bincitysioux

I agree. Lennon will be gone within five years if UND doesn't move up. That would cripple the football program.

Didn't Babich take NDSU to the semi-final game a few years ago? He was the coach of your last successful team.

I recently posted these numbers on another site. From 2000 to 2005: FB winning % UND .770 > NDSU .660 MBB winning % UND .620 > NDSU .560 WBB winning % UND .820 > NDSU .780 Combined post-season appearances for the 3 sports UND 9 > NDSU 4 Football Attendance UND 9,417 < NDSU 11,892 Combined Basketball Attendance UND 3,128 > NDSU 2,421 I know these figures aren't really overwhelming, but since this particular regional institution continually recites their dominance at the Division II level of play as one of the leading factors in their reasoning for movinge to DI, these numbers may have some validity. Another point is the fact that in the last 8 years, UND has 4 DII national championships, while NDSU has 0. One more observation of mine is this: I always considered UND Men's basketball to be somewhat mediocre, but after some research I have found that our rival's men's basketball program is far more mediocre than North Dakota's.

I would think that there would be 2 or 3 games televised on FSSN. Likely similar to last year, during the conference season. I doubt any of these games would be on TV on WDAZ, though, just over the satellite.

Unimpressive schedules including alot of DAC-10 teams. Disappointing.

I disagree, Grand Forks already has a superior TV market to UMD. City population has little to do with the size of the TV market. UND sporting events are broadcast across the state on cable and across the country on satellite. While both markets rely on hockey, GF is much bigger than Duluth in that area. UMD has to compete with U of M. UND has to compete with nobody. The Horizon League doesn't care about hockey, basketball is there money maker. My point is that several of the cities that hosts for the members of the Horizon Leauge are by nature, hockey cities. As far as the TV markets go, UND is in a unique position because they do broadcast select conference games that can be received anywhere in the U.S. via the FSSN. I would think that if UND were to seek membership in the Horizon that the ability to broadcast Horizon League games across the country would be a huge asset. I will state one last time that although Big Sky membership provides conference membership for all sports, and also prestige for the university, I still think that a conference combination of the Horizon/Great West would be the best fit for UND both geographically and economically.

I know that this is far fetched, but here is what a GWFC schedule for UND could look like in their FIRST year of transition: -UM-DULUTH: Good draw at home against former NCC opponent. As long as Bubba is there, we have a friend. Hockey rival. -AT NORTHERN COLORADO: Former NCC foe getting ready for the BSC season -GVSU: Our new rivals, the second best team in DII football, getting ready for the GLIAC season. -AT NEW HAMPSHIRE: Hockey school similar to us that has always been good to us, and we to them. -BISMARCK-ST. MARY'S : Home game against an in-state school. Formerly coached by Dale Lennon. -SDSU: Last meeting was in Brookings. They owe us this one. -AT NDSU: Last meeting was in Grand Forks. We owe them this one. -SCSU: Hockey rival. Fewer NCC teams looking for a game. Ambivelent to the DI move. -AT CAL-DAVIS: We owe them a game after what we did to them in the 2001 playoffs. -CAL-POLY: No Idea. I figure if we go to one Cal school, one has to come to us? -AT SUU: No history. Maybe they can help get us into the Mid-Con. Honestly, I think this would be a realistic conference schedule. Sure, I wouldn't be surprised if Crookston was on the schedule for the potato bowl, but that's alot better than Monana Tech, isn't it? The point is I think UND would have a more entertaining year than some other recent transitional schools. I doubt that we would have to bring in any NAIA, D-III, or non-scholarship I-AA programs.

Honestly, the Big Sky does not excite me all that much at this point. Other than the Montana schools, it is a very far reaching conference and IF UND ever had the chance to join it would incur massive travel expenses, and receive little in return as far as establishing meaningful conference rivalries other than UM and MSU. While it would be wonderful to be a part of the Big Sky for having an all sports conference, unless Sac State/Portland State leave, or SDSU/NDSU are added, I don't honestly think that the Sky is a viable option, or for that matter a very attractive option. I think the best scenario is joining the Great West for football and the Horizon for all other sports. The Great West will welcome UND with arms wide open from the get-go. The Horizon is geographically the best fit for all sports, while the Great West has potential to be a solid football alliance if its current members remain. The Horizon opens up potential rivalry/recruiting areas in Wisconsin and Illinois. Plus, the Horizon League schools are generally located in northern tier cities that have an avid following for hockey (i.e. Green Bay, Milwaukee, Detroit, Chicago) which may give UND an added attraction for the consideration of addition. The problem with the Horizon is that while it is within good proximity to UND (especially with two Wisconsin schools) is that it is an urban conference, which gives UND/GF a major strike against it. The next option is the Mid-Con/Great West. The mid-con is also an urban conference, but its urban cities are primarily located in the rural midwest and still opens recruiting in the Illinois and Indiana areas. Plus, Southern Utah is a Mid-Con member and could be an ally to UND/NDSU/SDSU if they all four play in the Great West. SDSU will have first chance at this conference (because of an emphasis on basketball), then NDSU or UND, probably in that order. Lastly, a new conference made up of independents. This is probably what is the likeliest scenario. A crummy, far reaching, conference that extends from the Dakotas, to Georgia, to California. However, I think unless the Big Sky adds all three Dakota schools, it is really not much better. My pipe-dream would be the Horizon/Great West.

How does hockey help the Sioux? Because hockey at North Dakota is a cash cow. Yes, it is expensive to maintain, but it also generates enormous revenues. On top of that, it could help with scheduling during a transition (a noted problem at NDSU) because UND already has established, long-running relationships with many DI programs, thanks to hockey. I think I am pretty good with statistics. 16% of the top 25 I-AA football programs also support hockey. One of those schools is also a traditional power in basketball (UMASS). This tells me that DI hockey is not the liability or drain on a program that many people (mainly NDSU people, because they have never been able to support hockey) have suggested. This is especially true of a program that has had great historical success such as North Dakota. It generates both revenue and notoriety (seven DI national championships, the only DI championships obtained by a North Dakota institution). As far as the demographic numbers of enrollment and population that I pointed out, that was just to show that the University and community is on par with the "top" programs of DI-AA. NDSU was quick to point out when they made the move that the school and Fargo had grown to point that it had outgrown Division II. I agree. And so has UND. If you knew anything about statistics IowaBison would know that 16% does not constitute "likely" being in the top 25, rather it shows that having hockey does not spell out doom for a program (when 16% of the top 25 support hockey, while only 11% of 120 I-AA schools support hockey). Bigmrg74: I did not say that because UND has hockey it will excell in sports at the DI level. I just think that because UND has DI hockey, and a very good DI hockey program, that it will help rather than hurt throughout the transition period both in a monetary way, a notoriety way, and likely in a scheduling way. For example, we all know that NDSU and SDSU have recently signed contracts to play the U of M in basketball. If UND were DI, who do you think that a school like the U of M would rather bring in for a basketball or football game? The biggest state university from a bordering state that they have no history with (SDSU), the second biggest school from a bordering state that they have no history with (NDSU), or the biggest school from a bordering state in which they have a half-century long rivalry with that usually competes against them for conference and national championships at the highest level of play (UND)? In this scenario, NDSU would certainly be the odd man out. To the U of M, SDSU would have the advantage luring South Dakotans to the Twin Cities while UND would appeal to all North Dakotans, as well as hockey fans in general. Here's an idea for you NDSU fans that claim that DI hockey is a minor sport: when you're watching the Bison get their butts kicked at Williams Arena this fall, walk up to any person wearing a Gopher jersey and tell them that you think that college hockey is a minor sport that means nothing. Just see what happens. Here's an example of notoriety: My uncle (U of M alum) has season tickets for U of M basketball. His son currently attends NDSU He called me and said "you should come down this fall, we'll go to the game and watch our alma maters square off on the basketball court". I told him that was the bison coming, not the Fighting Sioux. This is yet another example of an out-of-state sports fan thinking of UND when it comes to college athletics in North Dakota. Why? Because of the greatest college hockey program in the country. Asset, Asset, Asset. I normally reserve these rants for the message board belonging to the remedial school to our south down I-29. My original post was just meant to point out the University and the community of Grand Forks is, in my opionion, capable of supporting athletics at the next level.

How come school nicknames are always a target? Does anyone ever piss and moan about names like Sioux Falls, Sioux City, Cheyenne, Mandan, or Lakota? I'm just wondering.

Here is the pre-season Top 25 for I-AA football this year: 1. James Madison 15965/30707/10242 2. Furman 3208/58282/11074 3. Eastern Washington 9924/7723/6182 4. Montana 13026/42918/23352 5. Georgia Southern 15075/15854/15793 6. Western Kentucky 17811/40641/10124 7. Delaware 21289/25098/18895 8. Northwestern State 10159/16609/10707 9. New Hampshire 15407/9236/3714 10. Northern Iowa 14167/34298/12080 11. Southern Illinois 21873/27033/9748 12. William & Mary 7645/11530/6711 13. Lehigh 6686/71428/10683 14. Sam Houston State 13091/27925/6406 15. Harvard 24969/95802/11110 16. Massachusetts 24062/17824/7618 17. Cal Poly 18453/41958/6700 18. North Dakota State 11146/90000/11567 19. Jacksonville State 8930/10283/10303 20. Lafayette 2300/26276/5558 21. Montana State 11841/22660/11892 22. Hampton 5793/133793/7306 23. Appalachian State 14178/12915/14661 24. Maine 11135/10578/6701 25. Hofstra 13412/49453/3535 The first number behind each school is its enrollment, the second is the population of the city it's located in, the third is its average attendance for FB games. These are 2003 figures. Avg Enroll: 13,261 Avg Pop: 36,833 Avg Attend: 10,105 UND Enroll: 13,000 GF Pop: 54,000 UND Attend: 9,389 There are 120 schools with I-AA football. 13 of those schools sponsor DI hockey, about 11% of the division. There are 4 schools in the top 25 with DI hockey, or about 16% of the poll. That tells me that DI hockey could be more of an asset in a move to DI rather than a liabality.

Anybody heard anything about how Bowenkamp is doing in mini-camp?

Very true, the Ivy schools have tons of money, but I'd think that New Hampshire, UMASS, and Maine would be good comarisons to evaluate any potential UND move. I think if you look at the attendance numbers for these schools, it shows that being in a big market isn't as important, rather the size of your school enrollment and alumni. Look at Harvard, I don't know how big the Boston metro is, around a million with all the suburbs? They have a 31,000 seat football stadium and they average 11,000 per game. UMASS is in a dinky town out in the middle of nowhere and they still draw about 7,600 for FB games. I just don't think it matters so much the size of a city. More so, the type of alumni a school has, and whether or not they'll support the school.

Just for demographic comparisons, here are some numbers averaged out for these twelve schools: Total enrollment: 11,833 City Population: 94,693 (If you throw out Northeastern in Boston it is 51,120) Avg Football Attendance: 8,061 Avg Hockey Attendance: 3,036 These schools seem to be pretty comparable to North Dakota as far as school sizes are concerned (only Harvard, UMASS, and Northeastern are much larger, around 24,000 enrolled). The only school located in a major metro city is Northeastern (Boston). Brown, Harvard, and Holy Cross are in cities about the size of the FM area. Fairfield (Sacred Heart) is the size of GF while the rest of the schools are located in much smaller cities. As far as fan support for the sports goes, UND draws a better crowd to both football games and hockey games than nearly all of these schools. Only Harvard, Princeton, and Yale draw better than UND for football, and none draw more for hockey. As for facillities, the Alerus seats more for football than six of these twelve schools with DI Hockey and I-AA football. UND Enrollment: 13,000 GF Population: 54,000 Avg FB Attendance: 9,389 Avg Hky Attendence: 10,870

http://www.umdbulldogs.com/mens/basketball/schedule.php It looks like the last game of the regular season is a home game against UMD, Feb. 25.

Can anybody name the schools that have that are DI in all sports, DI-AA in football, and have DI hockey? Looking at the types of schools that do, and hopefully if they do it successfully, could be a big help in determining if UND has what it takes to be successful at the next level (I think they do). Personally, I'm really big into the idea of I-AA football at North Dakota, but I'm not willing to allow our hockey program to suffer in order to get it. For that reason, I love RT's idea of letting schools move up in football but not other sports. I know that it'll never happen, but if it were an option, I'd easily take DI hockey, I-AA football, and DII everything else over DI everything.

I think that Winona St. is the most likely to say no simply because they are all but guaranteed a spot in the playoffs every year. It is certain they wouldn't dominate in the NCC, that's why I think they like where they're at. That being said, they'd be my first choice to join the NCC because they are a quality program. I don't want CSP or St. Thomas. I think the only advantage, from my standpoint (pro-moving to DI) is that bringing in more and more NSIC schools, will upset more and more alumni forcing them to put pressure on the administration about making the move. If UND is going to stay DII, I want the NCC to be built of schools with quality academics, athletics, funding, supportive alumni, and of decent size enrollment (at least around 5,000). UMD was a nice addition last year, and Winona would be a great addition as well. To me, any other NSIC school would be disappointing. My top four teams to consider for addition would be: 1)Winona St.--Good geographical fit, quality school, with an excellent football program and pretty solid basketball as well. 2)Nebraska-Kearney--Great potential rivalry with UNO, generally a pretty decent football program, keeps UNO happy. 3)Michigan Tech--Football program has shown improvement as of late, WCHA DI hockey school which already gives the school a history with UND, UMD, SCSU, Mankato, plus UNO also has DI hockey. 4)Northern Michigan--I don't think the NCC can justify taking just one of the Michigan schools. The two together would be a nice rivalry and travel partners *The problem with the Michigan schools is that if the NCC adds one or both of them, without adding Kearney, I think that they run the risk of alienating UNO, which is the second most important school in the conference, and having them bolt to the MIAA.

I just wanted to congratulate Erin Sullivan of the women's tennis team on being named to the Academic All America team in ESPN The Magazine. It just points to the quality of UND student-athletes, along with providing even more national exposure for the University of North Dakota athletics. Way to go Erin!!!

I know that this thread has been dead for a while, but Minnesota's recent scheduling of ndsu in basketball got me thinking about DI again. If UND were to go DI, I would think that it would be very appealing for schools such as Minnesota and Wisconsin to bring us in for a "guarantee" game, even in the first year of transition. We already have a huge rivalry with the gophers in hockey, and a pretty good one with the badgers, too. This puts us in a better situation than other schools in transition would be in as far as scheduling woes, and better chances for making money in what would be a tough five year period. I would think that these Big 10/WCHA schools would jump at the chance to play a program that they already have quite a history with. Also, I think that the DI debate could be getting a big kick in the pants with the hiring of an A.D. from a school with all DI sports, including hockey. Not to mention the appointment of Rob Bollinger as his assistant, a big football guy who I think is obviously on board with DI. Last, but not least, the news that Kupchella has aspirations of moving on.

I see that the CHA is the host conference for the 2007 Frozen Four. Do you think they'll still be around?

Thanks for the help! Where could one acquire that Lee Bohnet book?

I was just looking on the ss.com history page for the football site and was wondering if anyone could tell me anything about the Camellia Bowl, Pecan Bowl, and Mineral Water Bowl that UND played in in the 60's and 70's.

Just wondering if anyone knows when the basketball schedule will be out, or has any idea what it will look like. I figure it must be close since they said scheduling played a factor in moving all of this year's games to the Sioux Center.