Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S. 150 Years Ago

[sioux_xuois]

Based on my experince living on two different reservations, I have to agree that reservations are not helpful to Native Americans. There is wide spread entitlement amongst reservation Indians. "I'm an enrolled member of .... you have to give me.... you owe me because I'm Indian...." I have dozens of examples of reservation Indians wanting something without giving anything in return. When you give something to someone over and over again and expect nothing from that person, the value of what you give them is ZERO. We have seen this in career welfare recipients. At least some states are now limiting the amount of time someone can stay on welfare, long enough to get on their feet, and then they are required to get a J O B if they want to continue to get supplemental welfare assistance.

What's done is done. The past is the past. It can't be changed. My opinion is to phase out reservations, phase out government programs, phase out tribal governments, etc. The land should remain in Indian hands but individuals should be allowed to own the land and what's on it. They should be responsible for it as well. Conditions on reservations is sad. There is no healthy reason to preserve reservations.

How long did you live on the reservations? A couple weeks? A couple months? A couple years? Even if you spent 5 years on a reservation you probably couldn't understand it all. It could be partly because you are an outsider, it could be because your view is already skewed, and I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean that you have your interpretation of what everything should be already.

Yeah, I know Kevin Costner could do it successfully, but that was a movie. Even those that have not grown up on the reservations are not a part of whatever inner social circles exist. So to think you can "feel" how they feel is absurd in my opinion.

As for getting rid of the reservations. In my opinion, all that would do is change a couple signs, demolish some casinos, and cause even more disorganization to a people that have been screwed over by a government that promised to take care of them. Everyone makes it sound like doing away with reservations are going to solve anything. Unemployment will still be high. Alcoholism, suicidal rates, will still be the highest in the nation. Do you think that the State governments are going to do any better than the Federal/tribal governments already in place? no. That is not the answer. and no. I don't know the answer. In Sioux they say Ceyakiya yo. and that means to pray.

[Vegas_Sioux]

We in my statement is the United States of America no one else owns this land this isn't Indian terriory or Dakota Territory or even France (they owned the RR Valley) This is the USA and if they don't want any part of the USA then there is Mexico to the south or Canada to the north its the American way or no way. This seceding BS was done before remember the Civil War.

The only problem with your statement is they have always declared the native lands as soverign to the US and that is why all juristication is federal some of the more well to do reservations like the one SE of the twin cities has a US consulate office.

[redwing77]

How long did you live on the reservations? A couple weeks? A couple months? A couple years? Even if you spent 5 years on a reservation you probably couldn't understand it all. It could be partly because you are an outsider, it could be because your view is already skewed, and I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean that you have your interpretation of what everything should be already.

Yeah, I know Kevin Costner could do it successfully, but that was a movie. Even those that have not grown up on the reservations are not a part of whatever inner social circles exist. So to think you can "feel" how they feel is absurd in my opinion.

As for getting rid of the reservations. In my opinion, all that would do is change a couple signs, demolish some casinos, and cause even more disorganization to a people that have been screwed over by a government that promised to take care of them. Everyone makes it sound like doing away with reservations are going to solve anything. Unemployment will still be high. Alcoholism, suicidal rates, will still be the highest in the nation. Do you think that the State governments are going to do any better than the Federal/tribal governments already in place? no. That is not the answer. and no. I don't know the answer. In Sioux they say Ceyakiya yo. and that means to pray.

I'll let Sioux-cia respond to the questioning of her knowledge of reservation life.

But what I will say is: What do you expect from the U.S. government? They can't make Native Americans graduate high school. They can't make Native Americans stop drinking alcohol. They can't force Native Americans to adopt a means of ambition and motivation that would help them succeed in American society. Native Americans aren't the only ethnicity that suffers from these things. This is a key facet to the entitlist movement. They think that their societal problems all come from the government. Well, alcoholism was around before the reservations.

The fact of the matter is that no amount of funding. No amount of grovelling and asking forgiveness by the U.S. government is going to get the Native Americans out of the hole they find themselves in. They are going to have to swallow their pride (or at least some of it) and adapt to the American method of doing things to get themselves ahead. It may mean that they can no longer afford to live in massive communities of NA folks. It may mean that they'll have to stop skipping school to take grandma to the doctor. But number one on the list of sacrifices is that they'll have to give up thinking that, because the NA society is rather socialistic in nature that the U.S. should reciprocate likewise. The United States, for good or for bad, is a captiolist country. That means the opposite of "All for one and one for all." It is the fundamental disconnect between our ways of thought and NA ways of thought.

Unfortunately, there is no general solution. But there is a way out if they are willing to make sacrifices. So far, those who have are considered (as Means put it) to be "Vichy Indians" or "Hang around the fort Indians" or, blandly, those who have "given up their heritage." I wonder about those who have left the reservation and not returned. Did they truly give up their heritage or did they move on and adapted their heritage to their new life?

[Chewey]

How long did you live on the reservations? A couple weeks? A couple months? A couple years? Even if you spent 5 years on a reservation you probably couldn't understand it all. It could be partly because you are an outsider, it could be because your view is already skewed, and I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean that you have your interpretation of what everything should be already.

Yeah, I know Kevin Costner could do it successfully, but that was a movie. Even those that have not grown up on the reservations are not a part of whatever inner social circles exist. So to think you can "feel" how they feel is absurd in my opinion.

As for getting rid of the reservations. In my opinion, all that would do is change a couple signs, demolish some casinos, and cause even more disorganization to a people that have been screwed over by a government that promised to take care of them. Everyone makes it sound like doing away with reservations are going to solve anything. Unemployment will still be high. Alcoholism, suicidal rates, will still be the highest in the nation. Do you think that the State governments are going to do any better than the Federal/tribal governments already in place? no. That is not the answer. and no. I don't know the answer. In Sioux they say Ceyakiya yo. and that means to pray.

In a word, YES. I know that the state governments could do NO worse than the entities charitably referred to as "tribal governments." Oh, and there would be a lot more transparency too so there would not be near the corruption or petty feuds as is the case on every reservation. Pray?!?!??!? WTF?!?!?!? While I agree that prayer is a good thing and can't hurt, how about adding some accountability of tribal governments and how about adding personal action/responsibility? If you're fully capable and sitting in a cesspool, all you have to do is get up and walk out of it. You don't pray that Captain Kirk beams you out of it up to his ship and you don't pray that God lifts you out of it. At one time, Germans, English, French, Chinese, India Indians, etc were all like American Indians in that they were tribal and nomadic. They, as a whole, have largely made the quantum leap to "white" success and they were able to retain a lot of their heritage. Look at Quebec for a modern example. Look at Pella, IA for a modern example with respect to the Dutch. The problem with Russell Means and people of his sour ilk is that they cling to a past existence that is no longer possible or practical. It's one thing to retain your heritage. It's quite another to reject all modern avenues to success and thumb your nose at the whole country. Maybe Russell can design a time machine? That's the only way what he wants is going to happen.

[MafiaMan]

But I Love the Trapper's Kettle. Can we at least keep that.

I'll start negotiating with Mr. Means as soon as I can.

[MafiaMan]

And Belfield's DQ makes the best chocolate covered strawberry blizzard anywhere or at least that side of the Little Missouri.

Sheesh, first you want Trapper's Kettle, now you want the DQ. This'll be a tough sell, but perhaps if I tell Mr. Means that we'll take scuzzy South Heart off his hands, he'll accept the deal.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

The problem with Russell Means and people of his sour ilk is that they cling to a past existence that is no longer possible or practical. It's one thing to retain your heritage. It's quite another to reject all modern avenues to success and thumb your nose at the whole country.

Ah, but what IS possible (and actually works in the Western world of the 20th-21st century) is to keep claiming victim status as well as demanding money from those people who conquered-er, I mean "victimized and oppressed" you and your people.

The rejection of the avenues to success generally resulted in the extinction of cultures in the past. Lately its more like the people who were not keeping up are celebrated and/or exaulted.

[redwing77]

Ah, but what IS possible (and actually works in the Western world of the 20th-21st century) is to keep claiming victim status as well as demanding money from those people who conquered-er, I mean "victimized and oppressed" you and your people.

The rejection of the avenues to success generally resulted in the extinction of cultures in the past. Lately its more like the people who were not keeping up are celebrated and/or exaulted.

What do you know, Chief, you discovered Jesse Jackson's MO.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

What do you know, Chief, you discovered Jesse Jackson's MO.

I can hardly claim to be the first person to decide that Jesse has a bit of a credibility issue. Hey, anyone here enjoy a cold Budweiser now and again? Did you know that Bud was entirely discriminatory and prejudiced according to Jackson? But then, Jesse suddenly had a revelation and decided that they weren't so bad after all? And just about the time of his revelation his son (Yusef, not the congressman) was "allowed" to purchase the highly profitable River North Bud distributorship here in Chicago? Yes, if you drink a A-B product in most of Chicago's tourist/convention neighborhood bars, the person serving that to you is the son of the famous activist.

And totally off the subject: Jesse and his son (the congressman) are on opposite sides of the Democratic presidential primaries. One is for Hillary, the other for Obama. Probably makes for some lively debates, but also ensures that someone in the family will be friends with the winner.