82SiouxGuy

Because most of them don't have a good idea about the ramifications of the sanctions. They don't understand that keeping the name will actually hurt the University. It isn't a simple question of should they keep the name or not, the sanctions and their cumulative effects on the school have to be factored into the decision. What would be better for UND, keeping the nickname and playing schools like Mayville, Jamestown and South Dakota School of Mines constantly in all sports, or changing the name and playing Montana, NDSU, Minnesota, Wisconsin and other schools on a similar level? Playing small schools like Mayville and Jamestown does nothing for UND financially or for building recognition. Students won't be attracted to UND with those opponents, donors won't donate as much money. And the NCAA isn't going to be hurt by the decision. The only thing that UND gains is they would get to keep a cool nickname and logo. But they would lose much more than that.

Their members give them that power. And considering the overwhelming majority that passed the policy making procedure after UND sued, I don't see that changing any time soon. They make too much money for the big schools.

The NCAA was asked about this during the meeting with the North Dakota delegation last August. They said that they would not accept that because the settlement deadline for obtaining approval had passed and this wasn't part of the settlement. So the answer is no, the University of North Dakota Spirit Lake Fighting Sioux would not be acceptable to the NCAA.

If the Spirit Lake lawsuit gets dismissed after the hearing on Thursday then even this argument gets thrown out. And as we have said before, it doesn't matter to the court what UND would do for the lawsuit. It will be won or lost based on evidence in the case, not any efforts that UND might put into the case.

Spirit Lake would have been enough if they had simply sent a letter before the original deadline. They didn't. UND sued to force the issue. In the settlement of the lawsuit the NCAA demanded both Spirit Lake and Standing Rock in exchange for giving UND an extra 3 years to get approval (actually it was an extra 4+ years because the original deadline was earlier in 2006). That is why Standing Rock became the issue, Spirit Lake didn't get on board until 2009. Things have deadlines, UND couldn't get the necessary approvals for either deadline.

When the NCAA announced their policy they thought that the Oklahoma tribes were against Florida State using the nickname, and they were going to use that to help force Florida State to change. The NCAA thought that because they had received letters from a tribe member that is an attorney, and they understood that he spoke for the tribe. The Tribal Council in Oklahoma came out right after the NCAA announcement and said that this man did not speak for the tribe, and that they were not against Florida State using the nickname. Therefore the NCAA backed down since they didn't have any backup on the issue, and the standard became a single local tribe. For some reason people still believe that the Oklahoma tribes are against using the name.

The US government came to UND several years ago to investigate claims of discrimination and civil rights violations because of the nickname. They didn't find enough evidence to issue any penalties of any kind. They did recommend that UND retire the name at that time. I believe that was a year or 2 before the NCAA policy was put in place, so it was close to 10 years ago. But I would be very surprised if they found much more at this time, so I don't see the courts forcing UND to retire the name.

I've pointed out several times that your side has been less than truthful. The simple truth is that you are playing on emotion and using that emotion to spin your message. First, people don't like change. Asking to change something that has been around for a long time is difficult. Second, many people in the state aren't paying attention to all of the information. They read that the NCAA is trying to steal the Fighting Sioux nickname. They react by saying no. Some of them will change their mind as they learn the facts. Third, North Dakota has always tried to fight against outsiders. You just try to take advantage of that. The NCAA are the outsiders, and then you paint Kelley and Faison as outsiders also. Many North Dakota residents will automatically come down against the outsiders until they learn the facts. Many people don't understand the ramifications of the sanctions. You and your group say that the sanctions won't hurt UND, so people believe you. People that understand the situation, like coaches and administrators, disagree. Then you have groups like some NDSU fans that love to support your position because they believe they are helping to destroy UND athletics. Its funny that NDSU supporters understand the situation better than most of your group. I only hope that this group isn't what puts the nickname supporters over the top.

He said it might be a factor, not the entire reason. That is completely different from stating that Notre Dame will not play UND. The Big Sky Conference has said they may not want UND because of the nickname issue, but have not said that the schools will not play UND. They are totally different issues. You and your cohorts try to use any inflammatory language you can to paint the UND administration and the SBoHE in as bad a light as possible. That includes stretching the truth and outright lies. As a matter of fact, many of your arguments are downright petty. Like the SBoHE deciding to move up the date to change the name. Everyone that was paying any attention knew that Standing Rock was not going to change their position. They refused to even discuss it. They weren't going to have another election before the deadline. At the same time, South Dakota was being accepted into the only conference that had shown interest in USD and UND, while that conference wouldn't even accept UND's application. If Standing Rock wasn't going to move from their position it was a good business decision to try to do something to lock in a conference. The deadline was the latest that UND could go without changing the name, it wasn't a guarantee that they would wait until that date. Yet you and your group believe it was part of some kind of conspiracy from the beginning to get rid of the name. The SBoHE has tried to make good business decisions for UND on this issue. They have made mistakes. But they have made much more of an effort to do what is right for UND than the current nickname-at-all-cost supporters. Most of your group is acting on emotion. Or they don't understand the actual ramifications for UND. Or they don't care. Forcing UND to keep the nickname is a bad business decision, and that is how the decision should be made. What is best for the University of North Dakota, not what is going to make people feel good. The right decision isn't always what is easy or popular. This is one of those issues. Keeping the nickname would be the easy and popular decision. Retiring the nickname is what is best for UND and for the state.

Let's try this again. Grant Shaft never said that Notre Dame would not play UND because of the nickname. Notre Dame never said that they would not play UND, so Shaft never would have tried to give a reason. What really happened was that Notre Dame had a choice of which hockey conference they wanted to belong to. They chose not to join the new National College Hockey Conference with UND, and instead will join Hockey East which includes some schools with which they already have relationships. When Notre Dame announced their decision, Shaft was asked if he knew why they came to that decision. He speculated that one of the factors may have been the issues with the UND nickname. He did not say that it was the only factor. If was a stupid thing for him to say. No one knows for sure why the decision was made, although television rights issues seemed to be a large factor. But Shaft never said that Notre Dame was not going to play UND because of the nickname, because there has never been a statement from anyone saying that Notre Dame was refusing to play UND.

Yes, some schools would. For instance, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Iowa all had Native American policies in place before the NCAA came out with theirs.

The First Amendment applies to government. It doesn't apply to private business or organizations. The NCAA is a private organization that can set up its own rules. Keeping recruiting fair and protecting athletes is one of the most important purposes that the NCAA serves. And GFG is right, the NCAA would do a very thorough investigation of any reported violation. Tracking whether someone is booster or not isn't that difficult.

Why would anyone be stupid enough to take a chance? Especially at a school that is already fighting with the NCAA.

So Ralph belonged to a cult? Is that what you're saying? After all, he was an alumnus that also gave a lot of money to UND. That fits your description.

It sounds like we agree about government/schools. UND is one of the lucky schools that actually makes a little money, in large part thanks to the REA. We disagree about students attending games. I think a lot of students attend at least 1 game just to see what all of the noise is about or because a friend drags them along.

All it takes is 1 case of a booster making a contact in violation of the rules. Don't you think that the NCAA might be watching UND a little closer than normal because of the sanctions? Especially in a very public forum like Twitter? The violation could result in the athlete being ineligible, further sanctions against UND or something else. Notre Dame has a very good page dedicated to the subject, http://ncaacompliance.nd.edu/boosters.shtml.

The NCAA is very strict about boosters contacting or recruiting students. The best policy is to do nothing beyond watching their games.

From http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/16772-change-the-name-gaining-support/page__view__findpost__p__545775 Many alumni are very passionate about sports. They donate a lot of money to the school, including a lot for sports, because of their connection to the school which you obviously don't understand. They also buy a lot of tickets and attend a lot of games. And a lot of Grand Forks area residents are alumni.

Yes, UND does have online classes and degrees. As a matter of fact, the UND online program has been ranked quite high in several different reviews over the past few years. However, you may not be aware that UND has an actual campus location that has been teaching students every year since 1883. That was 6 years before North Dakota became a state. I feel quite certain that the majority of the UND alumni that post on this forum took most, if not all, of their classwork on campus (or in off-campus locations like Frenchy's). That on campus experience helps build the connection between the alumni and the school itself. That is the connection that you don't understand and have compared to a cult.

I believe that the US District Court is supposed to look at the NCAA motion to dismiss the Spirit Lake lawsuit next week. I'm not sure when the results will come back. If it's dismissed it might convince some people that there aren't any more chances to get the NCAA change their position. That could sway some votes in June.

^^^This plus you never know what is going to happen for sure. Blais could decide to stay longer. Omaha could struggle and they might decide to go a different way whenever Blais does leave. Better to take the sure thing now than a maybe in 3 or 4 years, especially when taking the sure thing doesn't preclude you from taking the maybe later.

Fetch is the one that keeps bringing up an AHL team.

You're the one that said: which intimates that you may be quitting at some point.

Most colleges are run by the government, what's your point? And most private schools have a similar business model. My guess is that over half of the students have attended at least 1 game of some kind. Pretty much all college students I have known have attended at least 1 game, even the ones that don't like sports. Colleges also have music programs, and all kinds of activities that most students don't attend. If the school can approach break-even on athletics they are probably better off in that department than the music department or the theater department or several other departments.

Don't worry Fetch, plenty of people will continue to support UND even if you quit. But it only makes sense that the group you identified would have a stronger connection to the school than people that just like the sports teams, or the people that worship a nickname and logo.