[dagies]

PCM, on Oct 19 2005, 11:14 AM, said:

And good job on getting your letter to the editor published.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Same here!

[yekcoh]

Here are some more links to stories in the news and blogs concerning name changes. (I apologize if any of these links are repeats.)

And MY opinion: I believe that how people feel about anything of this nature is all in the ATTITUDE people have of both themselves and of others and I find it always interesting, sometimes sad, often times exciting, and too often disgusting.

Competition brings something out in people, whether we are fans or players. And yes, fans for AND against the Fighting Sioux have made mistakes in all the hype, as we are all humans. But let’s not let these times take the PRIDE away when we cheer on and encourage who and what we believe in. I have worn a Sioux jersey "with pride" as a UND student, a mom of 3 UND students, as a UND sports fan, as a UND visitor in a host city, and as a friend of people who are Sioux. And I will continue to have a positive attitude and be proud of who I was, who I am, and who I will be!

Quote

Bamboo Shade: A Sioux Indian Story
The Creator gathered all of Creation and said,

"I want to hide something from the humans until they are ready for it. It is the realization that they create their own reality."
The eagle said, "Give it to me, I will take it to the moon."
The Creator said, "No. One day they will go there and find it."
The salmon said, "I will bury it on the bottom of the ocean."
"No. They will go there too."
The buffalo said, "I will bury it on the Great Plains."
The Creator said, "They will cut into the skin of the Earth and find it even there."
Grandmother Mole, who lives in the breast of Mother Earth, and who has no physical eyes but sees with spiritual eyes, said, "Put it inside of them."
And the Creator said, "It is done."
~ Unknown

"NCAA doing nothing for pride of Indian nations"

"NCAA: Fighting Sioux nickname still abusive"

The Dartmouth "Dartlog"

Fighting Sioux and Fighting Mad

Maybe both sides of this argument need to look "inside" for the answers.

[PCM]

From Dennis Dodd on CBS Sportsline.com:

Notebook: Handing out the first-half hardware

Quote

Five biggest disappointments
The NCAA: A bad, hypocritical and embarrassing year for the governing body.

It played big brother with the ludicrous "hostile and abusive" nickname decree on schools with Indian nicknames. (The Fighting Irish weren't included, hmmm) It then backtracked on schools like Florida State that, surprise, weren't hostile and abusive toward Seminoles. Do your research, boys.

[GrahamKracker]

fightonsioux, on Oct 19 2005, 07:59 AM, said:

GK,

You brought up Hitler again. I'm confused are you talking about Jeffrey Wiese?

After having one of your own admit to admiring Hitler and actually posting on a Hitler website it would be in your best interest not to bring up Hitler anymore.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One of my own? He was Chippewa? This just shows how truly ignorant you are by thinking ALL Indian people are the same. Pity pity pity, maybe you should learn more about Indian people than watching them dance.

[Goon]

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 06:36 PM, said:

fightonsioux, on Oct 19 2005, 07:59 AM, said:

GK,

You brought up Hitler again. I'm confused are you talking about Jeffrey Wiese?

After having one of your own admit to admiring Hitler and actually posting on a Hitler website it would be in your best interest not to bring up Hitler anymore.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One of my own? He was Chippewa? This just shows how truly ignorant you are by thinking ALL Indian people are the same. Pity pity pity, maybe you should learn more about Indian people than watching them dance.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

GK,

Ok, why is it when a native american (no matter what tribe or group) says that using Indian nick names are wrong and its use should stop, and you go out and deem that as ok: however, when ever an Native American says something that you don't agree with, you immediately dismiss them as wrong, misguided and of another band or tribe. Can't have it both way.

This post has been edited by Goon: 19 October 2005 - 05:44 PM

[GrahamKracker]

Goon, on Oct 19 2005, 05:43 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 06:36 PM, said:

fightonsioux, on Oct 19 2005, 07:59 AM, said:

GK,

You brought up Hitler again. I'm confused are you talking about Jeffrey Wiese?

After having one of your own admit to admiring Hitler and actually posting on a Hitler website it would be in your best interest not to bring up Hitler anymore.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One of my own? He was Chippewa? This just shows how truly ignorant you are by thinking ALL Indian people are the same. Pity pity pity, maybe you should learn more about Indian people than watching them dance.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

GK,

Ok, why is it when a native american (no matter what tribe or group) says that using Indian nick names are wrong and its use should stop, and you go out and deem that as ok: however, when ever an Native American says something that you don't agree with, you immediately dismiss them as wrong, misguided and of another band or tribe. Can't have it both way.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HMMMMM.....can't have it both ways, is that like saying you're honoring someone but that honor is really a smokescreen?
My people, the Lakota, have all passed resolutions against the name. Simple as that. I don't care if the Red Lake or Turtle Mountain people say they are for it, they are not Sioux so I don't see why that argument would even hold water.

[Goon]

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 06:49 PM, said:

HMMMMM.....can't have it both ways, is that like saying you're honoring someone but that honor is really a smokescreen?
  My people, the Lakota, have all passed resolutions against the name.  Simple as that.  I don't care if the Red Lake or Turtle Mountain people say they are for it, they are not Sioux so I don't see why that argument would even hold water.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I will use color crayons and baby talk to spell it out to you. It means your all over the place. You pick and chose your facts to meet your needs. By the way you brought your veterans status again. I was wondering if you wanted to comment on the article from the Herald opinion page today. If I missed your analysis I appologize to the rest.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/n...on/12938308.htm

He's Lakota and a holy man. I suppose you think he is wrong, misguided. However, he sounds like a credible source and is also from a family full of military heros. I would classify him also as a hero in my book. I might also classified as a elder. The Koren War was about 50 years ago and retired during the Vietnam War.

This post has been edited by Goon: 19 October 2005 - 07:08 PM

[GrahamKracker]

Goon, on Oct 19 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 06:49 PM, said:

HMMMMM.....can't have it both ways, is that like saying you're honoring someone but that honor is really a smokescreen?
  My people, the Lakota, have all passed resolutions against the name.  Simple as that.  I don't care if the Red Lake or Turtle Mountain people say they are for it, they are not Sioux so I don't see why that argument would even hold water.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I will use color crayons and baby talk to spell it out to you. It means your all over the place. You pick and chose your facts to meet your needs. By the way you brought your veterans status again. I was wondering if you wanted to comment on the article from the Herald opinion page today. If I missed your analysis I appologize to the rest.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/n...on/12938308.htm

He's Lakota and a holy man. I suppose you think he is wrong, misguided. However, he sounds like a credible source and is also from a family full of military heros. I would classify him also as a hero in my book. I might also classified as a elder. The Koren War was about 50 years ago and retired during the Vietnam War.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is he really? I think before you type, do your research.

[82SiouxGuy]

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 09:49 PM, said:

Goon, on Oct 19 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 06:49 PM, said:

HMMMMM.....can't have it both ways, is that like saying you're honoring someone but that honor is really a smokescreen?
  My people, the Lakota, have all passed resolutions against the name.  Simple as that.  I don't care if the Red Lake or Turtle Mountain people say they are for it, they are not Sioux so I don't see why that argument would even hold water.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I will use color crayons and baby talk to spell it out to you. It means your all over the place. You pick and chose your facts to meet your needs. By the way you brought your veterans status again. I was wondering if you wanted to comment on the article from the Herald opinion page today. If I missed your analysis I appologize to the rest.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/n...on/12938308.htm

He's Lakota and a holy man. I suppose you think he is wrong, misguided. However, he sounds like a credible source and is also from a family full of military heros. I would classify him also as a hero in my book. I might also classified as a elder. The Koren War was about 50 years ago and retired during the Vietnam War.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is he really? I think before you type, do your research.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"As for myself, I retired from the Air Force after 20 years of service in 1972 and have served as pastor with the Southern Baptists for more than 30 years."

Serving as a Southern Baptist pastor for more than 30 years would qualify as a holy man even though it is not your religion. He served in the military for many years so that should qualify him as a hero unless he was dishonorably discharged. And he may or may not be recognized as an elder to the Lakota, but his age would qualify him as an elder to most of the population. So what would you like us to research? His status as a member of the Lakota tribe?

[GrahamKracker]

82SiouxGuy, on Oct 19 2005, 11:01 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 09:49 PM, said:

Goon, on Oct 19 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 06:49 PM, said:

HMMMMM.....can't have it both ways, is that like saying you're honoring someone but that honor is really a smokescreen?
  My people, the Lakota, have all passed resolutions against the name.  Simple as that.  I don't care if the Red Lake or Turtle Mountain people say they are for it, they are not Sioux so I don't see why that argument would even hold water.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I will use color crayons and baby talk to spell it out to you. It means your all over the place. You pick and chose your facts to meet your needs. By the way you brought your veterans status again. I was wondering if you wanted to comment on the article from the Herald opinion page today. If I missed your analysis I appologize to the rest.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/n...on/12938308.htm

He's Lakota and a holy man. I suppose you think he is wrong, misguided. However, he sounds like a credible source and is also from a family full of military heros. I would classify him also as a hero in my book. I might also classified as a elder. The Koren War was about 50 years ago and retired during the Vietnam War.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is he really? I think before you type, do your research.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"As for myself, I retired from the Air Force after 20 years of service in 1972 and have served as pastor with the Southern Baptists for more than 30 years."

Serving as a Southern Baptist pastor for more than 30 years would qualify as a holy man even though it is not your religion. He served in the military for many years so that should qualify him as a hero unless he was dishonorably discharged. And he may or may not be recognized as an elder to the Lakota, but his age would qualify him as an elder to most of the population. So what would you like us to research? His status as a member of the Lakota tribe?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. For being a Sioux, you sure know nothing about us.

[Sioux-cia]

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 11:07 PM, said:

Exactly.  For being a Sioux, you sure no nothing about us.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe you meant know.

[82SiouxGuy]

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 11:07 PM, said:

82SiouxGuy, on Oct 19 2005, 11:01 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 09:49 PM, said:

Goon, on Oct 19 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 06:49 PM, said:

HMMMMM.....can't have it both ways, is that like saying you're honoring someone but that honor is really a smokescreen?
  My people, the Lakota, have all passed resolutions against the name.  Simple as that.  I don't care if the Red Lake or Turtle Mountain people say they are for it, they are not Sioux so I don't see why that argument would even hold water.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I will use color crayons and baby talk to spell it out to you. It means your all over the place. You pick and chose your facts to meet your needs. By the way you brought your veterans status again. I was wondering if you wanted to comment on the article from the Herald opinion page today. If I missed your analysis I appologize to the rest.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/n...on/12938308.htm

He's Lakota and a holy man. I suppose you think he is wrong, misguided. However, he sounds like a credible source and is also from a family full of military heros. I would classify him also as a hero in my book. I might also classified as a elder. The Koren War was about 50 years ago and retired during the Vietnam War.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is he really? I think before you type, do your research.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"As for myself, I retired from the Air Force after 20 years of service in 1972 and have served as pastor with the Southern Baptists for more than 30 years."

Serving as a Southern Baptist pastor for more than 30 years would qualify as a holy man even though it is not your religion. He served in the military for many years so that should qualify him as a hero unless he was dishonorably discharged. And he may or may not be recognized as an elder to the Lakota, but his age would qualify him as an elder to most of the population. So what would you like us to research? His status as a member of the Lakota tribe?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. For being a Sioux, you sure no nothing about us.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never claimed to know everything about the Sioux nation. After review, I believe that The Rev. Robertson should be referred to as Dakota instead of Lakota. Forgive us for the mistake. This still makes him an enrolled member of a Sioux nation. How do you respond to his comments about UND?

[GrahamKracker]

82SiouxGuy, on Oct 19 2005, 11:33 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 11:07 PM, said:

82SiouxGuy, on Oct 19 2005, 11:01 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 09:49 PM, said:

Goon, on Oct 19 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 06:49 PM, said:

HMMMMM.....can't have it both ways, is that like saying you're honoring someone but that honor is really a smokescreen?
  My people, the Lakota, have all passed resolutions against the name.  Simple as that.  I don't care if the Red Lake or Turtle Mountain people say they are for it, they are not Sioux so I don't see why that argument would even hold water.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I will use color crayons and baby talk to spell it out to you. It means your all over the place. You pick and chose your facts to meet your needs. By the way you brought your veterans status again. I was wondering if you wanted to comment on the article from the Herald opinion page today. If I missed your analysis I appologize to the rest.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/n...on/12938308.htm

He's Lakota and a holy man. I suppose you think he is wrong, misguided. However, he sounds like a credible source and is also from a family full of military heros. I would classify him also as a hero in my book. I might also classified as a elder. The Koren War was about 50 years ago and retired during the Vietnam War.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is he really? I think before you type, do your research.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"As for myself, I retired from the Air Force after 20 years of service in 1972 and have served as pastor with the Southern Baptists for more than 30 years."

Serving as a Southern Baptist pastor for more than 30 years would qualify as a holy man even though it is not your religion. He served in the military for many years so that should qualify him as a hero unless he was dishonorably discharged. And he may or may not be recognized as an elder to the Lakota, but his age would qualify him as an elder to most of the population. So what would you like us to research? His status as a member of the Lakota tribe?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. For being a Sioux, you sure no nothing about us.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never claimed to know everything about the Sioux nation. After review, I believe that The Rev. Robertson should be referred to as Dakota instead of Lakota. Forgive us for the mistake. This still makes him an enrolled member of a Sioux nation. How do you respond to his comments about UND?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After doing some research, I found out I know one of his daughters that went to school here. I have respect for his family, but I can't say I agree with his thinking. As I stated before, let him, he himself, spend some quality time here on campus (by that I mean more than a weekend to watch his kin graduate), then I can guarantee that he will definitely change his mind.

[nodakvindy]

GrahamKracker, on Oct 20 2005, 12:07 AM, said:

82SiouxGuy, on Oct 19 2005, 11:01 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 09:49 PM, said:

Goon, on Oct 19 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 06:49 PM, said:

HMMMMM.....can't have it both ways, is that like saying you're honoring someone but that honor is really a smokescreen?
  My people, the Lakota, have all passed resolutions against the name.  Simple as that.  I don't care if the Red Lake or Turtle Mountain people say they are for it, they are not Sioux so I don't see why that argument would even hold water.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I will use color crayons and baby talk to spell it out to you. It means your all over the place. You pick and chose your facts to meet your needs. By the way you brought your veterans status again. I was wondering if you wanted to comment on the article from the Herald opinion page today. If I missed your analysis I appologize to the rest.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/n...on/12938308.htm

He's Lakota and a holy man. I suppose you think he is wrong, misguided. However, he sounds like a credible source and is also from a family full of military heros. I would classify him also as a hero in my book. I might also classified as a elder. The Koren War was about 50 years ago and retired during the Vietnam War.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is he really? I think before you type, do your research.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"As for myself, I retired from the Air Force after 20 years of service in 1972 and have served as pastor with the Southern Baptists for more than 30 years."

Serving as a Southern Baptist pastor for more than 30 years would qualify as a holy man even though it is not your religion. He served in the military for many years so that should qualify him as a hero unless he was dishonorably discharged. And he may or may not be recognized as an elder to the Lakota, but his age would qualify him as an elder to most of the population. So what would you like us to research? His status as a member of the Lakota tribe?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. For being a Sioux, you sure know nothing about us.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm guessing that GK is referring to the fact that the Rev. Robertson is from the Wahpeton-Sisseton Sioux, who are Dakota rather than Lakota. However in doing so he makes a good point. We are the University of North DAKOTA, not North LAKOTA, and so perhaps we are simply honoring our namesake - the Dakota Sioux, which would imply that in GK's own stated rules, the opinion of the Lakota would mean about as much as the Turtle Mountain Chippewas or the Red Lake Ojibwe. Nothing. Just some food for thought.

[Sioux-cia]

nodakvindy, on Oct 19 2005, 11:39 PM, said:

I'm guessing that GK is referring to the fact that the Rev. Robertson is from the Wahpeton-Sisseton Sioux, who are Dakota rather than Lakota.  However in doing so he makes a good point.  We are the University of North DAKOTA, not North LAKOTA, and so perhaps we are simply honoring our namesake - the Dakota Sioux, which would imply that in GK's own stated rules, the opinion of the Lakota would mean about as much as the Turtle Mountain Chippewas or the Red Lake Ojibwe. Nothing.  Just some food for thought.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love this website. There's always 'food for thought'.

[GrahamKracker]

nodakvindy, on Oct 19 2005, 11:39 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 20 2005, 12:07 AM, said:

82SiouxGuy, on Oct 19 2005, 11:01 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 09:49 PM, said:

Goon, on Oct 19 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 06:49 PM, said:

HMMMMM.....can't have it both ways, is that like saying you're honoring someone but that honor is really a smokescreen?
  My people, the Lakota, have all passed resolutions against the name.  Simple as that.  I don't care if the Red Lake or Turtle Mountain people say they are for it, they are not Sioux so I don't see why that argument would even hold water.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe I will use color crayons and baby talk to spell it out to you. It means your all over the place. You pick and chose your facts to meet your needs. By the way you brought your veterans status again. I was wondering if you wanted to comment on the article from the Herald opinion page today. If I missed your analysis I appologize to the rest.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/n...on/12938308.htm

He's Lakota and a holy man. I suppose you think he is wrong, misguided. However, he sounds like a credible source and is also from a family full of military heros. I would classify him also as a hero in my book. I might also classified as a elder. The Koren War was about 50 years ago and retired during the Vietnam War.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is he really? I think before you type, do your research.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"As for myself, I retired from the Air Force after 20 years of service in 1972 and have served as pastor with the Southern Baptists for more than 30 years."

Serving as a Southern Baptist pastor for more than 30 years would qualify as a holy man even though it is not your religion. He served in the military for many years so that should qualify him as a hero unless he was dishonorably discharged. And he may or may not be recognized as an elder to the Lakota, but his age would qualify him as an elder to most of the population. So what would you like us to research? His status as a member of the Lakota tribe?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. For being a Sioux, you sure know nothing about us.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm guessing that GK is referring to the fact that the Rev. Robertson is from the Wahpeton-Sisseton Sioux, who are Dakota rather than Lakota. However in doing so he makes a good point. We are the University of North DAKOTA, not North LAKOTA, and so perhaps we are simply honoring our namesake - the Dakota Sioux, which would imply that in GK's own stated rules, the opinion of the Lakota would mean about as much as the Turtle Mountain Chippewas or the Red Lake Ojibwe. Nothing. Just some food for thought.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, do your research before your type. The Sioux Nation, aka, the Oceti Sakowin, is comprised of the Dakota, Lakota, and Nakota. All for one, one for all.

[82SiouxGuy]

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 11:38 PM, said:

After doing some research, I found out I know one of his daughters that went to school here.  I have respect for his family, but I can't say I agree with his thinking.  As I stated before, let him, he himself, spend some quality time here on campus (by that I mean more than a weekend to watch his kin graduate), then I can guarantee that he will definitely change his mind.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I doubt that he will spend much time on campus since he is now retired. But, wouldn't you think that some of his many kin would have told him about any problems they had run into, especially serious problems?

[Diggler]

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 11:46 PM, said:

Again, do your research before your type.  The Sioux Nation, aka, the Oceti Sakowin, is comprised of the Dakota, Lakota, and Nakota.  All for one, one for all.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But since it is the University of North Dakota why should we worry about what Lakota and Nakota say? I mean according to you, anyone who is Sioux doesn't matter. So since we are in North Dakota, why should anyone but the Dakota matter?

Also you are still here, how come? Don't you have more important things to be doing?

[GrahamKracker]

Diggler, on Oct 19 2005, 11:52 PM, said:

GrahamKracker, on Oct 19 2005, 11:46 PM, said:

Again, do your research before your type.  The Sioux Nation, aka, the Oceti Sakowin, is comprised of the Dakota, Lakota, and Nakota.  All for one, one for all.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But since it is the University of North Dakota why should we worry about what Lakota and Nakota say? I mean according to you, anyone who is Sioux doesn't matter. So since we are in North Dakota, why should anyone but the Dakota matter?

Also you are still here, how come? Don't you have more important things to be doing?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You also forgot the "fighting sioux" part. SIOUX comprises more than just the Dakota people.

[Diggler]

But we're only honoring the Dakota, not the other tribes. So the other tribes don't matter.