MplsBison

Google maps says it's 0.7 miles from Wilkerson to the REA, 0.7 miles to Memorial and 1.3 miles to Alerus. To me the Alerus looks to have a perfect set-up for tailgating. Lots of parking lots all around the stadium, the same concept that the Vikings want to build in Arden Hills - parking and tailgating right at the stadium. On the other hand, where would people park and tailgate at Memorial? Just looking at google maps - there really don't seem to be many options right next to the stadium. I see lots to the northwest, which is now a parking ramp correct?, a lot to the north - which is slated to become another parking ramp and a track/soccer stadium, a lot to the east - which is slated to become the indoor practice facility, and a practice field to the south which is going to stay the same. I don't know if the practice field is going to get turf, but either way I'm sure they're not going to want people tailgating on that. Doesn't seem like Alerus is really that bad of a location.

There's not really going to be a new BB court. That's why that portion of the updates costs the least. The actual court itself will be the same and the arena will be the same size. All they're going to do is replace the folding bench seats on the east side and lower west side with permanent, green&gold chairbacks, replace the old chairbacks on the upper west side with new green&gold chairbacks and possible permanent green&gold chairbacks on both ends of the court. Almost might upgrade the concessions and restrooms, can't recall. That's the first thing they ought to update - it will get the most visibility, be the nicest for the fans and be the quickest/cheapest of the updates to complete. So naturally it will be the last thing they do - count on that.

Technically, I think that proves my point. The reason I say technically is because it depends on what you mean by "putting a better product on the field". When I was replying to Matt, it was understood that we were talking about an improved level of football talent. In other words, "putting a better product on the field" means you're literally putting two teams made up of more talented players on the field for people to watch. This is when I come with the argument that the relative talent level is basically irrelevant. Most people can't tell the difference in person at full speed unless one team is severely less talented than the other. However, when you say it above I take "putting a better product on the field" to mean winning more games. In the case, then yes I do agree with you - winning will result in higher ticket sales, because ultimately it results in the game being a more exciting event. I'm over using the word exciting, don't take it literally. What I'm really getting at is the psychology of the potential ticket buyer. There has to be some motivation to pay for a ticket.

NDSU tried to sell more tickets using DI as the carrot - sure. But they didn't imply that the reason people should care about DI is because it means better football talent. They just said "you should care about DI....because it's DI .... and DI must be better than DII".

Again you're wrong and for the same reason. The actual quality of the football being played is almost inconsequential to the number of tickets that are sold to games! Ask yourself this question: would you be less likely to buy tickets to a UND football game vs. Montana if you knew that every UND and Montana senior player was suspended for that game (make up your own reason why that happened)? If you say yes, then I don't think you're being honest with me or yourself. So there you have it, the quality of play has undoubtedly decreased, yet the excitement of the Montana game has not. The game still sells out. The reason to buy that ticket is the excitement of that match up between UND and Montana, two great flagship schools from two great states and with two great football programs. It's an exciting event to be at. That's the draw. Somehow, UND's program has to generate that kind of excitement week after week to sell out every home game. You can't sell that excitement to people by proclaiming that UND is now DI and therefore they have better talent on the field.

Sadly, I have to disagree. Some of the best football teams to ever visit the Fargodome have produced some of the worst attendance. For example, Cal Poly in 2004 was one of the best teams in the nation. I think attendance was something like 12k. Could've been higher and also could've been because of hunting. It comes down basically to how excited you can get the core fanbase - the ones who will buy season tickets. And the prime motivation for that excitement is not necessarily how talented the players on the field are (again, sadly). Transitioning from DII to DI itself can generate a lot of excitement in the core fanbase.

I'm not advocating taking money away from completing the new basketball practice facility or making the updates to the BSA basketball arena seating. Those updates have to be done as the top priority. But my point is that they should only take around $15 million. That leaves $17 million from the total $32 million that is being raised. So my point is that the next projects should be to spend $12 million on a true indoor facility (like the Youngstown facility) and then the rest of the $5 million can go for the new weight room and training room addition to the BSA. The other upgrades can wait. NDSU has an agreement with the Fargodome, the specifics of which I am not privy. But I'm pretty certain that it requires the Fargodome only to prepare the main arena floor with the football turf for the 6 home football games and a limited number of practice dates - the whole year! It's not like Bohl can just call up the dome manager willy nilly and say "Set the floor up, a lightning storm just rolled in and we have to practice today!". Doesn't work like that. And there are times when NDSU need an indoor place to practice.

Hmm...Spirit is not a half bad nickname itself. The UND Spirit. It could be a way of honoring the Spirit Lake Sioux and their efforts to keep the Sioux nickname as well as the spirit of all the UND alumni who fought the good fight against the NCAA.

I don't think Carlson is clever enough to have thought of a scheme to undermine the SBoHE by leveraging the nickname, in the first place.He was just trying to get some free publicity, which is what he's still trying to do. Article says that they want to retire the nickname by the end of the year, which seems to contradict the official statement from Kelley that he has been instructed to resume planning to retire the nickname and finish by the end of the year. From the posts I've read on here, the law is toothless anyway. Sounds like UND would do well to just go on ahead and retire the nickname even if the fake law isn't repealed.

It's going to be a piecemeal deal. First they're going to build a structure that houses a 200m track, some seating and a few nets so that baseball/softball can have batting practice and golf can take swings into the net. Nothing more. Next they'll upgrade the BSA arena with new seating. Hopefully they'll remove the beams that obstruct the view of the court on the west side seats. Then they'll build the bball practice facility addition. Next they'll do the weight training/training room addition/update. Last they'll remodel the BSA locker rooms and offices. I just get the feeling that after spending $32 million, NDSU fans are going to be disappointed with what they see. The BSA and the new track building are going to have a cheap looking exterior and the BSA arena is basically going to be band-aided with new green seats.

NDSU does not control the Fargodome. They have to ask permission to use the space for football practices and if the Dome is hosting an event, obviously it can't be used. It takes more than 30 minutes to set up the field and once the new turf goes in the conversion will take hours. The Fargodome would prefer if no NDSU teams ever practice there, because it takes money away from the Dome and they get no revenue out of it. They only want to host football games and basketball games. No doubt about it, NDSU's outdoor teams would greatly benefit from an indoor field. The building is being built and it is incredibly - stupidly - short sighted not to at least have turf in the infield of the 200m track. Building a 300m building would be far superior and frankly some of the other updates that they have planned for this $32 million can just wait.

The point is to get the indoor track out of the BSA arena, so they can upgrade the arena into a full-time bball arena. But you're right that to not make the indoor track capable of housing an indoor field - just stupid.

Even a 200m track could have turf in the middle a decent area, maybe a 50 yd field with a full endzone and 3/4th the standard width? It would be something, at least. But nope, the infield will be entirely dedicated to track - so they can have long jump/triple jump runways, 60 yd dash run way, pole vault runway, high jump area and shot put/weight throw area. Completely short sighted. For a measly $7 million more they could have what I posted above like Youngstown. I would rank NDSU's needs like this: 1) bball practice facility addition to the BSA - $10 million? 2) BSA arena updates - $4 million 2) indoor 300m track/field house - $12 million 3) new weight room/training room addition to the BSA - $5 million? So there you go - that's $31 million. Darn shame...

But is that actually true? Does the law physically prohibit the SBoHE from instructing UND to retire the nickname or would it just cause them to be subject to a penalty? What if they just went ahead and did it anyway? Would Carlson demand that the ND state police arrest the SBoHE and Kelley? Would he demand that the state attorney file a restraining order that would legally stop the school from retiring the nickname?

What are the penalties for breaking the state law? The OP of this thread indicates that the SBoHE has instructed UND to continue planning for the retirement and to complete that planning by the end of this calendar year. Then what? I assume they're hoping that the law will be repealed by Nov.

Youngstown just built the same exact facility, minus the last bullet, for about $12 million: With the last bullet added in, $20-25 million sounds right.

I don't think the NCAA would care if a school has no nickname, but for some reason I also seem to recall that there was something in the settlement saying UND *will* choose and implement a new nickname. Could certainly be wrong though.

Yeah but obviously the investment would be well worth it. NDSU can't practice in the Fargodome anytime they please. That's hardly the case, in fact I don't think the Fargodome likes having to cater to NDSU on the days they aren't playing games there. NDSU could really use a dedicated indoor field. The baseball, softball and soccer teams would benefit as well. Seems very short-sighted. I read a post either here or on bisonville saying that the arena upgrades to the BSA are only going to be 3-4 million of the overall 28 million improvement. So other than the arena upgrades, new bball practice facility and new weight room/training facility - I'd like to see the money go toward expanding the indoor track building from 200m to 300m and putting a field in the middle. Just makes too much sense. The other updates can wait or be cancelled.

Thanks, great post. It just seems to me that if you have a football team and don't already have a dedicated indoor field, then building a 300m indoor track is such a no-brainer. You can put a full 100yd football field in the infield of a 300m track and have the facility double as an indoor football field. I sort've agree with the last poster in the discussion you linked to, does indoor track really matter? I know the NCAA allows schools to count indoor track as a separate sport from outdoor track towards the required number of sports and I know there are separate championships awarded for indoor track. But how legitimate can the sport be if there's not even a standardized competition format. What is the appeal of indoor track for runners? Every other sport has a single competition season (fall, winter or spring) and the rest of the year is spent training for the next competition season. Why do runners need to have competitions in the winter as well as the spring? Not to mention, some track runners also compete on the cross country team in the fall - which is also allowed to count as a separate sport. Seems kinda ridiculous.

Maybe I'm just crazy, but the timing of this lawsuit seems suspicious. Like - why wasn't this done as soon as the law was signed? It reads like if the NCAA won't budge then an excuse will be needed to get rid of the law quickly and without a fight. Just the threat of the lawsuit might be enough. Kelley can say something like "We gave it our best shot and the NCAA won't budge. Now the school is threatened by a lawsuit! The law must be overturned and UND must be allowed to retire the nickname!"

Congrats, this is going to be a great facility. It's really too bad that NDSU can't build the indoor track building with a 300m track instead of a 200m track, but that would probably take the cost from 5 million to 10-15 million. Not in the cards. Anyone know why indoor tracks are 200m instead of 300m anyway?

No, I meant that I want to harvest domestic fossil fuel sources (shale natural gas). If we've got them, we might as well use them before they become obsolete. Energy independence is key. I'm just asking for oversight/regulation of the natural gas harvesting from the shale by an authority that is not driven by profit motives. Left to their own oversight, you know that natural gas companies are driven only by maximizing profit - meaning that they will continue to use known destructive methods like fracking.

What's wrong with harvesting those domestic sources in a responsible way that doesn't damage the land?

Why try to convince those who don't want to be convinced? Why try to be intellectual with those who are anti-intellectual?

Thanks sprig for the insights. I think petro-chemical companies know they have about 50 years max to earn as much profit as they can muster before fusion and battery-electric devices completely nullify demand for their products. Hence the urgency to develop and harvest domestic sources as quickly as possible, seemingly without regard to damaging effects of their harvesting methods.