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I find it interesting that there is no mention of tuition waivers on that site.

A third team in the Dakota's going D-I is an interesting development, that would have effects on scheduling, and travel costs for both those schools. Also, UND is NDSU's main rival, and a renewal of the rivalry would be a big deal. You know that, don't turn it into something its not. I doubt that anyone on these message boards has any idea what if the big sky wants or doesn't want. For that matter, I doubt if the big sky knows what it wants. Can you tell me that UND wasn't interested in NDSU or SDSU going D-I? From all of the articles I've read in the Grand Forks Herald (Editorials), I don't think that you should be talking about what other fans are wondering about. I would say the attraction goes both ways. Its really just an interesting story line in the soap opera of the NCC. To think anything else is simply arrogant. Nobody at those schools thinks they "need" UND. If all it took was another school for the big sky to come calling, I think you would see overtures to USD also. But you don't, because the current NCC schools have nothing to do with a D-I conference expansion. Its going to be very interesting to read this board if SDSU and NDSU gain admission to the Mid Con with the indiana school in a month, and what happened to all these conspiracy theories. I'm going to come on here and demand to know what happened from everyone of you. The back tracking should be spectacular.

Despite how much you guys seem to want to trash SDSU, I don't remember them having any tuition waivers instead of scholarships in D-II, do you? Like or not SDSU was better off then UND would be. Those tuition waivers are the reason that UND is running a deficit. In particular, Women's Hockey is hurting UND right now. I don't understand how, if you can't get the scholarships for womens' hockey, you think you can fund everything to a D-I level? What do you guys have against SDSU? I've defended them and UNC, and yet you attack SDSU. I would have thought you would rip me for UNC, but for some reason SDSU is you're target? I don't understand.

LOL. I think I was defending UNC just as much SDSU wasn't I? Also aff aren't initials, its an old joke some of my friends had with me. That is an incredible coincidence if 89rabbits initials are A-F-F. I can't even imagine what name that could be. As for your reasons: 1. Acceptable 2. Despite what everyone on this board thinks, there still is no conference available to UND. Maybe I'm wrong, but I won't believe until I see it. 3. I'm sorry, but the level I've seen in Grand Forks from buisnesses is exceptional. How much more do you really expect for them to contribute to UND? I think you're pretty much maxed out. 4. I seriously doubt hosting the womens basketball championship at the Alerus is a reason for going D-I, unless you're saying you want to host the D-I basketball championship. I fail to see how going D-I solves this problem. 5. How is that ideal? You could have to spend millions to renovate the REA. Doesn't seem so helpful to me, especially when your upgrading scholarships.

yeah, no possibility of that being manipulated. I mean UNC should be congratulated for spending the EXACT amount of money that came in this year. NDSU too, thats a real feat.

I'm delusional huh? So explain to me why SDSU and UNC are both half way through their D-I transition, and UND isn't going D-I? The '"wisdom" of your president? You're waiting for a conference? You guys are delusional. You're school doesn't have the resources to be D-I, so you get fed these lines to keep you on the hook, until one day, everyone has forgotten about the old NCC, and you're still D-II. I hate to be harsh, but right now you're a D-II school with a deficit, and you're talking about how much more prepared you are than two schools that have already went D-I. I guess it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But I know, I'm delusional for not seeing how superior a school that is running a deficit in D-II is to two schools that have upped thier athletic budgets by a couple million dollars and continue to do so. I can't believe how dumb I am. Simple logic defies your argument. If UND was better off then SDSU, they would have went D-I with NDSU. They didn't. There's no reason for that other than UND not being as prepared as those schools. Talk all you want about facilities, if you can't give athletes scholarships to play in them, their worthless to you as a D-I school.

I also don't know why some of you are so hard on SDSU, they have already committed to a game with the gophers, meaning that when they complete their transition they will be fully funded in football. Its probably going to take them longer, but I'm sure with those paydays in football, things are going to be competitive over the next 10 years. UNC also has already lined up a conference affiliation, something that NDSU, who "has the right idea" has yet to accomplish.

And UND is worse off then both of those schools were when they initially changed divisions. I take it you don't want UND to go D-I then.

SDSU and UNC both don't have two hockey programs taking most of their budget. If you took the hockey part out of UND's budget I'm betting they would be worse off then where SDSU and UNC are. SDSU and UNC weren't running a deficity in D-II.

For what purpose? Purely athletics, or a building project of some sort?

Yeah, thats an awesome attitude. Just bill it to the students. There's an endless supply of money. They can just take out some more loans. Maybe you should subtract money from the teachers salaries too. I mean what was UND created for? "Education"? Yeah, we all know thats bull. Clearly the students at the school exist only to attend Fighting Sioux athletic events, and pay athletic fees. I've got an idea USA hockey, what don't you send a letter out demanding that all alumni at your school increase their donations 850%. Or at the very least double or triple the amount. Oh, I know though, they already give a large amount of money from their careers. The students, who are already strapped to fund going to college, can afford to pay more right? I'm pretty sure that a lot of students would have a huge problem with increasing their tuition, just so the alumni at UND can keep up in their ego war with NDSU. I don't know what you've done for a career USA hockey, but you need to remember that UND educates teachers, and several other disciplines that don't start out making $100,000 per year, or even $30,000. If you increase your tuition to $850, that will be another $2250 in loans, plus the interest you need to pay. For someone that starts out making $18,000 a year, that IS a lot of money. But go ahead, increase that tuition, and see how many students you lose to NDSU, or for that matter both SD schools, who have cheaper tuition. I hope you relize you'll be taking opportunities for a good life from many deserving students, so you can thump your chest. Both NDSU and SDSU have committed to D-I without raising fees for their students. If UND is incapable of doing that too, then should they really be going D-I in the first place? This whole conversation seems ludicrous to me. UND is in the hole in D-II, and UND is having a D-I review committe to see if it can work. (Hint-Money isn't going to get any better).

I doubt that SDSU and NDSU would view this as a maturity issue. Both those schools have invested heavily in D-I, and I'm guessing UND would end making up the difference in the form of a much larger entrance fee to the conference to pay other members for playing anon-qualifying for the full 5 years. SDSU and NDSU would probably have much smaller fees to pay. If that is the case, I doubt either school cares, since all had to make sacrifices to be D-I. If you think that UND is going to ride into that conference without incurring the finicial losses that SDSU and NDSU have in any form though, you'll be in for a big surprise. UND is not going to be playing in the Big Sky immediately while they ramp up scholarships, hurting other schools RPI's or rankings, and not pay for it in a big way.

You guys keep saying that, but I don't really know what you classify the University of Illinios as. I have some friends that attended there, and I don't think its exactly a "poor" school.

What am I wrong about? All I've said is what is GOING to happen and why. I don't think I've ever said that I thought it was right. I can guaruntee you that there are at least 800 lawyers that work for the NCAA that think your wrong, and are right now preparing to tear your case apart in a court. I don't care how fanatical you are about the fighting sioux name, you need to at least understand what is working against you. If it turns out I'm wrong, and you will still be using the fighting sioux name, then I'll come on here and tell everybody how stupid I am. But I doubt the NCAA was stupid enough to try and force schools into something that can be beat in court as easily as people here seem to think. FYI, I saw this quote from your president today: ``We're going to consult with the state attorney general on what our options are,'' Kupchella told Fargo's WDAY radio Friday morning. ``We might have to take some steps to consider some way to preserve the history and tradition and yet modify the name somehow.'' Doesn't really sound all that confident in a court case. Wonder why that could be. You guys should email him and tell him how easy it is to beat the NCAA in court, and that if doesn't agree that the NCAA would be laughed out of court "He's wrong".

I said 95%, not guarunteed.

I would prefer not to give out details of my life to a large anonymous room of people if that's alright with you. In either case, I don't think I've even made a legal argument. All of my arguments have been logic based. If you don't like what I have to say, thats fine, but I have yet to hear anybody explain to me why, if this court case is such a slam dunk, no other school in the country has even attempted to bring it to court. I mean, if theres even a decent chance of winning, say 25%, why hasn't anybody else thought about trying it in the courts? I'll tell you why: 1. You'll Lose 2. You'll waste possibly millions 3. You'll be getting national media attention construed as being a racist institution by liberal media outlets. If anybody has an explanation I'd love to hear it.

Do you truly believe that. If I went today and sued you for stealing something from me, I would have a 50-50 chance of winning, even though we've never met? The outcome of that sounds pretty predictable doesn't it. These courts don't just cast black magic. There really is a system. If this was a barrel shoot, there would be an uproar in the country. Courts have to be consistent.

I honestly don't have an opinion on this either way. I think that if there really are that many people that are offended by the sioux name being used, then it should be changed, but I have a hard time believing that most Native Americans even care if UND uses the Sioux name. I haven't really followed this whole if we should change the name thing or not, since I really don't have a stake in it, but if I had to guess I would say that a lot of special interests groups have probably gotten involved, and everything about the argument, such as how many native americans actually oppose its use, the effects of using the Sioux name, etc. have all been so distorted by now that nobody even knows what their arguing about. I don't think that the NCAA is all knowing by any means, but looking at the issue objectively, it would appear that they have staked out the legal high ground on it, and they will be almost impossible to beat in court. I'm not saying it doesn't suck, I'm saying thats the situation you are in, and theirs nothing you can do about it. If I sound like I don't think you should fight the NCAA, thats because I don't. It makes no sense from a risk vs. benefit standpoint. If you're in a war and your outnumbered at a bridge a thousand to one, your going to retreat and use your resources for something else, not sit their and get slaughtered. I know it sucks, and I sympathize, but those are the facts. I guess you could compare me to a doctor diagnosing a terminally ill patient. Doesn't mean I wanted it to happen, but I can pretty much tell you whats going to happen. Some of you are going to hope for a miracle. Some of you will hope for a new cure, maybe it will happen. But probably not.

Wrong. In court I would give you a 0 - 5 % chance of winning. This isn't a flip of the die. People make careers figuring out what would happen in court. If you think that 5% chance is worth potentially over a million dollars, than by all means, sue. All I was saying was that no other school in the nation has thought that much money was worth the small chance of winning, and they have rolled over. I'm not saying it doesn't suck, I'm saying those are the facts. Which is going to happen to UND. Not because I said so, because it is the logical move. The potential of winning isn't worth the cost involved with trying to win. This isn't a hockey game. It is predictable up to about 95%. Thats the way the court system was set up in this country. It is supposed to be consistent and fair. It is therefore predictable.

The measure of a business isn't how many lawyers they hire, but where the money goes. In this case, the money goes back to the members. I know that the NCAA admin is becoming rich off of this, but the NCAA tournament money? Goes back to the organazation, even some goes to D-II and D-III to fund thier tournaments. It definitely doesn't have the appearance of an organazation, but keep in mind, that the members involved with it have budgets in many cases in excess of 50 million a year. Thats a lot of money (which also answers your question about why their are so many lawyers. Wherever theirs a lot of money, I promise there will be a lot of lawyers). The voting doesn't matter. I'm pretty confident that even if there where no committees involved in the NCAA, and only one person who pronounced king of the NCAA upon birth, it would have no effect on the NCAA's status as an organaztion. It is an organaztion because membership is voluntary. The rules for why FSU is exempt and UND isn't are truly crazy. But don't have any doubt that there is an actually test that the NCAA has come up with. Absolutely nobody will understand it, or be able to cipher and sort of logic out of it, but it will be there, and it will somehow hold up in court, because there have been 800 lawyers working on it for 3 years.

I don't want to be negative for you guys here, but I truly don't understand the confidence you have in winning a court case. Like it or not, nobody is forcing you to be in the NCAA. Just because it is the best doesn't mean you have to be a member. NAIA Division I is all the alternative you need. Would it suck? Absolutely. But the amount of sucking won't factor into this decision. Only if there is an alternative. And there is. Heck, nobody has even said you have to be a member of any of these organazations. Technically your teams could be completely independent of any organazation. Yes, it would make scheduling games nearly impossible. But in court that won't matter, only if there is an alternative. While I'm talking about it, is the NCAA even subject to an anti-trust case? It isn't a buisness, as much as it appears to be. It is a club, or association, which means they can enforce their own rules for members. If you don't like it, you can leave. In any event, I'm absolutely positive that the NCAA studied all possible legal outcomes in detail before this ruling was ever placed. There's a reason that Marquette etc. just changed their names, and didn't attempt to sue the NCAA. They know it would be a waste of time and money. If these schools thought there was even a chance of winning a liable suit against the NCAA, don't you think they would have taken it? Wouldn't the risk of losing time and money be worth the potential of winning millions from the NCAA? If nobody else has sued, I would venture to say that there is hardly any chance of UND winning a case, despite all of the big talk coming from the admin. Your president knows that nothing will ever come out of talk of a law suit, hes just trying to appease all of the alums that are up and arms. Watch and see what happens. I doubt UND can even win an injunction against this. Speaking of injuctions, would that really be what you want? Having this name thing over UND's head for the next 10 years. Protests every time you go somewhere. All so that you can lose in the end, but have wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars? I know that Kupchella isn't that stupid. He's going to change the name, except feed everyone some stuff about "it still protects the spirit and history of the fighting sioux name". I'm probably offending a lot of people by saying this, but things really couldn't have worked out better for your president on this. Right now he has alums breathing down his neck about going D-I and about the name. The NCAA is going to force him to change the name, which is going to cost the school big dollars for athletics. Since the school is going to lose money, he now has a convient scape goat for not going D-I (Which he doesn't want to do anyway, but he can't get the pressure off his back, and not have it be his fault). Look where he ended up... Name change = NCAA's Fault Staying D-II = NCAA's Fault Administration = Martyrs. Alums will be happy that he "did everything he could".

Hmmmmm.... what do all of those schools besides UC Davis have in common that would make them different than the SU's and UND. Lets think hard about it. I know that there's a common link there somewhere. A reason that would make it an almost idiotic comparison between them and and schools up here. Wait, thats it! Those are all schools near several almost desparate D-I conferences in the south. But we're in the NORTH. So a comparison between NDSU, SDSU, UND and them means absolutely nothing! Thanks for helping me out on that one guys. I was a little confused. I mean, I've went all over in South and North Dakota, as well as minnesota and the upper midwest, but I had never run into North Florida or Central Arkansas before. But now I get why.

That sentence makes no sense at all. Why would he use the phrase "noting that a few colleges in the area either recently have moved up or are considering it" to support the idea that making a new conference would be tough. If he was saying that he would have said something to the effect of "noting that local colleges have moved up have said they are looking for a conference with an autobid, and likely wouldn't be interested in a conference with no NCAA basketball autobid.

Give me a break. No fan of a team would sit here and bring down their own team, and use their rival as an example of "how it should be". There's nothing wrong with being a fan of NDSU, but at least say you are. You're posts have the same validity whether you're a UND or NDSU fan. Posing as something you're not makes your posts lose all credibility.