a recruiting tool? NCAA DI hockey has not changed that much since 2000. I don't buy that as a reason why UND needs the REA.

I suppose UND ends up making even more money off UND hockey by playing in the REA than they would have if they continued to play in the old arena. But....again, I ask: how many NCAA championships has UND won playing in the REA? I think if the REA won't back down and comply with the settlement...UND needs to take a hard look at the overall benefit of continued partnership with the REA.

Do you really think that the NCAA can't ban one of its member schools from post season games? Come on now...you are lying to yourself and you're not convincing anyone. And even if, somehow, the current rules wouldn't allow them...they can just make new rules that do allow them. This isn't hard. And if UND doesn't like it? Then leave the voluntary association.

You know, for all the potential problems and headaches this could cause UND in the future moving forward....is playing at the REA really worth it? Yes, it's the nicest NCAA hockey venue in the nation...but is UND hockey better off because of it? I already know the first response: it allows us to recruit the best players in the nation because we have the best facilities in the nation. Oh...ok. How many championships has UND won since moving into the REA? Right. Sadly, this almost exactly reflects NDSU football's situation of moving into their own Taj Mahal only to see a program go from nationally dominate to winning no championships since.

Then fine - the REA should keep every last, single logo in place. Don't replace any of them. And then UND should take it's hockey games elsewhere. The REA can be for concerts, shows, etc.

Of course the NCAA has the right to place sanctions on UND, limiting their post season options, if UND is going to play their games at (privately owned and operated) facilities that have no respect for the NCAA and their rules.

You guys keep trying to keep the tournament out of the REA, but as hard as you try you're simply not correct. Boise's Taco Bell Arena has been a first round host numerous times and has capacity of ~13k: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taco_Bell_Arena Spokane's VM Arena is in the same boat, with capacity ~12k. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spokane_Veterans_Memorial_Arena

You do make reasonable points, but nonetheless I've done laid the groundwork for reasonable doubt to the argument that the NCAA would *never* grant the REA a first round host to the NCAA DI men's basketball tournament. It could reasonably happen -- but only if the REA complies to the settlement.

Thank you for proving my point was correct! I said you don't have to be a huge market to host an NCAA MBB game and your numbers prove that to be true. The NCAA awards 1st round host sites based on bids... not on the size of the city. GF is accessable by air from all over the country via Mpls and Chicago and is only 1 hr drive from Fargo. Plenty of hotel rooms between GF and Fargo. Not to mention that GF alone can support a sold out REA, as UND hockey statistics can attest to. What an amazing opportunity to showcase one of ND's finest facilities as well as the state to the nation! There would never be more national interest in ND from a sporting event in the history of ND college athletics combined. But only if the REA is willing to comply to the settlement. I will rest thankfully on the fact that this is purely a business decision. Too many dollars are involved and thus, emotional appeals and emotionally-driven traditions are non-factors.

Dayton, Boise, etc. etc. etc. You don't have to be a huge market to host the first round.

Fine - REA can be a private entity without UND hockey playing there. UND does not have to play in that facility. NCAA should sanction UND if they continue to play in a facility that purposefully thumbs its nose at the legal process that has been agreed to by the state, school and the NCAA.

It makes you laugh. Here you have the typical UND hockey fan: acknowledging that this so-called "sport" called 'basketball' has national tournaments at sites just like the REA and by implication you admit that hosting such a 1st round of the national tournament would be an unprecedented way for the state of ND, the city of GF and UND to show off their amazing facility, school, town and state to the nation. But who cares?! So long as hockey doesn't get exactly their way....to heck with everyone else!! But then again, has this not been the exact arrogance and selfishness displayed by hockey the entire time? Hockey will kick and scream allllllll teh way down...to the bitter....bitter......BRACKISH ... end. Sorry fans of bball and especially UND bball....apparently you have no place at UND.

And UND men's hockey team doesn't have to play games in the REA. NCAA could demand that either the REA is in or out of the settlement: either they clean the place up or UND is banned from the post-season in any sport if they continue to play games there.

As far as the NCAA MBB tournament goes, you are incorrect. Every "neutral" site has a school or conference as the official host. So for example, if the 1st round was at the Metrodome, then the host would be the U of Minn. For sure the REA would never be able to host and possible UND could not be the host at any site too. But seriously, why even have this type of discussion? It's petty. UND agreed to phase out the nickname as complying to the settlement with the NCAA. I'm thinking, if the REA wants to try to be a bunch of cowboys and thumb their noses at the NCAA and the entire legal process that has happened, UND needs to be penalized further. Perhaps no UND teams get to go to the playoffs until the REA is compliant? That would shut Jody up.

Can you imagine the impact for UND, Grand Forks and North Dakota of hosting a 1st round of the MBB tournament?

So after all is said and done, the management of the REA are going to refuse to comply with the settlement and thus prevent UND for ever hosting another post-season game at the REA? That's sure what it sounds like. Wow.

Still looking for blood? Give it a rest. Witch hunt's over.

Same old story, same old answer: that's fine and dandy...but it should not be on the ND taxpayer's dollar! Mayville and VC are essentially a private school experience that is subsidized by ND taxpayer money. Let them go private with that mission, then. If they want to stay in the NDUS, time for a new mission.

I've said before: turn VC and Mayville into junior colleges! It would let the schools stay open and it would allow them to serve a mission that would actually be helpful to people in the region. And as a bonus, it would give them a conference for their teams to play, instead of watching the DAC 5 bleed out...